2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[nitetrain8601]

3 hours ago, SoxAce said:

 

I wouldn't say that's all he wanted. With that stated, it's hard to evaluate the secondary with such a horrid front 7. When they had a good front 7, that secondary looked legit. I do think Poles/Flus missed on Tremaine Edmunds. He's a nice player, but not a difference maker and they overpaid for him. Yannick is a mercenary for hire, but he needs help. 

They still have more holes to fill than not on defense. 

3 hours ago, bmags said:

Eh, obviously this is an indictment of Eberflus when he highlights "teaching" and his scheme. however, disagree that you can't blame Poles for this. He could have still taken Carter last year, could have still taken Pickens. Packers found a new starting LT in round 5 last year that is outperforming Jones. Everyone looks mid so far.

There's no way you could take Carter. They don't have the team for him. Fields is a leader, and he's completely lost. They asked Flus and Williams who were leaders of the defense and they answered Tremaine Edmunds, a FA pickup. He hasn't been in that locker room long enough. I understand the talent, but Carter had motor questions and definite questions about his personality.

 

Pickens, maybe. But gain, the Bears have a good Oline who are looking bad due to their QB holding onto the ball far too long. OLine is not a problem, like at all, in my estimation. Bears rank 8th in terms of time given to the QB in the league. That means they are in the upper 25% of the league. The QB sucking makes the unit look worse, and they're not even at 100% yet. 

2 hours ago, Milkman delivers said:

Not sure how you square the team taking a massive step back and not also be out on Poles. If you want to blame the defense of Eberflus, you still have a terrible offense as well.

 

With regards to the draft, they might legitimately have the top two picks or two of the top three. They might be able to land Williams and Harrison.

Agreed. You must take both.

[Chicago White Sox]

If we can somehow land Williams, then give him everything in your power to ensure he’s successful.  I’m talking about an offensive minded head coach, more weapons (MHJ at 1.2 or 1.3), and better pass protection.  We should have a lot of cap space this off-season and can target both OL & DL.  Go after actual impact players in free agency and then add depth in rounds 2 through 5 of the draft.

[bmags]

16 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

I wouldn't say that's all he wanted. With that stated, it's hard to evaluate the secondary with such a horrid front 7. When they had a good front 7, that secondary looked legit. I do think Poles/Flus missed on Tremaine Edmunds. He's a nice player, but not a difference maker and they overpaid for him. Yannick is a mercenary for hire, but he needs help. 

They still have more holes to fill than not on defense. 

There's no way you could take Carter. They don't have the team for him. Fields is a leader, and he's completely lost. They asked Flus and Williams who were leaders of the defense and they answered Tremaine Edmunds, a FA pickup. He hasn't been in that locker room long enough. I understand the talent, but Carter had motor questions and definite questions about his personality.

 

Pickens, maybe. But gain, the Bears have a good Oline who are looking bad due to their QB holding onto the ball far too long. OLine is not a problem, like at all, in my estimation. Bears rank 8th in terms of time given to the QB in the league. That means they are in the upper 25% of the league. The QB sucking makes the unit look worse, and they're not even at 100% yet. 

Agreed. You must take both.

I watched Carter last night run 10 yards after a throw was made to tackle the receiver and punched the ball out.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Draft Williams hire Lincoln Riley as head coach.  Boom

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

No pass rush and bad against the run isn't a good combination.

Exactly.

[Balta1701]

46 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If we can somehow land Williams, then give him everything in your power to ensure he’s successful.  I’m talking about an offensive minded head coach, more weapons (MHJ at 1.2 or 1.3), and better pass protection.  We should have a lot of cap space this off-season and can target both OL & DL.  Go after actual impact players in free agency and then add depth in rounds 2 through 5 of the draft.

Are there D-line players likely available in this FA class who are notably better than Ngakoue?

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I don't think you turn down a receiver prospect people are this high on for team needs.  Or at least you shouldn't.

It's not just team needs. A top of the draft pass rusher will have a greater impact than a receiver. It's probably the second most important position on the field after the QB.

[bmags]

10 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It's not just team needs. A top of the draft pass rusher will have a greater impact than a receiver. It's probably the second most important position on the field after the QB.

This draft has the best QB prospect since Lawrence, the best TE prospect ever, likely the best WR prospect ever, and then jared verse, a very good edge prospect.

A receiver vs An edge you may choose edge. If the discussion was Jared Verse is the best edge prospect since Bosa/Garrett, then you go Verse. But you should take what the draft gives you, because it's pretty good.'

I'd also guess the next wave of WR extensions drastically pull closer to edge contracts.

