caulfield12 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: The Raves on Romy comment should tell you everything you need to know unless u mean they get Andrus on MLB minimum or minor league contract. I honestly think there won't be any more MLB contracts of more than $1M spent until there's Liam insurance money or a recoup of Clevinger's salary. I also think JR should hold himself accountable for screwing up the rebuild with the TLR hire and pony up the dough ! But JR is never wrong. The TLR hire was because he wanted to win so bad and because he's so baseball smart. ??. He can always tell himself that it was injuries and regression that had nothing to do with TLR and to a certain extent he might be right. If the Sox do better this year just by staying healthy he'll be vindicated. It wasn't Tony it was injuries. The Benintendi move was likely a replacement of Abreu and Colas will be considered a natural addition. If they do worse he'll be vindicated. See ! Almost the same team with worse results . It wasn't Tony ! There's almost no scenario where JR can be wrong. He's put himself in a win win situation. There's only one way JR can lose and that's if they have just as many injuries/problems and still win. Then Grifol looks like the genius and TLR the villain. Andrus averaged (4.4/4 seasons) 1.1 fWAR the last four seasons, prior to 2023's anomaly. He's another year older, too. We have seen this show, dating all the way back to Adam Dunn through Hahn's "regime" and the currently albatross Grandal transaction. We've seen the same exact regression from the likes of AJ Pollock, LaRoche, Melky Cabrera, Leury Garcia and more than likely Andrew Benintendi as he ages and gets away from the protection of that NYY line-up. His track record over the last 4-5 years definitely doesn't warrant a $75 million "buy high" deal, in the same way that offering Alex Gordon (yet another Royal) almost that same exact amount would have been ruinous had he signed. (The only Royal we could/should have even considered in the slightest was/is Sal Perez, fwiw. An actual clubhouse leader, that would be nice...I guess?) We will see the same exact regression from Seby Zavala, for example (Sox wouldn't know a catching prospect if Tim Anderson walked in off the community college basketball court and threw a bullet 93 MPH from home to 2nd base)...the Mets certainly experienced it with McCann with the overly-generous contract they rewarded him with. We're hoping for fool's gold from 2-4 middle infielders who have proven exactly NOTHING in the major leagues...almost making me rue the loss of Danny Mendick. ALMOST. We offer all the wrong contracts to everyone under the sun, but can't even make a token effort to retain Carlos Rodon or offer him a QO, then watch him become the most highly-desired LHP starting pitcher in the entire FA market one year later. BRILLIANT STUFF. Oh, and we misdiagnosed Escobar to bring in one of the worst, most non-inspired deadline acquisitions in all of White Sox history, Cesar Hernandez. And let's not even start on Kimbrel's woeful series of events that acquisition triggered....and Hahn was miraculously saved because Pollock was willing to take away less money to get out of Dodge and plant himself in a clubhouse with a genuine winning culture that wasn't already poisoned by almost neglectful levels of supervision and intervention over the last two years from a VETERAN coaching staff. Edited February 16, 2023 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Teams are able to now place guys on the 60-day IL. Good time to place someone you know may not be back until May at earliest like Hendriks (doubt he would be back sooner) and/or Crochet knowing that 60-day stint would be done mid-April and to add another player from free agency if you need to, whether it be as SP or bullpen arm. Or even bench piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Let's ask this simplistic question... When's the White Sox even did something good/positive, with the possible exceptions of being overly generous with Benintendi and HOPING that Grifol has the same impact on the team (even if it turns out to be an anomalous blip like 2012 for the Chicago White Sox under Ventura, and later evaporates) ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 37 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Teams are able to now place guys on the 60-day IL. Good time to place someone you know may not be back until May at earliest like Hendriks (doubt he would be back sooner) and/or Crochet knowing that 60-day stint would be done mid-April and to add another player from free agency if you need to, whether it be as SP or bullpen arm. Or even bench piece. Honest question I should know the answer to, but I am not 100% sure - if you were to place Liam and/or Crochet on 60 day IL today, are they available 60 days from today or 60 days from Opening Day? I would assume 60 days from today, but not 100% confident in that. Hahn seemed optimistic on Crochet yesterday, and also seemed to hint towards Liam being available at some point. Sounds like Liam will be in camp a good amount, but they won't give any sort of timeline until closer to Opening Day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Honest