2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

I think the Jets would give up a decently high pick (they do not believe in Wilson). The rest of the teams, probably not.

Because the value is more as a running back somewhere under Bijan Robinson...

[Flash Tizzle]

9 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I am 99 percent sure he is not the guy. 

He’s not, and I believe most Bears fans, his own teammates, management, and everyone else knows it as well. But of course we have to suffer through the long, painful death of watching him “run out the clock” on the season. 

We all know the play-Bagent calls we get louder. Now it’s primarily the meatball fans, but soon enough, it will be everyone. Especially staring down 0-3 soon. If we were 0-7 as you mentioned a few days ago, it’d be really tough to justify what - if anything - is gained by throwing out Fields. Bagents evaluation as a competent backup QB would be worth more than throwing out Fields for trade value or tanking purposes

[Flash Tizzle]

11 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I feel there's no way he could have traded Fields unless the package was ridiculous. If he trades Fields and Fields turns into a stud, that is a career killer. He needed to ride with Fields for one more season. Nobody should be blaming him for rolling with Fields this season. 

Yeah I believe in this logic too. If Fields fails, Poles can say: “Look i tried to give him the weapons to succeed!” It’s a safer bet for his job security than risking trading him and Fields developing into a great QB. Then at worst, Chicago drafts high again the following season with a better QB class. 

[Tony]

25 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I feel there's no way he could have traded Fields unless the package was ridiculous. If he trades Fields and Fields turns into a stud, that is a career killer. He needed to ride with Fields for one more season. Nobody should be blaming him for rolling with Fields this season. 

I don’t love the feeling when you’re absolutely right, but when you’re right…you’re right 

[baseball_gal_aly]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

It was still a good trade. You didn’t know what you had in Fields. You got DJ Moore, along with two first rounders available to you in 2024. If Fields wasn’t the guy, it means the Bears are going to have a shitty record, so both picks should be fairly high. 
 

We also don’t know what the market was like for Fields. 

I don't disagree, and I understand why he went with Fields for one more year, but imo it's still a mark against Poles. I don't think the Bears had ever had the #1 pick in team history before last year. 

I didn't like the QBs in last year's draft that much either, but I doubt they'll be picking #1 2 years in a row and nobody is trading Caleb Williams. 

You can't be wrong on every major decision over your first 2 years like Poles has. 

Eberflus? Bad

Claypool for 2nd? Bad

Sticking with Fields? Bad

Passing on Jalen Carter-TBD but early returns not good. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by baseball_gal_aly

[Tony]

1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I don't disagree, and I understand why he went with Fields for one more year, but imo it's still a mark against Poles. I don't think the Bears had ever had the #1 pick in team history before last year. 

I didn't like the QBs in last year's draft that much either, but I doubt they'll be picking #1 2 years in a row and nobody is trading Caleb Williams. 

You can't be wrong on every major decision over your first 2 years like Poles has. 

Eberflus? Bad

Claypool for 2nd? Bad

Sticking with Fields? Bad

Passing on Jalen Carter-TBD but early returns not good. 

You’re not presenting solutions either, you’re just saying “it was the wrong move.” 
 

What should Poles have done that was better than keeping Fields? Who was the trade partner? What were they going to give up where it made sense to get value? 
 

It was a calculated risk. If Fields was the guy, everything gets easier. Now you have two firsts to really upgrade your roster. Now you have use both of those to possibly get 1 player, and you still need to find a trade partner. But at least Poles got the assets to give himself the option in case Fields didn’t work out. 

He took a risk, and it was the right one at the time. He’s put a good amount of talent around Fields, and now they’re really be able to find out if he’s the guy or not. Given the talent on the roster last year, there was no way to really understand who he was. Tom Brady wouldn’t have won Jack s%*# with the WR/RB depth last year. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

9 minutes ago, Tony said:

You’re not presenting solutions either, you’re just saying “it was the wrong move.” 
 

What should Poles have done that was better than keeping Fields? Who was the trade partner? What were they going to give up where it made sense to get value? 
 

It was a calculated risk. If Fields was the guy, everything gets easier. Now you have two firsts to really upgrade your roster. Now you have use both of those to possibly get 1 player, and you still need to find a trade partner. But at least Poles got the assets to give himself the option in case Fields didn’t work out. 

