ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, bmags said: While I cannot rule out he'll want full control, that perception has clearly prevented him from a job prior. He has hired an agent, which he did not do prior either. If he gets the full gig, I'll say it wasn't the time. But Poles is coming from a place that he could point to for why not to take up that control: Reid gave up that control and found great success with the personnel men that Poles came from. But you can't blame Harbaugh after getting run around like he did prior. I think if anything some silly structure like GB put in place where both Poles and Harbaugh report directly to Warren could happen. I don't blame Harbaugh at all for trying to get what he can. I just don't the the fit here with the current situation. That why I think the Chargers are the best fit with them having fired everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, bmags said: I don't take that DC stuff for granted, but more important to me is he has shown an ability do develop players. Chris Morgan has done a good job with Jenkins/Wright/Jones. There is just a lack of overall talent on that line. The DBs were great. The WR...well that's where I'd get rid of Getsy/Tolbert and get a better set of coaches there, including for passing coordinator. Agreed. I think Eberflus as shown good improvement as a HC. He has had issues but all coaches do especially early on. The OC in the other hand is always an interesting debate. How much of the ay calling was him vs. Eberflus dictating how he wants the game plan. How much of the play calling was dictated by the porous OL and the lack of protection. It didn't seem to be a smooth operation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 6 minutes ago, ptatc said: I don't blame Harbaugh at all for trying to get what he can. I just don't the the fit here with the current situation. That why I think the Chargers are the best fit with them having fired everyone. Which is what the Bears should do. Instead, we will have another lame duck coaching staff advising on QB decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 17 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Which is what the Bears should do. Instead, we will have another lame duck coaching staff advising on QB decisions. It's not just the coaching staff, it's the stripping the GM of power as well. If he would only take coaching responsibility it may be worth it but from reports he wants GM personnel power too. Edited January 9 by ptatc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ptatc said: It's not just the coaching staff, it's the stripping the GM of power as well. If he would only take coaching responsibility it may be worth it but from reports he wants GM personnel power too. I’m fine with that. Give me the guy that turned around a 49ers team and went 49–22–1 in his time there. Harbaugh is more of a proven winner in the NFL than either Poles or Eberflus. Edited January 9 by WhiteSox2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 10 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I’m fine with that. Give me the guy that turned around a 49ers team and went 49–22–1 in his time there. Harbaugh is more of a proven winner in the NFL than either Poles or Eberflus. That's fair. I think that Poles has shown good promise over the last couple of years. I don't think the organizational structure of one person controlling everything will be effective for any length of time in the NFL today. The Bears will start over while he revamps the roster to what he wants. And I don't think the team needs that right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: That's fair. I think that Poles has shown good promise over the last couple of years. I don't think the organizational structure of one person controlling everything will be effective for any length of time in the NFL today. The Bears will start over while he revamps the roster to what he wants. And I don't think the team needs that right now. For sure. I would expect him to keep adding to the trenches. Pretty sure he’s prioritizing being the meanest, nastiest team at the line. Let the children drool over the skill positions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 If the Bears do pursue Harbaugh, and depending on what you read they will pursue him, they would shitcan the entire staff before the ink dries on Harbaugh's contract. I can't imagine Harbaugh wanting to come to the NFL and not have full control of all decisions. Would the Bears allow that? This Bears team is not too far away from contending. Bringing in Harbaugh and a staff of his choice along with the great draft positioning they have could make them a threat in the NFC North instantly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, hogan873 said: If the Bears do pursue Harbaugh, and depending on what you read they will pursue him, they would shitcan the entire staff before the ink dries on Harbaugh's contract. I can't imagine Harbaugh wanting to come to the NFL and not have full control of all decisions. Would the Bears allow that? This Bears team is not too far away from contending. Bringing in Harbaugh and a staff of his choice along with the great draft positioning they have could make them a threat in the NFC North instantly. This is going to be the case whether they keep Eberflus or go with someone else - Regardless of the team around them, it is common for a rookie QB to have some bad games, even a bad season, then take a step forward in year 2. If the Bears draft Williams, the standard for success and for evaluating the coaching staff in 2024 can't be "did they make the playoffs". They could very well do everything right next year, be on a path to a #1 seed in 2025, and drop to 5 or 6 wins with two losses to the Packers next year if their QB has some growing pains or gets hurt for a part of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: For sure. I would expect him to keep adding to the trenches. Pretty sure he’s prioritizing being the meanest, nastiest team at the line. Let the children drool over the skill positions I don't disagree with focusing on the lines. That's always my priority. I just think he will want too much change and the team will go back to square one again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 10 minutes ago, ptatc said: That's fair. I think that Poles has shown good promise over the last couple of years. I don't think the organizational