2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[Flash Tizzle]

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

I'll give the media their credit. They asked a lot of uncomfortable and guided questions to Poles to try and extract his thought process. The Stroud questions were very awkward, but it's something that every fan should be asking Poles. How can we trust you to make the right decision scouting-wise with the #1 pick if you missed out on Stroud? 

It’s one of the most important questions concerning their draft evaluation skills. If they graded Fields above Stroud, well they were wrong and have to learn from it. What happens If we trade down and any of the top QB’s (but especially Maye or Williams) meet their expectations. You cannot say “no one could have predicted it,” either. When literally those two have been 1A, 1B for a year. I know Bears fans usually cope with such devastating draft oversights by saying, “oh, well, they would not have been the player they are right now in the Bears organization.” Again, no excuse. You had an opportunity to revamp the entire organization and preparation for one of the top quarterbacks. 

Unless….Fields takes an unprecedented step forward and becomes a Top 10 quarterback when no metric has suggested it is likely. But whatever they choose, just….get it right. That’s all we ask

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Flash Tizzle said:

It’s one of the most important questions concerning their draft evaluation skills. If they graded Fields above Stroud, well they were wrong and have to learn from it. What happens If we trade down and any of the top QB’s (but especially Maye or Williams) meet their expectations. You cannot say “no one could have predicted it,” either. When literally those two have been 1A, 1B for a year. I know Bears fans usually cope with such devastating draft oversights by saying, “oh, well, they would not have been the player they are right now in the Bears organization.” Again, no excuse. You had an opportunity to revamp the entire organization and preparation for one of the top quarterbacks. 

Unless….Fields takes an unprecedented step forward and becomes a Top 10 quarterback when no metric has suggested it is likely. But whatever they choose, just….get it right. That’s all we ask

I can't see how anyone would grade fields above stroud. 

They chose the draft pick capital and Moore over stroud/young. For their situation they needed the capital. Different situation this year. 

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I can't see how anyone would grade fields above stroud. 

They chose the draft pick capital and Moore over stroud/young. For their situation they needed the capital. Different situation this year. 

I mean, CJ Stroud clearly had a lot of question marks last year, that's why he didn't go #1. He was a solid QB prospect but compared to Williams for example, the hype is night and day. Stroud was "he's got a shot to be a strong QB but we'll see". Caleb Williams was "Suck for Luck" level of hype, we've been hearing about him as the obvious #1 pick and he's been analyzed at that level for 2 years. Fields vs. Stroud I can see it being a narrow choice after Fields was pretty darn good on a team surrounded by horrible weapons in 2022.

Just an example, these aren't hard to find:

Quote

SCOUTING REPORT: SUMMARY

Stroud has the size, arm strength, elite overall accuracy, ability to throw from the pocket, and a pretty much perfect release you look for in a prototypical NFL QB. He's put up sensational numbers while starting for the Buckeyes and won an almost endless series of awards.

He isn't the perfect prospect however and has some issues with his game. Stroud isn't elusive in any way and struggles to get outside the pocket while trying to escape the pass rush. This is demonstrated by a subpar QB rating of just 76.0 when under pressure. He however did put some of these doubts to bed after a fantastic CFP semifinal where he displayed a new previously hidden elusiveness.

Stroud will likely be taken in the top 10 of the 2023 NFL Draft and could quite easily become a pro-bowl player given the right situation, however, could equally struggle on a poor team as he's not shown he's the kind of player who can win games by himself.

 

[ptatc]

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I mean, CJ Stroud clearly had a lot of question marks last year, that's why he didn't go #1. He was a solid QB prospect but compared to Williams for example, the hype is night and day. Stroud was "he's got a shot to be a strong QB but we'll see". Caleb Williams was "Suck for Luck" level of hype, we've been hearing about him as the obvious #1 pick and he's been analyzed at that level for 2 years. Fields vs. Stroud I can see it being a narrow choice after Fields was pretty darn good on a team surrounded by horrible weapons in 2022.

Just an example, these aren't hard to find:

 

I think it's the same as our discussion about this year's pick. Fields can be good. But anyone valued as a top 2 pick in the draft is going to have the chance to be an elite player. 

[Chicago White Sox]

5 hours ago, bmags said:

Ok so if we can agree that the pool is all unemployed, non-playcalling OCs, and positions underneath OCs, I think, I think my ranking would be : 
1. Shane Waldron (comes from McVay, should be fine with Chris Morgan, excellent work at Seattle)
2. Eric Bienemy (Downside is he if he is like Nagy, he runs inside zone and Nagy preferred Beef. Not sure what Bienemy did, but he was the one who really started to create a run game post-Nagy)
3. Ken Dorsey - just extremely like the bills offense that he had put together. THey had no run game under Daboll, he put a lot of work together that saw fruition this year despite the turnovers. Yes...that team is mostly Allen though.