question I should know the answer to, but I am not 100% sure - if you were to place Liam and/or Crochet on 60 day IL today, are they available 60 days from today or 60 days from Opening Day? I would assume 60 days from today, but not 100% confident in that. Hahn seemed optimistic on Crochet yesterday, and also seemed to hint towards Liam being available at some point. Sounds like Liam will be in camp a good amount, but they won't give any sort of timeline until closer to Opening Day. I'm like 95% sure it would be 60 days from today. If not, then yeah, neither would be options for the 60 day (right now at least). Edited February 16, 2023 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 17 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Honest question I should know the answer to, but I am not 100% sure - if you were to place Liam and/or Crochet on 60 day IL today, are they available 60 days from today or 60 days from Opening Day? I would assume 60 days from today, but not 100% confident in that. Hahn seemed optimistic on Crochet yesterday, and also seemed to hint towards Liam being available at some point. Sounds like Liam will be in camp a good amount, but they won't give any sort of timeline until closer to Opening Day. Actually, found a paragraph (2nd) in the below link. I was wrong haha https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/02/players-that-could-move-to-the-60-day-il-once-spring-training-begins.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Actually, found a paragraph (2nd) in the below link. I was wrong haha https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/02/players-that-could-move-to-the-60-day-il-once-spring-training-begins.html Yep, kinda figured just wasn't positive. Guess it will be telling on Liam if they don't put him on it. Fingers crossed for good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 damn I didn’t know it was a 4 year deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 It's creative as hell for what will most likely be a 1yr/$7.5M deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringfieldFan Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 hour ago, hogan873 said: I'm just tired of being frustrated about this team. So, I want to focus on rooting for the players. These guys don't have anything to do with a terrible owner and spineless GM. They're going to go out there and play their asses off, and I'm going to cheer them on. Once games start, even spring training games, it will be easier to do that. Right now, it's too easy to focus on the bad s%*#. I don't want to be angry and frustrated about how the team is constructed. I want to be angry and frustrated about the performance of the players. Just kidding...sort of. I just want baseball to start. It's funny how we root for the players when they are the most transient part of the organization, coming and going according to upper business dealings and their own financial situations. Makes me wonder just what we are fans of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Can we all agree that this sparks joy? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 37 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: It's creative as hell for what will most likely be a 1yr/$7.5M deal. Not really a $7.5M deal at all. He's guaranteed at least $26M via the player options if the Pads turn down the 2/$32M after 2023. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Not really a $7.5M deal at all. He's guaranteed at least $26M via the player options if the Pads turn down the 2/$32M after 2023. But if he is still a 10 million dollar pitcher, he can turn it down and go chase more cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: But if he is still a 10 million dollar pitcher, he can turn it down and go chase more cash. Sure. Seems to me if Padres turn down 2/$32M, he's likely hurt or was not good. If that scenario, he's probably taking the guaranteed $18.5M. Sure there is some wiggle room between that and 2/$32M, but its a pretty fine line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Sure. Seems to me if Padres turn down 2/$32M, he's likely hurt or was not good. If that scenario, he's probably taking the guaranteed $18.5M. Sure there is some wiggle room between that and 2/$32M, but its a pretty fine line. There is a 10 million dollar a year difference between the two deals. That is a broad swath if you ask me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Let's ask this simplistic question... When's the White Sox even did something good/positive, with the possible exceptions of being overly generous with Benintendi and HOPING that Grifol has the same impact on the team (even if it turns out to be an anomalous blip like 2012 for the Chicago White Sox under Ventura, and later evaporates) ??? "Simplistic questions" are usually easy to understand, but somehow I literally have no idea what you're asking. ? It's like: "Here's an easy one: who ISN'T the White Sox going to rely upon (ala 2008) from those players who Jerry believes are so important to have on a roster supposedly in the top MLB payroll tier (Cohen says hi, not to mention Steinbrenner of the 90s and 2000s ha ha ha), who doesn't have a team-friendly contract, which everyone says is Hahn's specialty (not exactly AJ Preller, even if best case scenario you consider us more like the Brewers - Yelich, Cain, Hader before he was traded, etc. etc.)