Benetti speaks...

[Harry Chappas]

3 minutes ago, pcq said:

Not to worry when you have Gord Gold Beckham at the ready. 

They have to go with Gordon Beckham because Stone gets a good amount of vacation time.  The list of good color commentators is not that long, watch any sport and you soon realize how bad they are.

Benetti had a option that the club picked up.  Benetti is asking the team to make concessions for him to broadcast other games.  The White Sox have to fill these gaps and rework Kasper's deal when he moves to television and find replacements that they have to pay.  I do not think Benetti can make as much money doing the national stuff to leave but it makes the White Sox position more difficult when he is missing so much. 

You would think the White Sox would be more accommodating but they are the White Sox.  There is a middle ground here in this discussion other than the White Sox fucked up again.

I think Benetti stays as there ae more options doing Sox games than other sports in the spring and summer but I think it is worked out much differently.

If Jason needs to miss 20 games that is 12% of the season that is not insignificant.  

What happens if Jason has a FOX game on a Saturday in September and Sox game the following day and his flight is cancelled?  There ae logistical aspects to this other than look at the cheap White Sox again. 

[Balta1701]

18 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

They have to go with Gordon Beckham because Stone gets a good amount of vacation time.  The list of good color commentators is not that long, watch any sport and you soon realize how bad they are.

Benetti had a option that the club picked up.  Benetti is asking the team to make concessions for him to broadcast other games.  The White Sox have to fill these gaps and rework Kasper's deal when he moves to television and find replacements that they have to pay.  I do not think Benetti can make as much money doing the national stuff to leave but it makes the White Sox position more difficult when he is missing so much. 

You would think the White Sox would be more accommodating but they are the White Sox.  There is a middle ground here in this discussion other than the White Sox fucked up again.

I think Benetti stays as there ae more options doing Sox games than other sports in the spring and summer but I think it is worked out much differently.

If Jason needs to miss 20 games that is 12% of the season that is not insignificant.  

What happens if Jason has a FOX game on a Saturday in September and Sox game the following day and his flight is cancelled?  There ae logistical aspects to this other than look at the cheap White Sox again. 

You’re right those are issues that do need to be dealt with.

On the other hand, how many quality young TV guys are there that won’t receive any national interest in broadcasting something else? There’s half a year when they could be doing basketball or football, for example. Didn’t Jason do a “stat loaded” broadcast for the college football championship a few weeks ago or was that a different game? I’m sure I had one of those on recently.

He really is good at his job and people recognize this. That is a good thing for the White Sox, employing a guy who is good at his job and who will be around for years. The fact that Fox wants him doing games is a testament to this.

Employing people who are good at their job makes the whole white Sox organization better, it helps build the brand and it’s another way to bring national exposure to this franchise. Presumably it also makes Nationwide insurance a bunch of money too. One sacrifice of that is losing him for some games, but the gain of that could be having him broadcast the World Series in a few years. How many of the most well known broadcasters for teams had arrangements like this, where they did Big Games for the national networks on the weekend and were available the rest of the season? I’d say many of them.

If you don’t want a guy who has demand from Fox, you can find that, by going with worse broadcasters. This may save money in the short term, but in the long term it again sacrifices a chance to build a following in exchange for a quick buck. The good news is there’s no other instance I can think of where the White Sox have behaved that way, otherwise I’d be shaking my head saying “here we go again.”

[Chick Mercedes]

It’s just, so unnecessary. Yet we have to be taken there yet again. The rest of the conversation is fair enough. But that’s not the story.

[Harry Chappas]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You’re right those are issues that do need to be dealt with.

On the other hand, how many quality young TV guys are there that won’t receive any national interest in broadcasting something else? There’s half a year when they could be doing basketball or football, for example. Didn’t Jason do a “stat loaded” broadcast for the college football championship a few weeks ago or was that a different game? I’m sure I had one of those on recently.

He really is good at his job and people recognize this. That is a good thing for the White Sox, employing a guy who is good at his job and who will be around for years. The fact that Fox wants him doing games is a testament to this.

