ChiSoxTrojan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: The Odds are heavily favored ? Who is making odds on the White Sox 2nd base candidates MLB performance in 2023 ? Fangraphs uses 7 different projection systems and they have Andrus from 1.0 to 1.9 fWar next year. These same systems say Romy is projected for.1 - .9 fWar and Sosa .3 to 1.6 I'd say the chances are much higher that Andrus gets to 2 fWar since like, ya know, he did it last year in MLB rather than Sosa or Romy (lol) who have never ever been in the majors for any length of time. Common sense should tell you that instead of your own made up musings about the odds regarding the performance of 26 yr old Romy and the not ready yet Sosa. To be fair, the difference in their projected WAR has a lot to do with projected playing time, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. ZiPS has their projected OPS's almost identical (.642 for Andrus, .646 for Romy, and .664 for Sosa). All that said I agree with you that "heavily favored" is a stretch, and it's better to have Andrus than not have him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 21 minutes ago, Snopek said: Blocking non-elite prospects is not a bad thing. Let Sosa force their hand by raking in Charlotte for a few months. This move is fine. yeah I disagree. The reason I disagree is because if you put romy or sosa at 2b to start the season and after two weeks they are awful the org would be terrified and sign some guy like jose iglesias to immediately step in. Andrus is going to get a lot more runway to be bad, at least thru june. I hope he's good as he was last year, but we've seen plenty of older 30 year old players suddenly fall off a cliff, and they get plenty of time to right the ship. Younger players? Unless Hahn has seen them in the top 100 they get zero rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 No one else wanted him, so, sure, let's sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said: To be fair, the difference in their projected WAR has a lot to do with projected playing time, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. ZiPS has their projected OPS's almost identical (.642 for Andrus, .646 for Romy, and .664 for Sosa). All that said I agree with you that "heavily favored" is a stretch, and it's better to have Andrus than not have him. Right I understand the projection systems but they have Andrus getting more playing time for a reason. Plus the variances in outcome for the Romy and Sosa are much wider than the guy with a track record in MLB. Just saying the young guys without great minor league stats are definitely going to have a greater chance of massive failure than Andrus and you don't need projection systems to know that. Edited February 20, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 I am extremely skeptical given this is apparently the best he could do. Usually when the Sox dumpster dive the only thing left to pull out is everyone else's trash. That said, it's good to have a real backup SS on the roster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 9 minutes ago, oldsox said: No one else wanted him, so, sure, let's sign him. Sounds like Rodon from a couple years ago. Nobody wanted him, so we signed him for $3M. That seemed to work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoeLessRob Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 f*** yeah! Jerry about to increase parking price to $35 after this needle mover! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Tell me this isn't real 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, bmags said: yeah I disagree. The reason I disagree is because if you put romy or sosa at 2b to start the season and after two weeks they are awful the org would be terrified and sign some guy like jose iglesias to immediately step in. Andrus is going to get a lot more runway to be bad, at least thru june. I hope he's good as he was last year, but we've seen plenty of older 30 year old players suddenly fall off a cliff, and they get plenty of time to right the ship. Younger players? Unless Hahn has seen them in the top 100 they get zero rope. Andrus deserves more leeway to be bad because he'll be steady and gives you veteran smarts and good base running born from experience . Rookies especially Romy are wildly unpredictable and have 0 veteran knowledge. The game is often too fast for them. I don't even know why we talk about Romy as much as we do. What's he ever done ? After Andrus is gone there may be a dogfight for 2nd base that Romy isn't even involved in unless it happens this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxTrojan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Right I understand the projection systems but they have Andrus getting more playing time for a reason. Plus the variances in outcome for the Romy and Sosa are much wider than the guy with a track record in MLB. Just saying the young guys without great minor league stats are definitely going to have a greater chance of massive failure than Andrus and you don't need projection systems to know that. FanGraphs also projected Andrus getting a 2-year, $20M deal in free agency this winter, and that didn't happen. I imagine ZiPS assumed he was going to be offered a starting SS gig, which is what he's been for most of his career, and projected his playing time accordingly. These projections were made before it was even known what team he was going to be playing for. If I were a betting man, and we were somehow able to watch the season fold out with each of Andrus/Romy/Sosa