2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

Caleb Williams/Lincoln Riley or bust!

Riley can't coach defense either.

And bigger problem is that Williams takes lots of chances with his arms and legs that are going to end up as pick 6s or sacks/injuries instead of long runs in the NFL.

Will take a year or two to figure out what he can't get away with.

A lot of similarities with Mahomes in terms of creativity, obviously.

 

[Dick Allen]

13 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Eberflus is just not a head coach in the NFL.  It’s too big for him 

If yesterdays game doesn’t convince Poles, the flus is the wrong guy, nothing will. Most NFL coaches, and all the good ones, don’t come close to losing that game. Everyone knew what was coming once Denver, a team that lost by 50 last week made it 28-14.

[Texsox]

Disappointing

[LittleHurtCG]

5 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

If yesterdays game doesn’t convince Poles, the flus is the wrong guy, nothing will. Most NFL coaches, and all the good ones, don’t come close to losing that game. Everyone knew what was coming once Denver, a team that lost by 50 last week made it 28-14.

Poles is looking more and more like the wrong guy as well unfortuntaely.  2023 was not supposed to be another tank year. 

[SoxAce]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Poles is looking more and more like the wrong guy as well unfortuntaely.  2023 was not supposed to be another tank year. 

They weren't suppose to compete this year either. Everyone knew this team was still a year or two away. But most were banking on Fields to take the next step, the young players to all play well and to FINALLY get over that hump and beat the Packers. So far none of those things have happened. 

[Kyyle23]

56 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

They weren't suppose to compete this year either. Everyone knew this team was still a year or two away. But most were banking on Fields to take the next step, the young players to all play well and to FINALLY get over that hump and beat the Packers. So far none of those things have happened. 

Honestly the one thing I wanted to see this season is some sort of noticeable progressing in any area of the team.  So far looks like more of the same except some areas significantly worse.  That’s why I am out on him, this whole structure and method bullshit he keeps talking about is a goddamn myth 

[Chisoxfn]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

Honestly the one thing I wanted to see this season is some sort of noticeable progressing in any area of the team.  So far looks like more of the same except some areas significantly worse.  That’s why I am out on him, this whole structure and method bullshit he keeps talking about is a goddamn myth 

I don't think he is as bad at the lockeroom as say Trestman, but that doesn't say much.  And I actually respect him going for it on 4th - cause I too knew the defense is a sieve - but it is his defense, his specialty, so that says everything.  The play call though - terrible.  But we lost the game when they played to not lose late in the 3rd quarter on down.  That was on the coaching staff - not going for the kill in those scenarios.  

With that said - I saw way more bright spots out of the game - those are likely bright spots that dissipate immediately when Bears face a decent NFL team in Washington, with a respectable defense. With that said - nothing would make me happier than to see Fields have another 275 yd+ / 3 TD+ passing performance.  

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I don't think he is as bad at the lockeroom as say Trestman, but that doesn't say much.  And I actually respect him going for it on 4th - cause I too knew the defense is a sieve - but it is his defense, his specialty, so that says everything.  The play call though - terrible.  But we lost the game when they played to not lose late in the 3rd quarter on down.  That was on the coaching staff - not going for the kill in those scenarios.  

With that said - I saw way more bright spots out of the game - those are likely bright spots that dissipate immediately when Bears face a decent NFL team in Washington, with a respectable defense. With that said - nothing would make me happier than to see Fields have another 275 yd+ / 3 TD+ passing performance.  

Going for it on 4th isn’t wrong if you decide immediately that this is the play, line up and go for it.  Instead he bluffed, wasted a time out, came back out and telegraphed the play!  Barber immediately called what was gonna happen on the telecast and they got stuffed.  It’s just the little things like knowing what to do and when to do it, and he has failed many times in his short tenure already 

[Chisoxfn]

For the Bears - this is probably one of those week(s) where it is good it is a short week.  But next week might feel real long.  