He took a risk, and it was the right one at the time. He’s put a good amount of talent around Fields, and now they’re really be able to find out if he’s the guy or not. Given the talent on the roster last year, there was no way to really understand who he was. Tom Brady wouldn’t have won Jack s%*# with the WR/RB depth last year. 

The alternative is taking Bryce Young #1 and trading Fields for the best deal. 

That being said, this was the safe route and he chose it. 

I understand the arguments but I'd liked to be a fly on the wall when the Bears brass were scouting the QBs in the last draft class. 

Even if you give him an incomplete for Fields/Young and Carter/Wright, the Claypool trade and the Eberflus hire look to be massive whiffs. 

The problem with kicking the can down the road for a year is that getting the #1 pick is hard and it takes a special type of suck (and a bit of a miracle) for them to get it last year. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by baseball_gal_aly

[Tony]

41 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

The alternative is taking Bryce Young #1 and trading Fields for the best deal. 

That being said, this was the safe route and he chose it. 

I understand the arguments but I'd liked to be a fly on the wall when the Bears brass were scouting the QBs in the last draft class. 

Even if you give him an incomplete for Fields/Young and Carter/Wright, the Claypool trade and the Eberflus hire look to be massive whiffs. 

The problem with kicking the can down the road for a year is that getting the #1 pick is hard and it takes a special type of suck (and a bit of a miracle) for them to get it last year. 

Can't argue with that and I'm not going around calling him "King Poles" and such. He has a lot to prove. But as we've seen across the NFL, when a new regime takes over, it's basically a given you're giving them 5 years to put a program together. Takes a year or so to get rid of the crap from the last group, then you start to build the foundation in Year 2-3, in Year 4-5 you better start competing. Poles is in Year 1.5. Now, I expected them to at the very least to be .500 this season. I thought a wild card was best case, but not impossible. Obviously that looks a lot different now, but I don't think that's on Poles, I would put him pretty far down the list right now.

If I was in his shoes, given the situation, I gotta see if I have something in Fields. It tells me how I'm going to proceed moving forward. If he would have moved him in the offseason, you're trading an unknown asset. I know many had already made up their mind about Fields, but he was given a very shitty hand to this point. But the excuses stopped this season. Poles gave him the proper tools to work with. It's Year 3 now for Fields. This is it. And right or wrong, we're going to find out if Fields can play NFL QB for a contending team. Seems like he's sending us a pretty clear message after Week 2, but you still gotta find out. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

8 minutes ago, Tony said:

Can't argue with that and I'm not going around calling him "King Poles" and such. He has a lot to prove. But as we've seen across the NFL, when a new regime takes over, it's basically a given you're giving them 5 years to put a program together. Takes a year or so to get rid of the crap from the last group, then you start to build the foundation in Year 2-3, in Year 4-5 you better start competing. Poles is in Year 1.5. Now, I expected them to at the very least to be .500 this season. I thought a wild card was best case, but not impossible. Obviously that looks a lot different now, but I don't think that's on Poles, I would put him pretty far down the list right now.

If I was in his shoes, given the situation, I gotta see if I have something in Fields. It tells me how I'm going to proceed moving forward. If he would have moved him in the offseason, you're trading an unknown asset. I know many had already made up their mind about Fields, but he was given a very shitty hand to this point. But the excuses stopped this season. Poles gave him the proper tools to work with. It's Year 3 now for Fields. This is it. And right or wrong, we're going to find out if Fields can play NFL QB for a contending team. Seems like he's sending us a pretty clear message after Week 2, but you still gotta find out. 

Idk, I think that if the first HC a GM hires fails in only 2 years, then the GM shouldn't get another hire. 

He's had 4 major decisions to make and none of them look good as of right now, while two of them are an absolute disaster.

Edited September 18, 2023 by baseball_gal_aly

[Dick Allen]

The Bears are the White Sox of the NFL.

[The Beast]

9 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

How many times in a row does the WR screen have to not work before they stop calling it?

Is the screen where they throw 1-2 yards out and there are maybe one to two blockers? I’m so tired of that play. Let Fields throw into the middle of the field. I don’t like some of Getsy’s play calling.