?? It's a yes or no question." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Andrus averaged (4.4/4 seasons) 1.1 fWAR the last four seasons, prior to 2023's anomaly. He's another year older, too. We have seen this show, dating all the way back to Adam Dunn through Hahn's "regime" and the currently albatross Grandal transaction. We've seen the same exact regression from the likes of AJ Pollock, LaRoche, Melky Cabrera, Leury Garcia and more than likely Andrew Benintendi as he ages and gets away from the protection of that NYY line-up. His track record over the last 4-5 years definitely doesn't warrant a $75 million "buy high" deal, in the same way that offering Alex Gordon (yet another Royal) almost that same exact amount would have been ruinous had he signed. (The only Royal we could/should have even considered in the slightest was/is Sal Perez, fwiw. An actual clubhouse leader, that would be nice...I guess?) We will see the same exact regression from Seby Zavala, for example (Sox wouldn't know a catching prospect if Tim Anderson walked in off the community college basketball court and threw a bullet 93 MPH from home to 2nd base)...the Mets certainly experienced it with McCann with the overly-generous contract they rewarded him with. We're hoping for fool's gold from 2-4 middle infielders who have proven exactly NOTHING in the major leagues...almost making me rue the loss of Danny Mendick. ALMOST. We offer all the wrong contracts to everyone under the sun, but can't even make a token effort to retain Carlos Rodon or offer him a QO, then watch him become the most highly-desired LHP starting pitcher in the entire FA market one year later. BRILLIANT STUFF. Oh, and we misdiagnosed Escobar to bring in one of the worst, most non-inspired deadline acquisitions in all of White Sox history, Cesar Hernandez. And let's not even start on Kimbrel's woeful series of events that acquisition triggered....and Hahn was miraculously saved because Pollock was willing to take away less money to get out of Dodge and plant himself in a clubhouse with a genuine winning culture that wasn't already poisoned by almost neglectful levels of supervision and intervention over the last two years from a VETERAN coaching staff. I think u mean the 2022 anomaly not 2023 if you're speaking about Andrus 3.5 fWar last year and his 2 fWar he accumulated with the Sox in less than 2 months. At least we know he was still capable of that kind of production. Between Abreu, Cueto, Andrus and Hendrik's that's10 War the team lost. If Sheets doesn't make opening day roster that a .900 home OPS gone too from a .500 team. Better OF defense will help. But any WAR picked up will have to come from Benintendi, Colas, and the oft injured position players. Vaughn primed for a breakout year as are Eloy and Robert. Can't count on Clevinger for any. Gio has to rebound, Kopech needs to stay healthy and go more innings. Lynn has to stay healthy. Davis Martin can be mediocre but he can't suck. THe BP also can't suck. Can't really count on Crochet for anything despite the recent revelation that he may be back by mid May. Who even knows what that means. Many questions, need positive answers. Despite the odds against Andrus repeating a 3.5 fWar year. I'd take him in a heartbeat. Edited February 16, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Moncada in camp as an early report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Moncada in camp as an early report. Nice that he's getting work in before the WBC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 53 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: What the Hell? Is this image super pixelated for anyone else? It works normally when I click on it but it's like a blown up thumbnail in this window? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: What the Hell? Is this image super pixelated for anyone else? It works normally when I click on it but it's like a blown up thumbnail in this window? Nope, looks fine to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 2 hours ago, 35thstreetswarm said: "Simplistic questions" are usually easy to understand, but somehow I literally have no idea what you're asking. ? It's like: "Here's an easy one: who ISN'T the White Sox going to rely upon (ala 2008) from those players who Jerry believes are so important to have on a roster supposedly in the top MLB payroll tier (Cohen says hi, not to mention Steinbrenner of the 90s and 2000s ha ha ha), who doesn't have a team-friendly contract, which everyone says is Hahn's specialty (not exactly AJ Preller, even if best case scenario you consider us more like the Brewers - Yelich, Cain, Hader before he was traded, etc. etc.)?? It's a yes or no question." Who AREN'T the White Sox going to rely upon...you mean. Not an accurate parody. C+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 3 hours ago, Quin said: Can we all agree that this sparks joy? No ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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