as the starting 2B, my money would be on Sosa to finish with the best batting line. But I agree Andrus has a much safer floor, and that's why this is a good move regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Andrus deserves more leeway to be bad because he'll be steady and gives you veteran smarts and good base running born from experience . Rookies especially Romy are wildly unpredictable and have 0 veteran knowledge. The game is often too fast for them. I don't even know why we talk about Romy as much as we do. What's he ever done ? After Andrus is gone there may be a dogfight for 2nd base that Romy isn't even involved in unless it happens this season. Very possible, I hope so, actually. OR next year we sign Kolten Wong in late february after anxiety on what jose rodriguez has ever done, and sosa barely playing in mlb, and for $3.5 mil it's a steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 People really out here, thinking that if no moves were made, Romy/Lenyn were going to play MORE than Leury? LOL..... If they don't bring Andrus in, we're seeing Leury Garcia at 2B 75% of the time. I'll pass on that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, bmags said: Very possible, I hope so, actually. OR next year we sign Kolten Wong in late february after anxiety on what jose rodriguez has ever done, and sosa barely playing in mlb, and for $3.5 mil it's a steal. If this season is a bust the Sox will have a lot more to worry about next year than they do this year which is actually very frightening. For now I'm drinking the Grifol Kool-aid about giving the players all the info they need and the more intense prep work and how, as players and a team, the whole process of how you get from point A to point B in small productive steps at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, Capn12 said: People really out here, thinking that if no moves were made, Romy/Lenyn were going to play MORE than Leury? LOL..... If they don't bring Andrus in, we're seeing Leury Garcia at 2B 75% of the time. I'll pass on that. Maybe I’m setting my expectations for Grifol too high, but I think we’ll see Leury being used much more in his intended utility role, Elvis or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, Capn12 said: People really out here, thinking that if no moves were made, Romy/Lenyn were going to play MORE than Leury? LOL..... If they don't bring Andrus in, we're seeing Leury Garcia at 2B 75% of the time. I'll pass on that. Disagree. Tony La Russa is gone 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Well, a handful of young White Sox infielders just learned once and for all how much your manager’s public vote of confidence is worth. Hopefully Andrus really did discover another gear of some kind, because he projects to be no better than the in house options, and the cost of the acquisition isn’t the $3m — it’s the lack of development/evaluation the Sox are paying in opportunity cost. If nothing else, the Sox now know they’re on track be in exactly the same boat next year. I know, I know, I’m too negative. Complain about everything blah blah. But look, mathematically, Andrus 2022 looks like the most obvious dead cat bounce anyone has ever seen. Literally no one was buying it, there is no defensible objective argument whatsoever that he is likely to approach what he did last year. The in-house options aren’t good, but it isn’t clear at all that this even qualifies as an upgrade to them. This isn’t a big loss in a vaccuum, but it continues the Sox trend of paying a steeper and more diverse price than any other franchise to make marginal upgrades. No team more consistently robs peter to pay Paul. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Veteran presence, can glove it better than any infielder on the roster other than Moncada. Insurance for not it but when Tim gets hurt. His bat will not make or break this team, Moncada, Eloy, Tim, Grandal and Robert will decide that. This makes Leury even more of a bench player, solid deal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Same folks still run the organization, right? Then sadly, I'll expect status quo, until proven otherwise. Garcia has played in over half of the games every season since 2017, COVID year not withstanding. So...yeah. I'll continue to expect SSDD until we see differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Ever inspiring confidence in the fanbase there Rick... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Ever inspiring confidence in the fanbase there Rick... It's possible Romy steals the 2B job eventually. I would also rather have Sosa in AAA playing every day than sitting on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 20 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Ever inspiring confidence in the fanbase there Rick... Makes total sense though. Andrus held out to see if he would get SS offers. Also, it was obvious a couple of days ago that there was another move coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 21 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: It's possible Romy steals the 2B job eventually. I would also rather have Sosa in AAA playing every day than sitting on the bench. I think sosa should start in AAA. Fangraphs says he is a pretty bad defender so let him work at second base every day and not move him around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Another Sox parade runs into a thunderstorm. Surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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