8 hours ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

Fields needs to stop holding on to the ball so damn long, either get rid of it or use your legs

That’s true. But the coaching staff needs to let him run and throw. Getsy’s offense isn’t great.

8 hours ago, Soxfest said:

I think it’s becoming apparent Fields is not progressing at all. Poles has no ties to him and will move on.

He’s still not seeing the field like I’d like to see but I saw some throws I liked (and some I didn’t like today). Will Poles move on after this season or after 2024?

8 hours ago, Soxfest said:

LT Jones have a game 

They need a left tackle. Jones sucks a la Ja’Marcus Webb

8 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

The defense can’t tackle people.

This is a problem.

8 hours ago, Soxfest said:

Defense can’t get off the field on 3rd down. Eberflus has to go, he has won as many games as me since last October…..Zero

This is a problem. They can’t cover and get pressure.

7 hours ago, Soxfest said:

Time to heavily scout next years QB class, because Bears don’t have one! Trade both first round picks in a deal to get one.

Or see if one of those picks is strong enough to get the QB and draft another impact player. Carolina might be bad…which is great for the Bears.

7 hours ago, fathom said:

Draft a difference maker on defense and see what Fields had this year.  If he sucks, you draft Caleb or Maye, etc

Carter was an option and I wish they had taken with him. But I also was fine with the Wright pick.

7 hours ago, fathom said:

I’m fine with that, but the whole coaching staff needs to go

They will after this year or next.

6 hours ago, SoxAce said:

How long till we hear the "start Tyson Bagent" calls from fans?

Tomorrow on 670 the Score. Let’s see if a guy who was competent in a few quarters in the preseason can do. I’m just not there yet. Ride Fields out for now.

2 hours ago, Tony said:

Can't argue with that and I'm not going around calling him "King Poles" and such. He has a lot to prove. But as we've seen across the NFL, when a new regime takes over, it's basically a given you're giving them 5 years to put a program together. Takes a year or so to get rid of the crap from the last group, then you start to build the foundation in Year 2-3, in Year 4-5 you better start competing. Poles is in Year 1.5. Now, I expected them to at the very least to be .500 this season. I thought a wild card was best case, but not impossible. Obviously that looks a lot different now, but I don't think that's on Poles, I would put him pretty far down the list right now.

If I was in his shoes, given the situation, I gotta see if I have something in Fields. It tells me how I'm going to proceed moving forward. If he would have moved him in the offseason, you're trading an unknown asset. I know many had already made up their mind about Fields, but he was given a very shitty hand to this point. But the excuses stopped this season. Poles gave him the proper tools to work with. It's Year 3 now for Fields. This is it. And right or wrong, we're going to find out if Fields can play NFL QB for a contending team. Seems like he's sending us a pretty clear message after Week 2, but you still gotta find out. 

Totally fair analysis, the kind I want the meatballs who just blame Fields to see. I asked one of my friends to put a percentage on how much blame Fields deserves. He said 25%, I expected him to be like other fans who are thinking like 50-75%.

[Chisoxfn]

If I were Fields, I would go to coaching staff tomorrow and say design 10 run plays a game for me. He will probably get hurt - but Fields only chance at being special is to be put in a system that leverages every ounce of athleticism he has to force teams to guard him and create space for big plays. 
 

Fields has nothing to lose at this point. And I am for sure the fan who now expects Bagent to start half the season. s%*# - why can’t he be the next Purdy haha. He won’t be - he doesn’t have the arm, but s%*#…if two quarters through the season offense is meh - time to see what they look like with someone who appears to be able to get ball out on time. I just don’t think he has the arm talent to play in NFL. 

[Chisoxfn]

5 hours ago, Tony said:

Can't argue with that and I'm not going around calling him "King Poles" and such. He has a lot to prove. But as we've seen across the NFL, when a new regime takes over, it's basically a given you're giving them 5 years to put a program together. Takes a year or so to get rid of the crap from the last group, then you start to build the foundation in Year 2-3, in Year 4-5 you better start competing. Poles is in Year 1.5. Now, I expected them to at the very least to be .500 this season. I thought a wild card was best case, but not impossible. Obviously that looks a lot different now, but I don't think that's on Poles, I would put him pretty far down the list right now.

