GreenSox Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 8 hours ago, brijames1957 said: There is no downside to this. He is an above average glove and has some pop in his bat and can also play short. Also a good clubhouse guy. Sure there is - he's blocking young players. What's the upside? He's never played an inning of 2B in 14 major league seasons. His peak OPS since 2016 is .707. What does "good in the clubhouse" even mean? That he isn't a jerk? Okay, that's good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 18 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said: The people who are bitching about the move are the ones that think Romy or Sosa could hit just as well as Andrus, with probably more upside. Count me in that group - especially Sosa I was hoping would get a chance to break out, and now he's really blocked. However, I'm rationalizing it as still a good move (at least better than nothing), for the following reasons: It raises the floor significantly, as we don't risk dealing with a month or two of a rookie struggling to acclimate to MLB pitching He should be better defensively than any of the other options, despite never playing the position before it shouldn't be a hard transition Provides middle infield depth, which was essentially non-existent before Gives Sosa some more time to develop at AAA and prove last year wasn't a fluke It's dirt cheap. At $3M, if Andrus struggles, the Sox can phase him out or cut him by mid-season if Romy or Sosa looks like they could do better. I've been thinking that 4th OF is a more important position to fill, but with this move it frees up Romy to maybe take that role? If they keep both Leury and Romy, then between the two of them that's enough roster depth to cover the infield and outfield. CF is the thinnest spot, but Colas, Leury, and even Benintendi are options there. Except Leury is being paid handsomely to back up all three infield spots as well...now we have overlapping spots with him as well as Andrus. So not really any room for Romy/Sosa as they likely go to Marisnick for OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, GreenSox said: Sure there is - he's blocking young players. What's the upside? He's never played an inning of 2B in 14 major league seasons. His peak OPS since 2016 is .707. What does "good in the clubhouse" even mean? That he isn't a jerk? Okay, that's good. Great post. The odds are heavily favored that one of our internal options for 2B will outperform or match Andrus and they are practically free. While 3 million isn't a big commitment, this still seems like a waste of resources for a team that has openly been crying poor this off-season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBooneLoganEra Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Sure there is - he's blocking young players. What's the upside? He's never played an inning of 2B in 14 major league seasons. His peak OPS since 2016 is .707. What does "good in the clubhouse" even mean? That he isn't a jerk? Okay, that's good. He's not blocking anyone. Neither Romy nor Sosa are ready to be everyday starters. This acquisition allows them to be eased in. You could argue this does them a service by allowing them to further develop without the pressure of performing at a high level immediately. And good clubhouse guy is generally someone with good character who plays the game hard/smart. This signing is a good thing. It's okay to have good things sometimes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxTrojan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Except Leury is being paid handsomely to back up all three infield spots as well...now we have overlapping spots with him as well as Andrus. So not really any room for Romy/Sosa as they likely go to Marisnick for OF. No room for Sosa, I agree. But Romy can play the OF. Not CF (I don't think), and not as well as Marisnick, but he can play either corner. And he offers more pop against LHP than Marisnick or Leury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxTrojan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 9 minutes ago, T R U said: Great post. The odds are heavily favored that one of our internal options for 2B will outperform or match Andrus and they are practically free. While 3 million isn't a big commitment, this still seems like a waste of resources for a team that has openly been crying poor this off-season. I wouldn't say "heavily favored" that one of the internal options outperforms Andrus. It's certainly possible, but even in that scenario it's better to have the depth than not have it. If it's clear that Andrus is hurting the Sox offensively and Romy or Sosa could do better, $3M isn't a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said: He's not blocking anyone. Neither Romy nor Sosa are ready to be everyday starters. This acquisition allows them to be eased in. You could argue this does them a service by allowing them to further develop without the pressure of performing at a high level immediately. And good clubhouse guy is generally someone with good character who plays the game hard/smart. This signing is a good thing. It's okay to have good things sometimes. He is absolutely blocking people. Andrus is a patch, not a long term solution. He also isn't going to make or break this season so whats the purpose of spending that $3 million when you will more than likely get the same from a handful of guys already in