[Chisoxfn]

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

Going for it on 4th isn’t wrong if you decide immediately that this is the play, line up and go for it.  Instead he bluffed, wasted a time out, came back out and telegraphed the play!  Barber immediately called what was gonna happen on the telecast and they got stuffed.  It’s just the little things like knowing what to do and when to do it, and he has failed many times in his short tenure already 

No doubt - just like the 4th down where they once again gave it to Cole Kmet (and it wasn't like it worked with ease).  They literally have a massive QB - why not just do the Eagles sneak approach if you want to do it and shove Fields across or whatever else.  

I am not defending Flus at all - he is gone at the end of the year. Like it or not - he is here to stay unless they bring in Lovie as some sort of interim coach. They literally have no one who can call the D (not saying Flus is calling it well either).  And you certainly can't promote Getsy. Now if Fields goes out and has like 3-4 straight 3-4 TD game that the team loses by giving up 30+ points - than maybe we can talk about a Getsy promotion haha.  

[bmags]

Sucks they couldn’t have hired Rich Bisaccia like was rumored because that’d have been an easy move

[Kyyle23]

48 minutes ago, bmags said:

Sucks they couldn’t have hired Rich Bisaccia like was rumored because that’d have been an easy move

This operating without a DC for the rest of the season is so bush league 

[Dick Allen]

5 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Going for it on 4th isn’t wrong if you decide immediately that this is the play, line up and go for it.  Instead he bluffed, wasted a time out, came back out and telegraphed the play!  Barber immediately called what was gonna happen on the telecast and they got stuffed.  It’s just the little things like knowing what to do and when to do it, and he has failed many times in his short tenure already 

I didn’t understand burning the time out. Kicking the FG does put a little more pressure on them, but I’m not going to say going for it was a disastrous idea. That defense had given up almost 100 points on less than 2 games at that point, and you make it, you pretty much guarantee victory. The play call at least wasn’t Kmet taking the snap. I was there. I know I shouldn’t be, but I am still shocked they lost.

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I didn’t understand burning the time out. Kicking the FG does put a little more pressure on them, but I’m not going to say going for it was a disastrous idea. That defense had given up almost 100 points on less than 2 games at that point, and you make it, you pretty much guarantee victory. The play call at least wasn’t Kmet taking the snap. I was there. I know I shouldn’t be, but I am still shocked they lost.

Lol they already wasted the cool Kmet run(which almost got stuffed) so they couldn’t do it again

[lostfan]

I posted this in a twitter thread then a longer version on fb so I'll just copy/paste it here

As a general principle you can't (or shouldn't) fire a GM in the NFL, or any sport really, after the amount of time Ryan Poles has been employed by the Bears, because you're asking them to work on a multi-year time frame and it's not reasonable to judge them against that in such a short amount of time. With that being said, if you *were* eventually firing him, he's already checked most of the boxes. For example

-He traded Roquan Smith. In a vacuum, this is defensible, you don't really want to pay an off-ball LB that much money, he's someone who needs to play in a 2-gap system, a 2nd round pick is really good value. But what does Poles do after this? He cancels it out by giving the Steelers his own 2nd (that ends up higher) for Chase Claypool, who does f*** all, and then paying an off-ball LB almost as much as Roquan wanted, instead of...

-...investing in the defensive line and pass rush. Remember, when Poles took over, this wasn't barren, clearing it out to start over was a choice he made - to save a bunch of money he ended up not spending

-And why couldn't he use Roquan in the first place? Because he hired a mid ass defensive coordinator as head coach who runs an antiquated scheme that Roquan doesn't fit in when you have an inexperienced 2nd year QB you *immediately* neglect. And when I say "neglect" I mean literally didn't do a FUCKING thing for until the following offseason

-His head coach's chosen offensive coordinator and QB are a square peg and a round hole. This is obvious to everyone except him (and his head coach).