structure of one person controlling everything will be effective for any length of time in the NFL today. The Bears will start over while he revamps the roster to what he wants. And I don't think the team needs that right now. Agreed on Poles but you have a chance at a franchise-changing leader and the Bears should take the leap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Just now, Balta1701 said: This is going to be the case whether they keep Eberflus or go with someone else - Regardless of the team around them, it is common for a rookie QB to have some bad games, even a bad season, then take a step forward in year 2. If the Bears draft Williams, the standard for success and for evaluating the coaching staff in 2024 can't be "did they make the playoffs". They could very well do everything right next year, be on a path to a #1 seed in 2025, and drop to 5 or 6 wins with two losses to the Packers next year if their QB has some growing pains or gets hurt for a part of the year. I don't think it will be the same case if they keep the same personnel people in place. They have their vision and have been building it for a couple of years. Of course the new QB will struggle but if the rest of the team is changing as well, they whole team will be chaos and no consistency around the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Agreed on Poles but you have a chance at a franchise-changing leader and the Bears should take the leap. That's fair. I just disagree that he will be that for any appriciable length of time and not throw the team into chaos for the next couple of years. Edited January 9 by ptatc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Just now, ptatc said: I don't think it will be the same case if they keep the same personnel people in place. They have their vision and have been building it for a couple of years. Of course the new QB will struggle but if the rest of the team is changing as well, they whole team will be chaos and no consistency around the QB. So their QB struggles but you still think they should be able to make the playoffs because otherwise the same people are there? Naw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: This is going to be the case whether they keep Eberflus or go with someone else - Regardless of the team around them, it is common for a rookie QB to have some bad games, even a bad season, then take a step forward in year 2. If the Bears draft Williams, the standard for success and for evaluating the coaching staff in 2024 can't be "did they make the playoffs". They could very well do everything right next year, be on a path to a #1 seed in 2025, and drop to 5 or 6 wins with two losses to the Packers next year if their QB has some growing pains or gets hurt for a part of the year. It will be very interesting to see what they do at QB. There hasn't been any convincing news or rumors whether they're sticking with Fields or going after Williams. That could also depend on if they bring in a new head coach, Harbaugh or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, hogan873 said: It will be very interesting to see what they do at QB. There hasn't been any convincing news or rumors whether they're sticking with Fields or going after Williams. That could also depend on if they bring in a new head coach, Harbaugh or not. I would very much expect the Bears to keep this up in the air through April, because of the game I played last night. It is entirely possible that some team in this draft could decide to do something stupid and give up a Herschel Walker package (8 draft picks, 3 firsts/3 seconds, a couple players) for Williams. The Browns, for example, gave up 3 first round picks for DeShaun Watson while he was suspended and then signed him to a fully guaranteed deal. In a league where a team will do that for Watson, what might they do for a QB with a rookie contract? While it isn't guaranteed that a team will do this, there is no reason to commit to what they're doing this year until they have everyone's "last ditch, post-free-agency" trade offers available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: So their QB struggles but you still think they should be able to make the playoffs because otherwise the same people are there? Naw. I think they are on a good path to make that happen. Add 2 first round picks and the players added with FA money available. If Harbaugh comes in and revamps the entire team, it may be longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 18 minutes ago, hogan873 said: It will be very interesting to see what they do at QB. There hasn't been any convincing news or rumors whether they're sticking with Fields or going after Williams. That could also depend on if they bring in a new head coach, Harbaugh or not. It will make a difference with him having personnel control. He would be the one making that decision. If can't see him waiting until after the draft to accept a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I would very much expect the Bears to keep this up in the air through April, because of the game I played last night. It is entirely possible that some team in this draft could decide to do something stupid and give up a Herschel Walker package (8 draft picks, 3 firsts/3 seconds, a couple players) for Williams. The Browns, for example, gave up 3 first round picks for DeShaun Watson while he was suspended and then signed him to a fully guaranteed deal. In a league where a team will do that for Watson, what might they do for a QB with a rookie contract? While it isn't guaranteed that a team will do this, there is no reason to commit to what they're doing this year until they have everyone's "last ditch, post-free-agency" trade offers available. No doubt. If someone offers a crazy package like that, they need to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: I think they are on a good path to make that happen. Add 2 first round picks and the players added with FA money available. If Harbaugh comes in and revamps the entire team, it may be longer. And if their #1 pick QB struggles as a rookie it's fine, bench him? Or are you playing Fields for the year and leaving him on the bench that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: And if their #1 pick QB struggles as a rookie it's fine, bench him? Or are you playing Fields for the year and leaving him on the bench that way? You play him and live with the inconsistency with the goal that he will be better for