BP introduces Range Defense Added and TA

[bmags]

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/80209/prospectus-feature-introducing-range-defense-added/
 

Pretty interesting and probably where we’d all place TA. He can get to a lot…yet it doesn’t often lead to outs. Or often enough at least.

Would love to see where Jose Valentin would have been when I have a chance to look.

Really thought TA would find consistency with reps, but also feel like if he was on the cardinals he’d be the best shortstop in the league.

[fathom]

Too bad no one ever taught him to plant and throw or dive for a ball.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Moncada pretty high on the list behind only Arenado at 3rd.

[bmags]

This is my favorite stuff from BP. Highly recommend bookmarking in the future as we discuss defensive metrics for players. I had previously thought FRAA was superior for infield, OAA for outfield. Looks like DRS was much superior for infield the last half decade. Great stuff by Judge.

 

I think most shocking thing to me is Schoop had out of this world metrics for 2022 at 2b in OAA. This just has him 3rd, but rates Torres very highly. Pretty interesting stuff. Very unfavorable to Segura at 2b which is interesting.

[GREEDY]

Spent some time on this and my conclusion is....

The org missed again not making TA an OF.  

The elimination of the shift MIGHT mean his next contract is at SS again, but had it not the move would have been a slam dunk. 

Moving Tim to a corner outfield this offseason would have really really opened up the possibilities.  It might not be too late.... some really good defensive middles still on the market.

 

 

[bmags]

9 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

Spent some time on this and my conclusion is....

The org missed again not making TA an OF.  

The elimination of the shift MIGHT mean his next contract is at SS again, but had it not the move would have been a slam dunk. 

Moving Tim to a corner outfield this offseason would have really really opened up the possibilities.  It might not be too late.... some really good defensive middles still on the market.

 

 

My response to this is to take a gander at who is 2nd best in DRP at 2B.

I cannot imagine him being there had he stayed on the sox.

Hahn's entire tenure as GM has seen terrible defense overall and very little progressive improvement in defense with the exception of Jose becoming tolerable and Moncada's journey at third. 

Meanwhile a bunch of guys have left that were deemed hopeless and became good to great (Semien, Narvaez).

I'm sure some part of this is scouting (drafting 100 overweight corner ballplayers), but hard not to notice how an org like As, Cardinals and now cubs can so routinely ratchet up top defenses from what they have.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

53 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

Spent some time on this and my conclusion is....

The org missed again not making TA an OF.  

The elimination of the shift MIGHT mean his next contract is at SS again, but had it not the move would have been a slam dunk. 

Moving Tim to a corner outfield this offseason would have really really opened up the possibilities.  It might not be too late.... some really good defensive middles still on the market.

 

 

TA would not be playing SS for a great organization.  He'd be in the OF or 2B

[GREEDY]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

My response to this is to take a gander at who is 2nd best in DRP at 2B.

 

Not sure where you got 2B from.  

I would have moved him to the OF.  LF would have lowered the risk of a flop but that ship has sailed.  

Getting in the SS sweepstakes would have been fun but even just adding Iglesias/Simmons and shuffling them with our pre-arb middles, signing a proper RF (instead of Benintendi) and using TA in LF would have given us a chance for an elite defense over night for the same money we've spent.  Could have had above average defenders at 6 of 8 spots instead of the 3 we will likely have on opening day.    

[PolishPrince34]

Luis Robert all the way on the bottom.

[bmags]

4 hours ago, GREEDY said:

Not sure where you got 2B from.  

I would have moved him to the OF.  LF would have lowered the risk of a flop but that ship has sailed.  

Getting in the SS sweepstakes would have been fun but even just adding Iglesias/Simmons and shuffling them with our pre-arb middles, signing a proper RF (instead of Benintendi) and using TA in LF would have given us a chance for an elite defense over night for the same money we've spent.  Could have had above average defenders at 6 of 8 spots instead of the 3 we will likely have on opening day.    

I'm pointing you to the 2nd baseman on the list named Marcus Semien who was inconsistent at 2b and written off by the sox only to become one of the better defensive infielders under ron washington. 

TA's numbers indicate a player who can get to anything but has lacked growth in technique. The sox failing to convert that is on them. His range may have provided the same emptiness in the outfield, while also providing only 10 HR power which is much better to eat at short.

[Eminor3rd]

5 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

TA would not be playing SS for a great organization.  He'd be in the OF or 2B

Or that great organization may have helped develop into a legit SS when he was younger. The White Sox player development strategy is essentially “draft guys that are so physically gifted that they become major leaguers despite their flaws,” and TA is one of the success stories, but that doesn’t mean that he was actually able to reach his ceiling. 

[maxjusttyped]

20 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Moncada pretty high on the list behind only Arenado at 3rd.

Imagine how good his defense would be if he wasn't so lazy ?

or whatever the narrative is

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

2 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

Or that great organization may have helped develop into a legit SS when he was younger. The White Sox player development strategy is essentially “draft guys that are so physically gifted that they become major leaguers despite their flaws,” and TA is one of the success stories, but that doesn’t mean that he was actually able to reach his ceiling. 

I mean sure, I am more speaking about his talent level right now (no changes).

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, PolishPrince34 said:

Luis Robert all the way on the bottom.

I scanned the list for Sox players and besides Moncada the only ones I saw on the list before 150 were ex Sox. Pollock in LF, Andrus at SS and Cueto was only the 2nd pitcher listed close to 140th.

Robert being at the bottom is just indicative of  just a terrible all around season for him. He needs to be healthier and become what we all thought he could be which was the best player on the Sox on both sides of the ball.

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I scanned the list for Sox players and besides Moncada the only ones I saw on the list before 150 were ex Sox. Pollock in LF, Andrus at SS and Cueto was only the 2nd pitcher listed close to 140th.

Robert being at the bottom is just indicative of  just a terrible all around season for him. He needs to be healthier and become what we all thought he could be which was the best player on the Sox on both sides of the ball.

The other possibility is that this is expressing what his body can do now. When he had the injury in 2021, there was a major worry we discussed a lot at the time that this sort of injury could cost him explosiveness long term. Having his sprint speed drop and defense get worse last year could also be a result of a permanent loss of speed and quickness due to that injury.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

The other possibility is that this is expressing what his body can do now. When he had the injury in 2021, there was a major worry we discussed a lot at the time that this sort of injury could cost him explosiveness long term. Having his sprint speed drop and defense get worse last year could also be a result of a permanent loss of speed and quickness due to that injury.

It could be and I've expressed the same thought on more than one occasion .But do you recall what he did after he came back from that right hip flexor tear surgery ? He hit  the best of his career and his fielding and running while not on par with 2020 weren't as bad as last year. That leads me to believe it's not so much the hip flexor ,though that certainly plays a role since he has lost a step and is no longer among the fastest players in the league, but the dizzy spells he had which led to a few games where he looked lost in the OF that probably dragged his numbers down.

Just a cursory look at OAA say 2021 his OAA was 6 in 171 attempts,  5 in 2021 in 180 attempts and 3 in 2022 in 234 attempts.  This could be partially sample size related but it does show that even with more attempts in 2022 he was not as good as in 2021. Plus he did play 1 handed in the OF also when his hitting took a dive. He probably was more tentative on defense with the wrist injury also.