The only things I believe I can say in Eberflus's defense are that, yes, I understand this wasn't a one-year plan, and that his draft picks still have time to pan out, but Phil Emery was fired for less.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

22 minutes ago, lostfan said:

I posted this in a twitter thread then a longer version on fb so I'll just copy/paste it here

As a general principle you can't (or shouldn't) fire a GM in the NFL, or any sport really, after the amount of time Ryan Poles has been employed by the Bears, because you're asking them to work on a multi-year time frame and it's not reasonable to judge them against that in such a short amount of time. With that being said, if you *were* eventually firing him, he's already checked most of the boxes. For example

-He traded Roquan Smith. In a vacuum, this is defensible, you don't really want to pay an off-ball LB that much money, he's someone who needs to play in a 2-gap system, a 2nd round pick is really good value. But what does Poles do after this? He cancels it out by giving the Steelers his own 2nd (that ends up higher) for Chase Claypool, who does f*** all, and then paying an off-ball LB almost as much as Roquan wanted, instead of...

-...investing in the defensive line and pass rush. Remember, when Poles took over, this wasn't barren, clearing it out to start over was a choice he made - to save a bunch of money he ended up not spending

-And why couldn't he use Roquan in the first place? Because he hired a mid ass defensive coordinator as head coach who runs an antiquated scheme that Roquan doesn't fit in when you have an inexperienced 2nd year QB you *immediately* neglect. And when I say "neglect" I mean literally didn't do a FUCKING thing for until the following offseason

-His head coach's chosen offensive coordinator and QB are a square peg and a round hole. This is obvious to everyone except him (and his head coach).

The only things I believe I can say in Eberflus's defense are that, yes, I understand this wasn't a one-year plan, and that his draft picks still have time to pan out, but Phil Emery was fired for less.

 

 

Poles has done a lot of bad - I go back to - right now, if I were Warren - my focus on evaluating whether Poles needs a quick boot is how the guys he brought in (whether via FA or the draft) do.  I would probably prioritize the draft and focus on major FA spends, since more stop gap moves would have lower overall hit rates.

If by the end of the year - his 2 draft crops and FA moves are looking pretty poor - than yeah, the fact that he cut a bunch of guys and didn't prematurely give up a ton of draft picks and was able to deal the #1 pick for some good assets (which by the way - most GM's could do) isn't going to be enough for me to keep him. 

So long story short - if we don't see real player development this year (some young DB's develop, Brisquer actually be productive, some of the young Dlinemen producing, a hit on our oline picks, etc), than that would be enough for me to end the Poles experience.  

Now if that happens - the question is - what is Warren going to do.  Does he go land a whale like Harbaugh or do something else? I really hope it doesn't get there - but you are right, the Bears absolutely have to evaluate that question pretty quickly in the off-season - because you can't hand what could be 2 extremely high draft picks to someone you don't have complete & utter confidence in.  

I really am hoping we won't be having this debate at the end of the year and instead will be talking about 2 really strong picks and ability to maybe flip one of them for massive assets while still having a ton of assets this year as well, combined with an emerging core, which we are looking to pair with an elite offensive mind and QB (I am assuming not Fields but hoping we see a 275 yd+ / 3 TD+ game on Thursday).  

[Kyyle23]

I think you have to land a whale at this point.  They have done nothing but fucked around with nobodies since Lovie was fired, John Fox included because he was cashing checks at the end.

[lostfan]

2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Poles has done a lot of bad - I go back to - right now, if I were Warren - my focus on evaluating whether Poles needs a quick boot is how the guys he brought in (whether via FA or the draft) do.  I would probably prioritize the draft and focus on major FA spends, since more stop gap moves would have lower overall hit rates.

If by the end of the year - his 2 draft crops and FA moves are looking pretty poor - than yeah, the fact that he cut a bunch of guys and didn't prematurely give up a ton of draft picks and was able to deal the #1 pick for some good assets (which by the way - most GM's could do) isn't going to be enough for me to keep him. 

So long story short - if we don't see real player development this year (some young DB's develop, Brisquer actually be productive, some of the young Dlinemen producing, a hit on our oline picks, etc), than that would be enough for me to end the Poles experience.  

Now if that happens - the question is - what is Warren going to do.  Does he go land a whale like Harbaugh or do something else? 

