2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[Harry Chappas]

Poles couldn't move Fields based on public perception.  I will say though that they should have known going into this year that this is who he is and what is plan B.

The 49ers have shown that missing on a QB and bad trade is not crippling if other aspects of the organization are working properly.  

The Bears look to be 0-2 in this hunt and the other aspects of the organization are subpar as well.

Hopefully they are getting two high picks next year.  Then they can trade one for additional draft capital.

 

 

[bmags]

I do think, grand scheme of things, being in a good position with this QB class is gonna be one of those bursts of good luck in a bad situation. But the overall roster has got to improve.

It is still very young/inexperienced. Ideally we feel better about our new RT/secondary later in the year. 

[bigruss]

They clearly needed more than 1 draft to retool, especially on the lines.

[lostfan]

Matt Eberflus is a sentient jar of mayonnaise who would fit right in as one of Jerry's employees, if the Bears were a Reinsdorf team. Dude has mastered the art of deflecting blame and shielding his staff from accountability at the same time.

[lostfan]

Is the Bears' offensive line good? No. It's not

Is Luke Getsy designing game plans to help get the most out of Justin Fields? No... I honestly have no idea what he's even trying to accomplish actually. He's only had 4 designed runs all year, that is coaching malpractice.

That said, first acknowledging those things, Justin's absolutely been a factor in his own failure here. The pass protection isn't great but it doesn't help when Justin stands there for 4 seconds staring at open WRs and doesn't throw the ball. The thing about playing QB is if you're good enough to start in the NFL, you'll see evidence of it even if everything around you is on fire and you're not able to play to your full potential. If you asked me last season if I saw that in Justin Fields I would've said yes, of course, and the list of reasons you'd give for his lack of production wasn't excuses, it was explanations. But now the future is here and he's regressed - some of that is on the coaches, but if you have the goods, you'd do something other than passively sink to the level of mediocrity around you. Fields has out-of-this-world physical tools and he was said to have extremely high intelligence, he's gotta be better than this.

Edited September 19, 2023 by lostfan

[Chisoxfn]

6 hours ago, bmags said:

I do think, grand scheme of things, being in a good position with this QB class is gonna be one of those bursts of good luck in a bad situation. But the overall roster has got to improve.

It is still very young/inexperienced. Ideally we feel better about our new RT/secondary later in the year. 

For me Poles future comes down to how his draft picks perform this year. It’s early - let’s see what happens. I also want to see at least some of his free agent moves pay off, especially the bigger money ones. 
 

And I will state if I were Poles - zero chance I would have traded Fields. I was lukewarm on Fields but you knew he didn’t have enough around him last year to make a decision and everyone could see the god given physical abilities he has and he clearly puts in work effort etc - so you had to see what could happen. 
 

With that in mind - there are 15 more games, hopefully Fields shows us in a more free flowing system he can be a true playmaker / difference maker. I am not expecting it and I now have my expectations perfectly aligned but s%*# - it could happen and I will root for him. Coaching staff has to start supporting him though and putting this around him cause they aren’t keeping their jobs with Fields not at least being decent (cause 3 wins gets flus fired for sure). 

[Chisoxfn]

3 hours ago, lostfan said:

Is the Bears' offensive line good? No. It's not

Is Luke Getsy designing game plans to help get the most out of Justin Fields? No... I honestly have no idea what he's even trying to accomplish actually. He's only had 4 designed runs all year, that is coaching malpractice.

That said, first acknowledging those things, Justin's absolutely been a factor in his own failure here. The pass protection isn't great but it doesn't help when Justin stands there for 4 seconds staring at open WRs and doesn't throw the ball. The thing about playing QB is if you're good enough to start in the NFL, you'll see evidence of it even if everything around you is on fire and you're not able to play to your full potential. If you asked me last season if I saw that in Justin Fields I would've said yes, of course, and the list of reasons you'd give for his lack of production wasn't excuses, it was explanations. But now the future is here and he's regressed - some of that is on the coaches, but if you have the goods, you'd do something other than passively sink to the level of mediocrity around you. Fields has out-of-this-world physical tools and he was said to have extremely high intelligence, he's gotta be better than this.

Very well said. And I am with you - I don’t get why when you have a qb with his skill set you aren’t calling 5-10 designed runs per game, another 5-10 bootlegs, and another 5-10 play actions. 

[LittleHurtCG]

17 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

Poles couldn't move Fields based on public perception.  I will say though that they should have known going into this year that this is who he is and what is plan B.

The 49ers have shown that missing on a QB and bad trade is not crippling if other aspects of the organization are working properly.  

The Bears look to be 0-2 in this hunt and the other aspects of the organization are subpar as well.

Hopefully they are getting two high picks next year.  Then they can trade one for additional draft capital.