4. Liem Cohen - Playcaller at UK who has twice worked under McVay as QB coach and passing coordinator. Worked with Levis in his best year.
5. Zac Robinson - McVay QB coach and Passing Game Coordinator, worked under both Cohen and Mike LaFleur
6. Mike LaFleur - docked for his time in NYJ...but that may make him the perfect get. He also is probably most likely to take this to jumpstart his career again. While work with Wilson wasn't inspiring...Zach Wilson sucks.
7. Brian Callahan - Skeptical he'd take this, but I gained a lot of respect for Bengals this year. Crazy SoS, and the thought was always that Zac Taylor was a weak coach and burrow transformed them. That offense was humming with Browning still.
8. Darrell Bevell - HC era seems to have passed him by, but 2 years under McDaniel and extensive career seems perfect. Honestly seems like a Daboll situation.
9. Chris Foerster - OL/Run Game Coordinator for 49ers. Could likely bring a strong QB coach/passing game coordinator, but a pairing of OL coaches could be great option.
10. Arthur Smith - I just remembered again late that he is here but probably top 4. Didn't have it as HC but prior to this year had a very efficient offense. How he gets his hand in choosing a top QB which he lacked in ATL.
10. Greg Olson (discussed)
11. Kliff Kingsbury - Didn't like his air raid nfl offense, but a year under Riley may bring some exciting wrinkles. Paired with a good Run Game coordinator could be interesting.
12. Klint Kubiak - didn't love his offense at all in MN, but now he's seasoned under shanahan. If you can tell, I prefer the McVay tree to the shanahan tree

The good news here, though I don't think 1-2 , 7 or 10 are feasible, is these are actually damn good hires. Anyone on this list I'd say...we got better. Olson probably most controversial.

One thing that sucks is I really want to put Byron Leftwich. I love that Arians offense. Maybe you interview him and he has a good discussion on why it didn't work. While last year with Brady was disappointing, this year showed that the offense still had lots of skill talent and the oline was in shambles the year prior. Hope he gets another shot, makes me nervous here.

Totally ok with Jerrod Johnson but makes me nervous as he only has 2 years really in coaching.

Pep Hamilton is an ok candidate, just outside my fringe. Like Olson - really never had great talent. 

Also still intrigued on Mike Kafka. Doesn't have playcalling. This year was a mess but ...rebounded. That OL regressed and clearly had a bad OL coach which is never a good look on the OC but when Daboll is running it, who knows.
 

Looks like you should be happy

[Chicago White Sox]

 

[chw42]

30 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

 

That's a good start. Whether or not he'll settle for a lateral move when there are a ton of HC openings though, I don't know. 

[pcq]

I see Fields emerging as Josh Allen Jr. so go for broke around your QB. Josh leads the world in scoring and turnovers. Gives the game away in the first half and takes it back in the second. Small market team seems to always have 5-6 games of national interest because their brand of football is exciting. Grow some balls and go for it Bears. 

[SoxAce]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

 

 

If he's bringing McVay's offense with him, I would absolutely love this move. 

Edited January 11 by SoxAce

[WhiteSox2023]

8 hours ago, ptatc said:

I can't see how anyone would grade fields above stroud. 

They chose the draft pick capital and Moore over stroud/young. For their situation they needed the capital. Different situation this year. 

The Bears definitely underestimated Stroud’s ability, just like the Panthers did.  Knowing what we all know now, the Bears obviously take Stroud at number one over Moore and the draft capital.  This is the point @Flash Tizzle is making.  Why didn’t the Bears evaluators know that Stroud would be so good and better than Fields?  And his point is also that they better get it right this time with the same #1 overall pick and several QB options.

Edited January 11 by WhiteSox2023

[The Beast]

13 hours ago, bmags said:

Ok so if we can agree that the pool is all unemployed, non-playcalling OCs, and positions underneath OCs, I think, I think my ranking would be : 
1. Shane Waldron (comes from McVay, should be fine with Chris Morgan, excellent work at Seattle)
2. Eric Bienemy (Downside is he if he is like Nagy, he runs inside zone and Nagy preferred Beef. Not sure what Bienemy did, but he was the one who really started to create a run game post-Nagy)
3. Ken Dorsey - just extremely like the bills offense that he had put together. THey had no run game under Daboll, he put a lot of work together that saw fruition this year despite the turnovers. Yes...that team is mostly Allen though.