Off the top of my head his free agent decisions have mostly been disastrous, I really can't think of any that have been worth a s%*#. Nate Davis I'll give a pass for because he's been dealing with a personal situation. Now, in Pole's defense, he did inherit a draft with depleted capital and was strapped for cash in his first year but it's more about where he put all his priorities. What's the point in getting rid of all your best defenders if you do nothing with all the free cap space you had?

[Chisoxfn]

5 minutes ago, lostfan said:

Off the top of my head his free agent decisions have mostly been disastrous, I really can't think of any that have been worth a s%*#. Nate Davis I'll give a pass for because he's been dealing with a personal situation. Now, in Pole's defense, he did inherit a draft with depleted capital and was strapped for cash in his first year but it's more about where he put all his priorities. What's the point in getting rid of all your best defenders if you do nothing with all the free cap space you had?

Who did he get rid of other than Roquan? I may be forgetting someone, but other than that weren't they aging players. I guess Mack had his 6 sack game (was that Poles who made that move or Pace - I don't even remember).  But the defense didn't really have any talent on it.  Quinn was already done when they traded him to Eagles.  

I do think a huge issue on defense is the dline - but what he inherited was awful and it remains just as bad.  We are only 1/4th into the season - if at the end of the year it is this bad and the young Dlinemen haven't shown something - than that is a real problem. But Poles had basically nothing to work with in year 1 and it was clear that this was going to be a multi-year rebuild given how bare Pace left things. 

But Poles made some big mistakes - Claypool being first on that list. I don't know that I'm going to right off Tremaine after 4 games in a new system. Edwards either.  I would like to see what they looked at with a top 15 dline vs. the league worse dline they have.

How much of that struggle is talent vs. scheme - I don't know, but talent is clearly a problem when it comes to the line.  

[Chisoxfn]

8 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I think you have to land a whale at this point.  They have done nothing but fucked around with nobodies since Lovie was fired, John Fox included because he was cashing checks at the end.

I'm curious if he has connections to Riley and/or Harbaugh.  But I also wonder if they would ever actually pay the money for that sort of move.  

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

I'm curious if he has connections to Riley and/or Harbaugh.  But I also wonder if they would ever actually pay the money for that sort of move.  

I’m sure as B10 commish he has inroads to Harbaugh if he wished

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

Who did he get rid of other than Roquan? I may be forgetting someone, but other than that weren't they aging players. I guess Mack had his 6 sack game (was that Poles who made that move or Pace - I don't even remember).  But the defense didn't really have any talent on it.  Quinn was already done when they traded him to Eagles.  

I really have no problem with them getting rid of Roquan, other than Mack he's the one traded away. 

I'm counting Edmunds, Edwards, Ngakoue, Billings, Walker, and Cole as defensive free agents signed by the Bears this year. One of them is a backup sure, but that's over $30 million in 2023 cap space on new defensive additions. 

I've said before I'm not expecting perfection out of this team, or even an elite defense. They are the second worst scoring defense and would be the worst if not for literally 1 game played by the Broncos. They are the 6th worst defense in yards/game, 4th worst in passing yards/game. Their ongoing streak of 25+point games is easy to note. Are they getting sufficient production out of this spending? 

[lostfan]

I hated the John Fox hire so much. About the only thing good from that time was that he had a lot of good connections so the Gase/Fangio combination was good, and Gase got a good year out of Cutler, but he got hired away after a year so it was a moot point. Sure, he did bring some stability back to the team after it collapsed under Trestman, but any decently qualified coach could've done that. Fox was the same coach from Carolina that was stuck in the 90s and he lucked into Peyton Manning having a career resurgence in Denver, that had f*** all to do with his influence there (in fact I think his conservative coaching style held them back in the playoffs, if anything).

[scs787]

14 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I'm curious if he has connections to Riley and/or Harbaugh.  But I also wonder if they would ever actually pay the money for that sort of move.  

Lincoln Rileys agent is......Trace Armstrong.  

[Chicago White Sox]

The Giants may be worse than the Bears.  They’re a real threat for the 1.01 if that O-Line continues to play like they did tonight.