the organization? Controllable players with more upside now and in the future not getting the job because of this signing, that would be blocking. If he was signed for depth, sure whatever I can live with that. He wasn't though, he was declared the 2B from what I have seen. It reeks of the White Sox seeing that small sample size and thinking they have solved the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said: I wouldn't say "heavily favored" that one of the internal options outperforms Andrus. It's certainly possible, but even in that scenario it's better to have the depth than not have it. If it's clear that Andrus is hurting the Sox offensively and Romy or Sosa could do better, $3M isn't a big deal. There was a great post earlier in the thread showing how much better Leury Garcia has been than Andrus for the last several years. There just isnt a whole lot of positives I can see from this signing, but you are correct, $3million isnt a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxTrojan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, T R U said: He is absolutely blocking people. Andrus is a patch, not a long term solution. He also isn't going to make or break this season so whats the purpose of spending that $3 million when you will more than likely get the same from a handful of guys already in the organization? Controllable players with more upside now and in the future not getting the job because of this signing, that would be blocking. If he was signed for depth, sure whatever I can live with that. He wasn't though, he was declared the 2B from what I have seen. It reeks of the White Sox seeing that small sample size and thinking they have solved the problem. The Sox haven't announced the signing yet, so he has not been "declared the 2B." I think Passan and Nightengale mentioned that the Sox signed him to play 2B, but that's just reading the situation, not some sort of declaration that he is going to be the undisputed starter. Sosa has more upside, but he's 23 and has like 2 months in AAA. It's not a crime for him to go back there and make sure his one good professional season wasn't a fluke. Romy I don't think has any more upside than Andrus (and has a much lower floor), but I still think he makes the team. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said: The Sox haven't announced the signing yet, so he has not been "declared the 2B." I think Passan and Nightengale mentioned that the Sox signed him to play 2B, but that's just reading the situation, not some sort of declaration that he is going to be the undisputed starter. Sosa has more upside, but he's 23 and has like 2 months in AAA. It's not a crime for him to go back there and make sure his one good professional season wasn't a fluke. Romy I don't think has any more upside than Andrus (and has a much lower floor), but I still think he makes the team. Right, just going off what has been reported though it certainly seems like he is going to be the 2B and not just a depth guy. It just feels like everyone remembers what he did in the small sample size with the Sox and not what he has been for many years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 24 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said: He's not blocking anyone. Neither Romy nor Sosa are ready to be everyday starters. This acquisition allows them to be eased in. You could argue this does them a service by allowing them to further develop without the pressure of performing at a high level immediately. And good clubhouse guy is generally someone with good character who plays the game hard/smart. This signing is a good thing. It's okay to have good things sometimes. Unless they already “ruined” Sosa last year… Cue “he wasn’t likely good enough to be a big league regular anyway if he couldn’t handle failure,” same things we read about Marcus Semien, and also lacking one dominant defensive position as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 12 hours ago, wegner said: Your 2023 Chicago White Sox....It is what it is. So true and pathetic that it has come to this! Sadly this Mantra won't change until the team is sold and the Three Stooges JR, RH and KW are gone! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxTrojan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 17 minutes ago, T R U said: Right, just going off what has been reported though it certainly seems like he is going to be the 2B and not just a depth guy. It just feels like everyone remembers what he did in the small sample size with the Sox and not what he has been for many years now. The only opinions that matter are the opinions of the coaching staff, and they weren't even around last year. And honestly if Rick Hahn thought he was a sure-fire starter at 2B, he would have given him $8M a month ago. That move would have been rightfully criticized. But at $3M, he'll definitely by on the opening day roster but past that we'll see. I could see a situation where Romy gets most of the starts against LHP and Andrus against RHP, because Romy hasn't yet shown the ability to hit major league RHP. But it's fluid, at least there's a little more versatility now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 If EA gets over 200 at bats, it will be a bad year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 52 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Sure there is - he's blocking young players. What's the upside? He's