Employing people who are good at their job makes the whole white Sox organization better, it helps build the brand and it’s another way to bring national exposure to this franchise. Presumably it also makes Nationwide insurance a bunch of money too. One sacrifice of that is losing him for some games, but the gain of that could be having him broadcast the World Series in a few years. How many of the most well known broadcasters for teams had arrangements like this, where they did Big Games for the national networks on the weekend and were available the rest of the season? I’d say many of them.

If you don’t want a guy who has demand from Fox, you can find that, by going with worse broadcasters. This may save money in the short term, but in the long term it again sacrifices a chance to build a following in exchange for a quick buck. The good news is there’s no other instance I can think of where the White Sox have behaved that way, otherwise I’d be shaking my head saying “here we go again.”

You ae 100% correct, the White Sox are very good at pissing away good talent.  The loyalty thing seems to go out the window in certain cases and this is one time where I thought it would come into play for the good.  My hope is that the White Sox see it clearer and the next agreement is more smooth.  

My hope is that Jason has exploded and that is the issue here and they need to figure it out.

Brooks Boyer seems to have gotten really bad at his job lately. 

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, reiks12 said:

Wow.. 

They have to start exploring options on trading Anderson as early as the deadline.  Have to over in the cheaper and more promising Montgomery anyway.

Giolito's obviously as good as gone. 

Moncada is going to have to be traded for 30-50 cents on the dollar if he rebounds the first three months of the season.  The visions of him being the 2019 or even 2021 version with the Sox are long gone.

Grandal, same thing as Moncada...although there's more obvious heir-apparent at catcher (Carlos Perez I guess), like Burger for third.

Have to reposition for competing in 2024 after bringing the payroll down significantly.  Hendriks and Clevinger being stuck on the roster makes all these moves even more likely.

Have to cut out all the cancers to save the patient...well, obviously Lucas is a good guy and not responsible for the situation he now finds himself in.  Try to find a way to deal him to the West Coast.

If they do those things, feel more optimistic Luis Robert might be able to turn things around...and he's really the key player in any hope for avoiding a complete rebuild, along with Cease to a lesser extent.

Summary:  Use TA7, Giolito and Graveman and/or Lopez to start building up prospect capital.

Dump Moncada and Grandal for whatever you can get back in savings or prospect capital.  Give Montgomery and Colas time to grow and hit ground running in 2024.

[Greg Hibbard]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

They have to start exploring options on trading Anderson as early as the deadline.  Have to over in the cheaper and more promising Montgomery anyway.

Giolito's obviously as good as gone. 

Moncada is going to have to be traded for 30-50 cents on the dollar if he rebounds the first three months of the season.  The visions of him being the 2019 or even 2021 version with the Sox are long gone.

Grandal, same thing as Moncada...although there's more obvious heir-apparent at catcher (Carlos Perez I guess), like Burger for third.

Have to reposition for competing in 2024 after bringing the payroll down significantly.  Hendriks and Clevinger being stuck on the roster makes all these moves even more likely.

Have to cut out all the cancers to save the patient...well, obviously Lucas is a good guy and not responsible for the situation he now finds himself in.  Try to find a way to deal him to the West Coast.

If they do those things, feel more optimistic Luis Robert might be able to turn things around...and he's really the key player in any hope for avoiding a complete rebuild, along with Cease to a lesser extent.

Summary:  Use TA7, Giolito and Graveman and/or Lopez to start building up prospect capital.

Dump Moncada and Grandal for whatever you can get back in savings or prospect capital.  Give Montgomery and Colas time to grow and hit ground running in 2024.

Why on earth would you trust this franchise to make these decisions and/or moves correctly? Until there is new ownership and a new front office, they won’t do the right thing with anything. Not prospects, not veterans, not trades, not drafts, nothing. 

My sincere advice to all White Sox fans is to save your energy for better things. There is no patient to save until Reinsdorf is dead.

[GREEDY]

Honestly?