If I was in his shoes, given the situation, I gotta see if I have something in Fields. It tells me how I'm going to proceed moving forward. If he would have moved him in the offseason, you're trading an unknown asset. I know many had already made up their mind about Fields, but he was given a very shitty hand to this point. But the excuses stopped this season. Poles gave him the proper tools to work with. It's Year 3 now for Fields. This is it. And right or wrong, we're going to find out if Fields can play NFL QB for a contending team. Seems like he's sending us a pretty clear message after Week 2, but you still gotta find out. 

100 percent. I’ll just Poles on how draft picks more than anything. His free agent choices matter too…at least ones where they are multiple years and/or using material cap space. 

[bmags]

Yeah, turning fields into a pocket passer in a dumb offense isn't saving anyones careers. Just let him run and deal with it. Crazy I can't even remember seeing some run-options where last year he would just cook the d end no matter if they played it right or not.

[bmags]

But, hard not to see the end zone view of that play where he had about 4 seconds and a wide open receiver going up the seam and just ends up falling into his guard and think "yeah this guy is gonna be the long term savior"

[Harry Chappas]

I still find it odd that last week the issue in the media was the effort of the #3 wideout's blocking ability.

Fields is regressing like every semi-talented White Sox player.

[LittleHurtCG]

8 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

If I were Fields, I would go to coaching staff tomorrow and say design 10 run plays a game for me. He will probably get hurt - but Fields only chance at being special is to be put in a system that leverages every ounce of athleticism he has to force teams to guard him and create space for big plays. 
 

Fields has nothing to lose at this point. And I am for sure the fan who now expects Bagent to start half the season. s%*# - why can’t he be the next Purdy haha. He won’t be - he doesn’t have the arm, but s%*#…if two quarters through the season offense is meh - time to see what they look like with someone who appears to be able to get ball out on time. I just don’t think he has the arm talent to play in NFL. 

100%. The Bears have to utilize his legs. The offense scares no one if Fields isn't a threat to run. 

[Tony]

8 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

If I were Fields, I would go to coaching staff tomorrow and say design 10 run plays a game for me. He will probably get hurt - but Fields only chance at being special is to be put in a system that leverages every ounce of athleticism he has to force teams to guard him and create space for big plays. 
 

Fields has nothing to lose at this point. And I am for sure the fan who now expects Bagent to start half the season. s%*# - why can’t he be the next Purdy haha. He won’t be - he doesn’t have the arm, but s%*#…if two quarters through the season offense is meh - time to see what they look like with someone who appears to be able to get ball out on time. I just don’t think he has the arm talent to play in NFL. 

I was thinking about this last night. The play everyone is talking about from yesterday, where he had great pocket protection, two WR open and the RB open in the flat...everything was right there for him and he ended up taking a sack. Now, that's on Justin first and foremost. Not going to blame anyone else. 

However, Fields had less than 5 rushing yards yesterday. That's insane. It leads me to think the coaching staff is giving him very specific instructions, and he's forcing things. He's not able to do what comes natural to him, and it's getting in his head. 

[fathom]

1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said:

I still find it odd that last week the issue in the media was the effort of the #3 wideout's blocking ability.

Fields is regressing like every semi-talented White Sox player.

Ha, so true.  Watch him lose his speed in the next 1-2 years 

[baseball_gal_aly]

 

[Tony]

 

2 hours ago, Tony said:

I was thinking about this last night. The play everyone is talking about from yesterday, where he had great pocket protection, two WR open and the RB open in the flat...everything was right there for him and he ended up taking a sack. Now, that's on Justin first and foremost. Not going to blame anyone else. 

However, Fields had less than 5 rushing yards yesterday. That's insane. It leads me to think the coaching staff is giving him very specific instructions, and he's forcing things. He's not able to do what comes natural to him, and it's getting in his head. 

This is sort of what I was saying. This is still on Justin...but something is off here. 

[nitetrain8601]

3 hours ago, Tony said:

I was thinking about this last night. The play everyone is talking about from yesterday, where he had great pocket protection, two WR open and the RB open in the flat...everything was right there for him and he ended up taking a sack. Now, that's on Justin first and foremost. Not going to blame anyone else. 