4. Liem Cohen - Playcaller at UK who has twice worked under McVay as QB coach and passing coordinator. Worked with Levis in his best year.
5. Zac Robinson - McVay QB coach and Passing Game Coordinator, worked under both Cohen and Mike LaFleur
6. Mike LaFleur - docked for his time in NYJ...but that may make him the perfect get. He also is probably most likely to take this to jumpstart his career again. While work with Wilson wasn't inspiring...Zach Wilson sucks.
7. Brian Callahan - Skeptical he'd take this, but I gained a lot of respect for Bengals this year. Crazy SoS, and the thought was always that Zac Taylor was a weak coach and burrow transformed them. That offense was humming with Browning still.
8. Darrell Bevell - HC era seems to have passed him by, but 2 years under McDaniel and extensive career seems perfect. Honestly seems like a Daboll situation.
9. Chris Foerster - OL/Run Game Coordinator for 49ers. Could likely bring a strong QB coach/passing game coordinator, but a pairing of OL coaches could be great option.
10. Arthur Smith - I just remembered again late that he is here but probably top 4. Didn't have it as HC but prior to this year had a very efficient offense. How he gets his hand in choosing a top QB which he lacked in ATL.
10. Greg Olson (discussed)
11. Kliff Kingsbury - Didn't like his air raid nfl offense, but a year under Riley may bring some exciting wrinkles. Paired with a good Run Game coordinator could be interesting.
12. Klint Kubiak - didn't love his offense at all in MN, but now he's seasoned under shanahan. If you can tell, I prefer the McVay tree to the shanahan tree

The good news here, though I don't think 1-2 , 7 or 10 are feasible, is these are actually damn good hires. Anyone on this list I'd say...we got better. Olson probably most controversial.

One thing that sucks is I really want to put Byron Leftwich. I love that Arians offense. Maybe you interview him and he has a good discussion on why it didn't work. While last year with Brady was disappointing, this year showed that the offense still had lots of skill talent and the oline was in shambles the year prior. Hope he gets another shot, makes me nervous here.

Totally ok with Jerrod Johnson but makes me nervous as he only has 2 years really in coaching.

Pep Hamilton is an ok candidate, just outside my fringe. Like Olson - really never had great talent. 

Also still intrigued on Mike Kafka. Doesn't have playcalling. This year was a mess but ...rebounded. That OL regressed and clearly had a bad OL coach which is never a good look on the OC but when Daboll is running it, who knows.
 

I had to look up some of these names to see who you were talking about so this is a great deep dive on potential OCs. Waldron and Bienemy would be numbers one and two and arguments could be made for Dorsey, Bevell, Smith, Kingsbury, Kubiak, Leftwich, Kafka, Moore and even Reich. Hopefully they hire Waldron.

Edited January 11 by The Beast

[caulfield12]

48 minutes ago, The Beast said:

I had to look up some of these names to see who you were talking about so this is a great deep dive on potential OCs. Waldron and Bienemy would be numbers one and two and arguments could be made for Dorsey, Bevell, Smith, Kingsbury, Kubiak, Leftwich, Kafka, Moore and even Reich. Hopefully they hire Waldron.

No concerns over all the issues Bienemy has had in WASH?

Assuming the connection is transforming Williams into another  version of Mahomes in KC?

[WhiteSox2023]

 

[bmags]

19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

No concerns over all the issues Bienemy has had in WASH?

Assuming the connection is transforming Williams into another  version of Mahomes in KC?

That was one of the worst lines in the league and at one point he had the most passing yards. They had some good skill talent, but yes when it comes to creating a passing offense…Bienemy clearly has it.

[bmags]

58 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

No concerns over all the issues Bienemy has had in WASH?

Assuming the connection is transforming Williams into another  version of Mahomes in KC?

eesh. Not gonna lie their numbers were WAY worse than I expected.

[Kyyle23]

While I am no New England fan, I was in the building when Brady and Belicheck won the first title so I do have a soft spot for them.  What an incredible run that none of us are likely to ever see again

[LittleHurtCG]

5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The Bears definitely underestimated Stroud’s ability, just like the Panthers did.  Knowing what we all know now, the Bears obviously take Stroud at number one over Moore and the draft capital.  This is the point @Flash Tizzle is making.  Why didn’t the Bears evaluators know that Stroud would be so good and better than Fields?  And his point is also that they better get it right this time with the same #1 overall pick and several QB options.