it in 2025. In this scenario they trade Fields so it's not an option. If they draft a QB at 1, they need to trade Fields. They may not be playoff ready next year but I think they are on a path for sustained success soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, ptatc said: And restarting the whole organization again with Harbaugh in charge of everything is going make them great? I know I'm in the minority but I think it's the players that make teams win or lose. Coaches can get more out of players but it's ultimately on the players. I'm not a fan of singular people having control. I don't want Harbaugh to be the GM and Coach. I don't think it works. It is where Belicheck got into all his issues, but its where Warren and Poles have to be clear and have right connections to connect the dots, persay. I also don't think I'd cut Flus lose for anyone - I think if you do it, you are doing it because you can get an elite guy. If you don't think you can - I don't think you make the move. I don't think the coaching carousel is the same as the QB carousel. Meaning - Bears have #1 pick - so their thought process on QB has to be different than if they were sitting with the 20th pick in the draft and had Fields. I do think if I were the Bears - I'm all in on drafting Caleb - as long as his work ethic and attitude in the lockeroom check out. If there are red flags there, than I don't care how talented he is, I'm not taking him. At QB, you can have no question marks when it comes to leadership and work ethic, none. People say oh he is just like Fields but smaller. No - Caleb moves the pocket like the best of them and his eyes are always downfield. He does sometimes hold the ball too long, but its a different mentality. Caleb has tons of film of him throwing guys open - his issue is he is always big game hunting, but even than, his attempt to INT ratio is stellar, especially given limitations within his line and the fact that everyone in the world knew the Trojan had to score 40-50 per week to win. The film on Caleb is great - but you do have to harness him and his fumbles are an issue, but I suspect good NFL coaching and continued work can help him there (teaching better ball security is much different than teaching someone who is slow to process and read defenses to somehow get faster). I liken it to - some people are elite at math and some people can work really hard and get to a certain point, but no matter what can't get to the more complex stuff. They just aren't wired that way. Just like some people can look at a few things and come up with a masterpiece design and others no matter how hard they try can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: You play him and live with the inconsistency with the goal that he will be better for it in 2025. In this scenario they trade Fields so it's not an option. If they draft a QB at 1, they need to trade Fields. They may not be playoff ready next year but I think they are on a path for sustained success soon. That's literally what I said, that a young QB might make it impossible for them to make the playoffs even if they've done everything else right, then you said "No they should be on a good path to make the playoffs happen". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, bmags said: I don't take that DC stuff for granted, but more important to me is he has shown an ability do develop players. Chris Morgan has done a good job with Jenkins/Wright/Jones. There is just a lack of overall talent on that line. The DBs were great. The WR...well that's where I'd get rid of Getsy/Tolbert and get a better set of coaches there, including for passing coordinator. Its that exact reason why I am not sitting there saying get rid of Flus no matter what. Right now - my answer is - if you can get a strong, once in 5+ year experienced hire, you go do it. Whether that is Beli or Harbaugh (working with Poles and Warren), than I do it. If Tomlin were let go - you go get him. Otherwise - I don't think I'm making a move this year with Flus. In fact - I have thought about the whole multiple OC thing a few times and reality is, I think the most important part is having the GM in the building who had the conviction on the QB. The HC having that conviction almost doesn't matter anymore cause coach clock(s) have gotten so short. Look at Carolina (poor example) - but they drafted QB at 1 and the HC stunk so they will have a new HC (no different than if you keep Flus and hire a new OC to work with the #1 pick and than make a change at HC in a year). Or Jacksonville with Trevor and Meyer and then that switch. Chargers with Herbert have gone through a slew. Again - not the best examples - because the teams are lousy. But Josh Allen has had a handful more recently. Hurts has had all kinds of change in offensive coaches. Mahomes is the only one with a ton of stability on staff - even than they have had changes (but obviously Reid stands out). Russel Wilson had more than a few (this is going back to prime Russel - not Denver Bronco Russel). You kind of have your Reid, Shanny, McVay as the 3 consistent offensive guru's. I'm kind of more in the camp of - you build a good team so a foundation is there. Having the foundation improves the liklihood that your QB hits - but at the same time - great QB's transcend can overcome a ton. I think the foundation for Bears is superior today for a young QB to come in and succeed than at any point in my life (sans the Lovie run - there was stability and culture there). Its why after a lot of thought - as much as I want another playmaker, I really believe my first 2 picks are QB and LT (whatever order - doesn't matter to me - presuming one of the LT's is there at 9 and the Bears have graded them out as future pro bowl LT's). If you can solve the LT/RT situation for the next 10 years - that gives you a heck of a foundation for your young QB (or any QB). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: That's literally what I said, that a young QB might make it impossible for them to make the playoffs even if they've done everything else right, then you said "No they should be on a good path to make the playoffs happen". I thought you meant for the next few years not just isolated to next year. I agree that a rookie QB may keep them from the playoffs but I don't think it's a given with the progress they've made with the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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