My read is the Sox had an option on Benetti and he was likely asking for more freedom to not do his main job AND still get paid, possibly even a raise.

I hate the organization as much as the next guy, but the Sox had an option, they exercised it, and Jason wants time off from his original agreement, to go work for another company.  I'm sure that won't be simple for any club to sort through. 

You don't need to be a #SoxMath wiz to do the math here. 

 

[caulfield12]

Just now, Greg Hibbard said:

Why on earth would you trust this franchise to make these decisions and/or moves correctly? Until there is new ownership and a new front office, they won’t do the right thing with anything. Not prospects, not veterans, not trades, not drafts, nothing. 

My sincere advice to all White Sox fans is to save your energy for better things. There is no patient to save until Reinsdorf is dead.

Sure, but decisions on Anderson, Giolito and Moncada have to be made in the next 6-18 months whether they want to or not.

Grandal is already a sunk cost.

Hendriks is complicated because they're on the hook for him longer term and they could get immediate returns on Lopez, Graveman and possibly Bummer to rebuild for 2024.

Finally, would at least explore an extension with Lopez, but Sox unlikely to blow him away with an offer in their precarious financial state.

[shago]

12 hours ago, JoeC said:

Yeah, definitely not a positive read.

When I see frustrations by the front- line talent met with "that's how we do things here" by management... the only thing i can think of is that "the way we do things here" sounds shitty.

Sounds like the obvious question is "what if the way we've always done things is wrong?"

Team performance since Jerry has owned the team .... case and point

[Bossanoveralls]

11 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

https://www.wsiforumstoo.com/74118-the-state-of-the-sox

I spoke with six sources for the story all connected in a professional way to the franchise

 

I'm rethinking my decision to buy mlb.tv this year, yet again.

I am as big a fan of Stone & Benetti as the next guy. But the next guy's fandom has it's limitations.

[Greg Hibbard]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Sure, but decisions on Anderson, Giolito and Moncada have to be made in the next 6-18 months whether they want to or not.

Grandal is already a sunk cost.

Hendriks is complicated because they're on the hook for him longer term and they could get immediate returns on Lopez, Graveman and possibly Bummer to rebuild for 2024.

Finally, would at least explore an extension with Lopez, but Sox unlikely to blow him away with an offer in their precarious financial state.

And those decisions will be made incorrectly. 

[Chisoxfn]

I kind of agree - seems odd for Jason to be out in the media at this point after everything is done. But whole thing was kind of odd.  Either way - in terms of dysfunction - this is the least of the Sox problems (unfortunately).  

[Tnetennba]

I get that it is probably difficult to find quality commentators to fill on a part time basis.  But FFS they can't do better than Gordon fucking Beckham?  I just don't get the fondness for him.  He sucked here as a player, really offers nothing notable from a baseball perspective, and he is down right awful on air.  There have to be talented people looking to break into the industry that would jump at a shot to be on air.  I get that is probably difficult for one's schedule, but come on!

[JoshPR]

I admire Jason for this determination and not letting his condition stop him. But I wouldn't shed a tear if he moves on. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

https://www.wsiforumstoo.com/74118-the-state-of-the-sox

I spoke with six sources for the story all connected in a professional way to the franchise

 

Enjoyed the read, not saying anything is not true or made up by you, but this part is clearly bullshit:

“Wintrust offered a much better deal than Guaranteed Rate but part of what Wintrust wanted is the name had to be changed back to Comiskey Park and Jerry Reinsdorf didn’t like that at all. He also wasn’t told some of the details in the agreement that may have made a difference had he knew.”
 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Enjoyed the read, not saying anything is not true or made up by you, but this part is clearly bullshit:

“Wintrust offered a much better deal than Guaranteed Rate but part of what Wintrust wanted is the name had to be changed back to Comiskey Park and Jerry Reinsdorf didn’t like that at all. He also wasn’t told some of the details in the agreement that may have made a difference had he knew.”
 