 

 

Super Bowls are not won based on public perception. If Poles and company still have no idea on whether or not JF is a franchise quarterback, then how can anyone trust them to identify QB talent down the road? 

[Tony]

Yesterday, in the 3pm hour, Waddle and Silvy played an interview they did with Greg Olsen from about 4 months ago, that was super interesting as it basically predicted the future. Olsen talks about his experience with Cam and how you don't want to take "the good" away from someone. We all know Justin can run, one of the best running QB's ever probably. We also know he has an insane amount of work to do in the pocket. But if you have a guy that needs work on something, that doesn't mean that's all you get out of him. Yes, we aren't learning anything by seeing Fields run, but taking the aspect of his game away from him is hurting Fields, and the team. And it's clear they have told him not to scramble, they want him in the pocket. And I just think that's such an "unnatural" request to Fields, it's hurting his growth. 

If you have the time, listen, it's good. 

 

[bigruss]

13 hours ago, lostfan said:

Is the Bears' offensive line good? No. It's not

Is Luke Getsy designing game plans to help get the most out of Justin Fields? No... I honestly have no idea what he's even trying to accomplish actually. He's only had 4 designed runs all year, that is coaching malpractice.

That said, first acknowledging those things, Justin's absolutely been a factor in his own failure here. The pass protection isn't great but it doesn't help when Justin stands there for 4 seconds staring at open WRs and doesn't throw the ball. The thing about playing QB is if you're good enough to start in the NFL, you'll see evidence of it even if everything around you is on fire and you're not able to play to your full potential. If you asked me last season if I saw that in Justin Fields I would've said yes, of course, and the list of reasons you'd give for his lack of production wasn't excuses, it was explanations. But now the future is here and he's regressed - some of that is on the coaches, but if you have the goods, you'd do something other than passively sink to the level of mediocrity around you. Fields has out-of-this-world physical tools and he was said to have extremely high intelligence, he's gotta be better than this.

I agree with this, you still wanted to see more out of Fields even with the faults of the team.

I'm still of belief that Eberfleus is a lame duck coach that should be taking the heat while we rebuild, and then go hire the guy you really want once you've retooled over a few years.   That's the only explanation I have for that hire tbh.  

[LittleHurtCG]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

Yesterday, in the 3pm hour, Waddle and Silvy played an interview they did with Greg Olsen from about 4 months ago, that was super interesting as it basically predicted the future. Olsen talks about his experience with Cam and how you don't want to take "the good" away from someone. We all know Justin can run, one of the best running QB's ever probably. We also know he has an insane amount of work to do in the pocket. But if you have a guy that needs work on something, that doesn't mean that's all you get out of him. Yes, we aren't learning anything by seeing Fields run, but taking the aspect of his game away from him is hurting Fields, and the team. And it's clear they have told him not to scramble, they want him in the pocket. And I just think that's such an "unnatural" request to Fields, it's hurting his growth. 

If you have the time, listen, it's good. 

 

Maybe Fields should be converted to a gadget guy ala Taysom Hill? Fields has no future in the NFL as a quarterback if he can't devlop into a legit pocket passer. 

[bmags]

I do wonder how much better our oline would look if he got the ball out faster. But man, so many players are playing like idiots (claypool game 1, kmet game 2). 

I hope this is the low point, but hard to feel that when this is now 19 games in and they have regressed in so many facets.

That said, there WAS a ton of turnover in the offseason. That may explain the rest. For Justin, I just can't shake that awful 2nd quarter play where he had like 8 seconds to throw and 5 open receivers and just crumbled into the guard.

[Chisoxfn]

47 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Maybe Fields should be converted to a gadget guy ala Taysom Hill? Fields has no future in the NFL as a quarterback if he can't devlop into a legit pocket passer. 

He has no future as a QB if the Bears are trying to force him as a legit pocket passer. It won't work. I think Tony's link about how with Cam you got to let him be.  Heck, look at Big Ben, I can't stand the guy, but if you wanted to put him like full west cost offense, it just wouldn't work.  Big Ben had an offense completely catered around him too.  Lamar Jackson same way.  All of them are unique talents but you can't just put them in a traditional drop back offense and let them work.  Even Josh Allen - that offense was designed to maximize his strength(s).  

Right now - it does not appear to me that the Bears are doing that with Fields, unless sitting him back for the first couple weeks is part of a longer term growth plan (and I don't believe it is).  Unleash Fields and run an offense that exploits his strenghts (cause he absolutely has him) and minimizes his weaknesses.  

We literally have seen 2 straight weeks of the opposite.  It kind of reminds me of the first few weeks of Field(s) season last year, where Getsy tried to force Fields into his thing and than as the season progressed they adjusted.  Why they started off back to square 1 from last year is beyond me - maybe they read too many press clippings or something, I don't know.  