However, Fields had less than 5 rushing yards yesterday. That's insane. It leads me to think the coaching staff is giving him very specific instructions, and he's forcing things. He's not able to do what comes natural to him, and it's getting in his head. 

Here's the thing: 

If you don't believe Fields is your answer at that position, it makes no sense to change the offense unless you believe you have a Super Bowl Contender that is relying on the QB being good. The Bears, by most experts' opinions, would be lucky to make the playoffs this year pre-season. Most expected Justin to take that step, however. He hasn't. 

If you change an offense, you also have to understand, you're changing how your lineman protect, you're changing routes and schemes for the receivers as well as your backs. You are literally changing everything for one guy who you don't believe to be your future. 

In addition, if you did believe the guy is your future, at some point, he has to show development. He's actually gone backwards. The scheme is drawing guys open, but the biggest thing Justin is missing, is anticipation and perception. When a DB is on his receiver's back waist, but there's no one over the top, that guy is open, especially if you lead the ball past the receiver a bit. Justin has no ability to decipher that though. There were many more passes yesterday, that he held onto. When the All-22 comes out, you'll see he missed as many, if not more throws this week down the field. Even the commentators were making fun out of him when he would actually attempt a pass past 10 yards.

His drop backs are really really slow right now. He's running into defenders and pressure. He lost much of the pocket presence he had last year. And the maddening thing, which is why I think people are blaming the coaches, is that you see the TD throw he had to Claypool yesterday where he threw it in a window and you think "he has the ability, it has to be the coaches coaching him up". 

So far, you have three really bright and respected offensive minds (Martz, Nagy and Getsy) all of whom have issues with Justin. At some point, it's not the coaching, it's the players. LeSean McCoy called it out today. He has more talent on his side of the ball including a legit #1, but he's just not slinging the ball. He's unsure. He wants guys to be open like he was at OSU. And if they're not, he's just checked it down. And it sucks, because JF is a good guy and you want him to succeed, but he can't. 

The only thing I'll say is Getsy should design more slant routes, but who's to tell whether Justin will throw it if it's in, what he perceives, to be coverage. 

[nitetrain8601]

19 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I don't disagree, and I understand why he went with Fields for one more year, but imo it's still a mark against Poles. I don't think the Bears had ever had the #1 pick in team history before last year. 

I didn't like the QBs in last year's draft that much either, but I doubt they'll be picking #1 2 years in a row and nobody is trading Caleb Williams. 

You can't be wrong on every major decision over your first 2 years like Poles has. 

Eberflus? Bad

Claypool for 2nd? Bad

Sticking with Fields? Bad

Passing on Jalen Carter-TBD but early returns not good. 

I'm not a huge Eberflus guy, but you can't tell if he's bad yet. They gutted his roster year 1. And when his defense was competent, they traded everything including the flooboards to it. 

Claypool - yea, that's bad

Sticking with Fields - Absolutely not bad. You had to see if he would take the next step. If he turned good, you would be getting the axe from all sides about trading a young QB like that. You also had no one to replace him with. Lastly, last year's draft class, was average, at best. You just had a lot of teams needing QBs. This year's class, is much better. Caleb Williams is the cream of it, but Drake Maye wouldn't be bad either. I also believe it's based on record, and right now, it's looking like Carolina and the Bears will struggle to win. 

Passing on Jalen - nothing TBD. They didn't and still don't have the locker room. Hell, they're struggling with Chase Claypool out of all people. You think that's the environment to bring Jalen Carter into? 

The only other bad mark, but it's a big one, is the spending of cap space/FA. Poles tried to sign a guy to a big deal who wouldn't pass a physical. He reached on Tremaine Edmunds. His secondary that he drafted is pretty decent, but they have no pressure. They gutted the defense and are a lot worse. And I don't see reinforcements coming through. 

[bmags]

I think any good coach could have won at least one of the last 12 games for the bears even with talent deficiencies they had.

NFL coaches aren't like baseball managers. They absolutely can raise the floor even if you ultimately need superior talent to be the best team in the league.

[bmags]

And the knock against poles to me is just that while he may not have set them back (and if he were fired, this job would look great with certainly a top 5 pick and potentially two top 10 picks, cap space, and an amazing draft year), we have yet to see one of his draft picks become anything like a game changer.