All I can tell you is I heard this same refrain from multiple people.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

47 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

All I can tell you is I heard this same refrain from multiple people.

That wintrust wanted to spend a ton of money to rename a stadium an old name that has nothing to do with them?

That just makes no sense. Given the point of naming rights is advertising and getting eyeballs, there's a reason no one has won naming rights to a stadium and called it something unrelated to them.

Businesses just don't operate that way.

[JoeC]

18 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

That wintrust wanted to spend a ton of money to rename a stadium an old name that has nothing to do with them?

That just makes no sense. Given the point of naming rights is advertising and getting eyeballs, there's a reason no one has won naming rights to a stadium and called it something unrelated to them.

Businesses just don't operate that way.

Devil's advocate take:
Could be a "Wintrust Field at Comiskey Park" sort of thing. Like "Oriole Park at Camden Yards."

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

37 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Devil's advocate take:
Could be a "Wintrust Field at Comiskey Park" sort of thing. Like "Oriole Park at Camden Yards."

But oriole Park and Camden yards are not brands who bought naming rights. Camden is the street and the name the governor wanted and oriole Park is self explained and the name the team wanted.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[JoeC]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

But oriole Park and Camden yards are not brands who bought naming rights. Camden is the street and the name the governor wanted and oriole Park is self explained and the name the team wanted.

So you're saying that corporate sponsors cannot adopt that style of naming?

[JoeC]

Plus, from a corporate image standpoint, imagine being the sponsor who resurrected a "long-beloved classic name" as part of its naming rights.

"Look! We're sponsoring the White Sox, and we're bringing back the 'Comiskey' name! We're awesome!"

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Plus, from a corporate image standpoint, imagine being the sponsor who resurrected a "long-beloved classic name" as part of its naming rights.

"Look! We're sponsoring the White Sox, and we're bringing back the 'Comiskey' name! We're awesome!"

Again. It's never happened. 

Problem is you're thinking like a die hard white sox fan and not like a CEO trying to elevate brand awareness. 

Also, why would Reinsdorf care if they called it at Comiskey Park. It was comiskey the first 10 years of his ownership. He sold the rights to the name to make more money. Other teams were doing it. If someone wanted to pay him more, why would he say no? 

[JoeC]

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Again. It's never happened. 

So it's never going to happen?

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Problem is you're thinking like a die hard white sox fan and not like a CEO trying to elevate brand awareness. 

Well, wouldn't putting your brand name on the ballpark be a form of elevating brand awareness? I'm confused as to why "brandname Field at Comiskey Park" spoken out loud 15 times a broadcast wouldn't accomplish that goal.

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Also, why would Reinsdorf care if they called it at Comiskey Park. It was comiskey the first 10 years of his ownership. He sold the rights to the name to make more money. Other teams were doing it. If someone wanted to pay him more, why would he say no? 

Never said he did. Only said that, as a corporation, I could see their strategy to try to earn goodwill points with a fan base by restoring part of the historical legacy name. If I stated anything otherwise about Reinsdorf in this regard, I apologize.

Edited February 3, 2023 by JoeC

[ThirdGen]

While it is possible that Wintrust offered more than GR, there is no chance they wouldn't have insisted on naming it Wintrust Field, Stadium, whatever.  The majority of current Sox fans have no first hand memory of Comiskey Park.  The nostalgia value would last five minutes. Companies pay for naming rights so it is repeated on TV, radio, printed on everything, over and over.  Even Wintrust Field at Comiskey Park woudn't fly since Wintrust would be afraid it would be abbreviated to Comiskey Park.  And JR turning down more money just to avoid the Comiskey name? Our JR????

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

Devil's advocate take:
Could be a "Wintrust Field at Comiskey Park" sort of thing. Like "Oriole Park at Camden Yards."

You are exactly correct. And without going into details because ethically I can't let's just say from what I was told some of the individuals involved on the White Sox side had family interests with the Guaranteed Rate Company. It appeared to be a conflict of interest and JR (again according to my sources) was never told the specifics.