never played an inning of 2B in 14 major league seasons. His peak OPS since 2016 is .707. What does "good in the clubhouse" even mean? That he isn't a jerk? Okay, that's good. C'mon now who is he blocking ? Romy, the guy who had one good season a couple of years ago in the minors but has been hyped up this spring ? Great if he's so good let him prove it in the minors. Sosa ? Again let him prove it in the minors. He only just turned 23 . He raked in Birmingham and has a history of being slow to adjust to the next level. He got almost as many PA in Charlotte as in did in Birmingham but his OPS was over.100 less in Charlotte. Anyone else is below Romy and Sosa in the pecking order. It's one year for heavens sake and $3M. It's not like the Sox are going to stand in the way of some superstar minor leaguer who needs to come up right away just so Andrus can play every single game of the season. We should have a good idea of how good this team is by the All STar break. If they suck, great, bring up the few young guys that might need to see MLB pitching and start the adjustment process. He went 11 for 11 in stolen bases last year and seems like a guy who knows how to take advantage of the new pickoff rules in the right situations. He's a heady guy and has a lot to offer. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 59 minutes ago, T R U said: There was a great post earlier in the thread showing how much better Leury Garcia has been than Andrus for the last several years. There just isnt a whole lot of positives I can see from this signing, but you are correct, $3million isnt a big deal. Well he’s a very good defensive SS and is moving to a much easier position, so it’s probably safe to assume he’ll be a very good defensive 2B. Leury isn’t that. Nor is Romy. Offensively I’d be pretty happy with slightly below league average production out of Elvis. Zips and steamer both project bim right around 90 wRC+. That’s probably still a 2 fWAR player even at like 400 PA. I personally am still hoping to see Sosa eventually win that job by mid season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Blocking non-elite prospects is not a bad thing. Let Sosa force their hand by raking in Charlotte for a few months. This move is fine. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierSox Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Sox just need to cut Leury loose and let Romy take his spot as utility infielder that can play OF in a pinch as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, T R U said: Great post. The odds are heavily favored that one of our internal options for 2B will outperform or match Andrus and they are practically free. While 3 million isn't a big commitment, this still seems like a waste of resources for a team that has openly been crying poor this off-season. The Odds are heavily favored ? Who is making odds on the White Sox 2nd base candidates MLB performance in 2023 ? Fangraphs uses 7 different projection systems and they have Andrus from 1.0 to 1.9 fWar next year. These same systems say Romy is projected for.1 - .9 fWar and Sosa .3 to 1.6 I'd say the chances are much higher that Andrus gets to 2 fWar since like, ya know, he did it last year in MLB rather than Sosa or Romy (lol) who have never ever been in the majors for any length of time. Common sense should tell you that instead of your own made up musings about the odds regarding the performance of 26 yr old Romy and the not ready yet Sosa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxTrojan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 9 minutes ago, HoosierSox said: Sox just need to cut Leury loose and let Romy take his spot as utility infielder that can play OF in a pinch as well. That would be dumb and counter-productive, at least now. Leury is fine as a backup, and even in his terrible, injury-plagued 2022 season he was better than Romy against RHP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 SoxTalk: The Sox really need to add someone for 2B. Just someone so we don't have to rely on Romy or Sosa right away. Hell, even Harrison would have been a good option. *Sox sign a veteran middle infielder on a good deal* SoxTalk: Not like that! God this team sucks. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just now, hogan873 said: SoxTalk: The Sox really need to add someone for 2B. Just someone so we don't have to rely on Romy or Sosa right away. Hell, even Harrison would have been a good option. *Sox sign a veteran middle infielder on a good deal* SoxTalk: Not like that! God this team sucks. it's possible the first people were also the people happy about this? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 The White Sox got a professional baseball player to play 2B and bat 9th. He doesn't need to be a 3 WAR or hit home runs. He needs to be smart and play solid baseball he will. Close the thread that it is. There is no further discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Leury might be blocking guys we would rather see play and develop. Let's not trash Andrus quite yet. His locker room fwar is off the charts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, bmags said: it's possible the first people were also the people happy about this? Yeah, certainly some hyperbole there. Just seems like the unhappy posters are the loudest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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