 

[Chisoxfn]

49 minutes ago, bmags said:

I do wonder how much better our oline would look if he got the ball out faster. But man, so many players are playing like idiots (claypool game 1, kmet game 2). 

I hope this is the low point, but hard to feel that when this is now 19 games in and they have regressed in so many facets.

That said, there WAS a ton of turnover in the offseason. That may explain the rest. For Justin, I just can't shake that awful 2nd quarter play where he had like 8 seconds to throw and 5 open receivers and just crumbled into the guard.

What did Kmet do in game 2, other than that one drop on the sideline. I don't even know if I would call it a drop - it was a nice hit by Winfield or whomever the safety was.  I keep reading it so maybe I stepped away for whatever Kmet did that was so bad?  

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

What did Kmet do in game 2, other than that one drop on the sideline. I don't even know if I would call it a drop - it was a nice hit by Winfield or whomever the safety was.  I keep reading it so maybe I stepped away for whatever Kmet did that was so bad?  

he had some horrendous blocks, one play a CB damn near pushes him into the end zone on an end around (they were at midfield). He started in motion and prevented wright from getting out of his stance leading to a block. 

Just so many dumb plays.

[nitetrain8601]

Again, why would you change the whole offense for a guy you don't believe is the guy. It's not like Fields is even releasing the ball when guys are wide open. If Fields isn't the guy, I'm sorry, you don't change the offense for him. Because you lose a year of development for the guys around him trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. And if you win a few meaningless games, you screw yourself in terms of draft pick and may end up on the outside looking in for your new QB.

 

It would be incredibly stupid to change the offense. 

[Balta1701]

25 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Again, why would you change the whole offense for a guy you don't believe is the guy. It's not like Fields is even releasing the ball when guys are wide open. If Fields isn't the guy, I'm sorry, you don't change the offense for him. Because you lose a year of development for the guys around him trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. And if you win a few meaningless games, you screw yourself in terms of draft pick and may end up on the outside looking in for your new QB.

 

It would be incredibly stupid to change the offense. 

First of all, they traded away the #1 pick on a big gamble that "Fields was the guy". So you better find a way to put together a system that works for him.

Second, offenses change all the bloody time. Many teams have to run different offenses if their backup QB comes in, because their starter often has skills that the backup doesn't have. Offenses change when teams change coordinators. Offenses change in the offseason.

The idea that the Bears have an incredible offense that's been in place for 10 years and which has performed so well it shouldn't be adapted to Fields...is Nuts?

[whitesoxfan99]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I do wonder how much better our oline would look if he got the ball out faster. But man, so many players are playing like idiots (claypool game 1, kmet game 2). 

I hope this is the low point, but hard to feel that when this is now 19 games in and they have regressed in so many facets.

That said, there WAS a ton of turnover in the offseason. That may explain the rest. For Justin, I just can't shake that awful 2nd quarter play where he had like 8 seconds to throw and 5 open receivers and just crumbled into the guard.

A ton of the sacks the last two years are on Fields.  He had the same issue at OSU playing with a ridiculous amount of talent.  It isn't coincidence that OSU's sack rate allowed was much higher when Fields was there than with Stroud.

[LittleHurtCG]

1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

He has no future as a QB if the Bears are trying to force him as a legit pocket passer. It won't work. I think Tony's link about how with Cam you got to let him be.  Heck, look at Big Ben, I can't stand the guy, but if you wanted to put him like full west cost offense, it just wouldn't work.  Big Ben had an offense completely catered around him too.  Lamar Jackson same way.  All of them are unique talents but you can't just put them in a traditional drop back offense and let them work.  Even Josh Allen - that offense was designed to maximize his strength(s).  

Right now - it does not appear to me that the Bears are doing that with Fields, unless sitting him back for the first couple weeks is part of a longer term growth plan (and I don't believe it is).  Unleash Fields and run an offense that exploits his strenghts (cause he absolutely has him) and minimizes his weaknesses.  

We literally have seen 2 straight weeks of the opposite.  It kind of reminds me of the first few weeks of Field(s) season last year, where Getsy tried to force Fields into his thing and than as the season progressed they adjusted.  Why they started off back to square 1 from last year is beyond me - maybe they read too many press clippings or something, I don't know.  

 

Again, Fields has no future if he can't develop as a pocket passer. How many running quarterbacks win championships? Go ahead and run the offense like Fields is Cam Newton. Newton never won a ring and is out of football. Dude was always hurt too. Justin Fields is gonna get killed if the Bears treat him like he is Cam Newton. 

26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

First of all, they traded away the #1 pick on a big gamble that "Fields was the guy". So you better find a way to put together a system that works for him.