This is the question I keep asking. It seems evaluating and drafting college quarterbacks is a bit like stepping up to the roulette wheel. Put your stack on black and close your eyes and hope for the best. 

[bmags]

41 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

While I am no New England fan, I was in the building when Brady and Belicheck won the first title so I do have a soft spot for them.  What an incredible run that none of us are likely to ever see again

Their partnership where Belichek could just figure out the defense no matter what, and Brady could figure out the offense no matter what, will never be seen again.

Will be hard for people to understand just how non discussed pats were every year in 2010s during regular season only to frustrate the top stories in the playoffs en route to a championship.

[Dick Allen]

7 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The Bears definitely underestimated Stroud’s ability, just like the Panthers did.  Knowing what we all know now, the Bears obviously take Stroud at number one over Moore and the draft capital.  This is the point @Flash Tizzle is making.  Why didn’t the Bears evaluators know that Stroud would be so good and better than Fields?  And his point is also that they better get it right this time with the same #1 overall pick and several QB options.

A Texans beat writer said the Texans preferred Young over Stroud. So sometimes you just have to get lucky.

[Dick Allen]

Bears are playing a "home" game in London next season.

[MexSoxFan#1]

3 hours ago, LittleHurtCG said:

This is the question I keep asking. It seems evaluating and drafting college quarterbacks is a bit like stepping up to the roulette wheel. Put your stack on black and close your eyes and hope for the best. 

This is why I'm mostly on the "let's trade down and accumulate draft picks, surround JF with weapons, a competent OC and give him one last shot" camp. I mean he does have a league best 146 QB passer rating to DJ Moore, imagine MHJ, another good WR picked up in FA and Kmet, with a better OLine and a decent OC...I really do believe he can be a better passer, he certainly has the arm and has a nice touch on long passes...and if he somehow still can't put it together, we've built a nice foundation for the next QB and have the draft capital to move up in next year's draft, albeit it won't be #1. I'm just nervous we'll get the wrong guy and see another rebuild go to waste. Bears are already on the cusp of having a legit championship level defense, let's focus on upgrading the DL and the offense. 

My two cents.

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Bears are playing a "home" game in London next season.

I'm trying to get out to an NFL game per year...where I see the Bears...usually on the road, but using it to kind of target a new city for our family to visit including a game day.  This would be a fun one but I think I heard the ticket price(s) are nuts.  

[bmags]

15 minutes ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

This is why I'm mostly on the "let's trade down and accumulate draft picks, surround JF with weapons, a competent OC and give him one last shot" camp. I mean he does have a league best 146 QB passer rating to DJ Moore, imagine MHJ, another good WR picked up in FA and Kmet, with a better OLine and a decent OC...I really do believe he can be a better passer, he certainly has the arm and has a nice touch on long passes...and if he somehow still can't put it together, we've built a nice foundation for the next QB and have the draft capital to move up in next year's draft, albeit it won't be #1. I'm just nervous we'll get the wrong guy and see another rebuild go to waste. Bears are already on the cusp of having a legit championship level defense, let's focus on upgrading the DL and the offense. 

My two cents.

While true, Moore is usually his first read, and he often only throws when open, and moore is good at catching. But it's missing the "why isn't justin throwing it" throws. His lower rating to others are indeed bad receivers, but also him throwing later in the progressions on more difficult reads.

[Chisoxfn]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

While true, Moore is usually his first read, and he often only throws when open, and moore is good at catching. But it's missing the "why isn't justin throwing it" throws. His lower rating to others are indeed bad receivers, but also him throwing later in the progressions on more difficult reads.

Very rarely do you see him throw guys open - like very rarely.  My favorite ball all game was a pass over middle to St. Brown. If he consistently hit that pass - dang he would be dangerous and given fact someone has to spy Fields - the middle of the field SHOULD be open yet Bears can't take advantage of it at all - despite having a number of guys who should be good in the slot/middle of field (Moore / Mooney / Scott / Kmet). All of those guys are middle of the field options.  

[Chisoxfn]

PS: Not saying that the non Mooney guys are any good. Mooney - I just don't know how much the injury impacted him. Did he loose that much speed or what? Cause he was a darn good #2 up until his injury so I don't' know what to think about his dissapearance (but he was a 1K receiver with some other seasons close to it before the dissapearing act).  I kind of expect he'll bounce back next year wherever he ends up - as he'll have a normal off-season to recover and regain his health, but I recall some concerns around his injury and how it would impact his game (given he relied on elite quickness).