Second, offenses change all the bloody time. Many teams have to run different offenses if their backup QB comes in, because their starter often has skills that the backup doesn't have. Offenses change when teams change coordinators. Offenses change in the offseason.

The idea that the Bears have an incredible offense that's been in place for 10 years and which has performed so well it shouldn't be adapted to Fields...is Nuts?

Successful franchises do not change offenses all the time and every offseason. Fields has to develop into a better pocket passer and learn how to read defenses and get the ball out quicker. An offense designed around him would have him running the ball 50% of the time. That would be fun to watch, but it will also get Fields killed and won't lead to any Super Bowls. 

[Balta1701]

26 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Successful franchises do not change offenses all the time and every offseason. Fields has to develop into a better pocket passer and learn how to read defenses and get the ball out quicker. An offense designed around him would have him running the ball 50% of the time. That would be fun to watch, but it will also get Fields killed and won't lead to any Super Bowls. 

Is he running 50% right now? He's had 4 designed runs right? So he's had 4 runs and 4 passes in 2 games?

[LittleHurtCG]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Is he running 50% right now? He's had 4 designed runs right? So he's had 4 runs and 4 passes in 2 games?

No is he not. The Bears are trying to work on his ability to throw in the pocket. In order to win a Super Bowl, you need a qb who is an elite pocket passer and who can get the ball out quickly. 

Justin Fields biggest strength are his legs. If the Bears design an offense around his legs, he will be running or throwing out of the pocket at least 75% of the time. That is not a recipe for sustained success in the NFL. 

 

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

First of all, they traded away the #1 pick on a big gamble that "Fields was the guy". So you better find a way to put together a system that works for him.

Second, offenses change all the bloody time. Many teams have to run different offenses if their backup QB comes in, because their starter often has skills that the backup doesn't have. Offenses change when teams change coordinators. Offenses change in the offseason.

The idea that the Bears have an incredible offense that's been in place for 10 years and which has performed so well it shouldn't be adapted to Fields...is Nuts?

This is not true even a little bit.  They can pivot away from Fields immediately as soon as this season ends.  This season was finding out if Fields was the guy, not the declaration that he was the guy.

[Tony]

17 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

No is he not. The Bears are trying to work on his ability to throw in the pocket. In order to win a Super Bowl, you need a qb who is an elite pocket passer and who can get the ball out quickly. 

Justin Fields biggest strength are his legs. If the Bears design an offense around his legs, he will be running or throwing out of the pocket at least 75% of the time. That is not a recipe for sustained success in the NFL. 

 

But I think the issue right now is the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, which is what Olsen was referring to. What it seems like in watching these two games this season, there are strict orders NOT to run, we need to see if you can figure out the pocket, so that's all we want you to do. I get that on paper, but I don't think it's the way to go about it. 

Sort of a weird example, but say the Mariners told Ichrio "Listen, we know you can spray it to all fields, but we need power on this team, so we want you going up there pulling the ball and putting it into the seats every time you go to the plate." That would impact his swing, you would see his HR rate rise but his average fall. And most importantly, that's not who Ichiro was. 

Now, if you put a strategy where you wanted him to work on his HR stroke, but not go all-in and take away what he does best from his game, I think there is a way to accomplish that where it's not so severe. 

Again, there is a lot of nuance here. This is not trying to totally remove blame from Fields. There were multiple times in Game 2 where he had a clean pocket and open receivers, and ended up taking a sack. Can't happen consistency. It's a problem, and he won't be a successful QB if that continues. I also understand the Bears didn't look at this as a playoff year, and they want to be sure of what they have in Fields before making a decision on what to do moving forward. I understand all that. The point is...forcing him to only throw in the pocket and not letting him improvise with his legs when available seems like the wrong approach from a growth or mental standpoint. I don't think it's helping his development. 

[Kyyle23]

24 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

No is he not. The Bears are trying to work on his ability to throw in the pocket. In order to win a Super Bowl, you need a qb who is an elite pocket passer and who can get the ball out quickly. 

Justin Fields biggest strength are his legs. If the Bears design an offense around his legs, he will be running or throwing out of the pocket at least 75% of the time. That is not a recipe for sustained success in the NFL. 

 

When Kaepernick was at his absolute best, he had defenses on a string and they had no idea what he was going to be doing.  The bears had a small run of that last year and that caught all of our attention.  Justin has to find that, the quality that makes defenses pause.

[Tony]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

This is not true even a little bit.  They can pivot away from Fields immediately as soon as this season ends.  This season was finding out if Fields was the guy, not the declaration that he was the guy.

This is correct. Poles created a situation with the Carolina trade to give them a somewhat easy "out" if Fields isn't the guy they want him to be. 

The situation becomes exponentially easier if Fields DOES end up being the guy, as you'll have two first rounders to plug holes instead of using both to get your next QB, but they have options and capital to do what needs to be done.