[nitetrain8601]

42 minutes ago, bmags said:

I watched Carter last night run 10 yards after a throw was made to tackle the receiver and punched the ball out.

And we also all watched him walk away from a dead friend. 

[Dick Allen]

How can Eberflus look at these games and say the Bears are really close to breaking through? Granted, they probably don't win in KC if they played well, but they were pretty awful all around.

[Balta1701]

58 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

How can Eberflus look at these games and say the Bears are really close to breaking through? Granted, they probably don't win in KC if they played well, but they were pretty awful all around.

I mean, at some level I understand that saying that is his job. But you're also correct, that at some point they have to back that up if they're going to say it, not even with a win but hell just holding a team under 20, and even if they couldn't do it at KC, they should have been able to do it against Tampa or GB.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

This draft has the best QB prospect since Lawrence, the best TE prospect ever, likely the best WR prospect ever, and then jared verse, a very good edge prospect.

A receiver vs An edge you may choose edge. If the discussion was Jared Verse is the best edge prospect since Bosa/Garrett, then you go Verse. But you should take what the draft gives you, because it's pretty good.'

I'd also guess the next wave of WR extensions drastically pull closer to edge contracts.

Agreed QB is #1. I was referring to the second first round pick.

[ptatc]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I mean, at some level I understand that saying that is his job. But you're also correct, that at some point they have to back that up if they're going to say it, not even with a win but hell just holding a team under 20, and even if they couldn't do it at KC, they should have been able to do it against Tampa or GB.

Yeah, he has to say that for the team. As much as everyone talks about transparency and being honest. This is not the time.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Yeah, he has to say that for the team. As much as everyone talks about transparency and being honest. This is not the time.

But it makes him look really clueless if they keep doing the same thing. 

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

But it makes him look really clueless if they keep doing the same thing. 

I feel like the things that make him look clueless are the performances on the field. 

[ptatc]

6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I feel like the things that make him look clueless are the performances on the field. 

Yeah, but also look what he has to work with. 

This is one of those situations where the GM knew they were going to tank last year so he can't hold that against the coach. And this year he knew they still weren't going to be good but expects improvements. Poles is going to get a bad rep with coaches when he fires the coach when he told the coach they weren't going to be good. 

[Balta1701]

22 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Yeah, but also look what he has to work with. 

This is one of those situations where the GM knew they were going to tank last year so he can't hold that against the coach. And this year he knew they still weren't going to be good but expects improvements. Poles is going to get a bad rep with coaches when he fires the coach when he told the coach they weren't going to be good. 

Well they still legitimately put resources into improving this defense and after 18% of the season they are worse on defense in terms of both yards given up and scoring defense than last year. They are 17th in the league, just below average, in terms of cap dollars committed to Defense. They were 4th in the NFL in free agent spending last offseason and that’s only because Moore was acquired in a trade. Are they getting their moneys worth?

Same rule as fields I understand that they weren’t going to jump to the playoffs this year and they need time to draft, but do we see progress? Last year at this time I was saying they’d have no shot at Williams because combining this years draft picks with all they money they had to spend there was no way they could be this bad again. Now it seems I’m going to eat those words because right now they are worse on both sides of the ball despite all that spending. Thats something worth blaming for.

[Harry Chappas]

10 hours ago, ptatc said:

Yeah, but also look what he has to work with. 

This is one of those situations where the GM knew they were going to tank last year so he can't hold that against the coach. And this year he knew they still weren't going to be good but expects improvements. Poles is going to get a bad rep with coaches when he fires the coach when he told the coach they weren't going to be good. 

The defensive scheme is terrible and he is the coach in charge of that.

His hand picked DC seems like a poor choice as well. 

If he was hired because dopey George and Ted liked him and forced him on Poles that could end his tenure sooner especially if Warren and Poles are on the same page.

When do we get to hear how angry Virginia is? 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Harry Chappas

[bmags]

just thought about how one of Eberflus' biggest backers was Rod Marinelli, he of 0-16 lions fame. His coaching tree will be obscene if he sprouts out the first 0-17 head coach.

[caulfield12]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/the-worst-franchise-in-the-nfl-154453681.html

[ptatc]

3 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

The defensive scheme is terrible and he is the coach in charge of that.

His hand picked DC seems like a poor choice as well. 

If he was hired because dopey George and Ted liked him and forced him on Poles that could end his tenure sooner especially if Warren and Poles are on the same page.

When do we get to hear how angry Virginia is? 

Is it the scheme or the players in the scheme? In this case I don't think you can solely blame the scheme. It worked pretty well in Indy.

 

Not that he doesn't have fault but it isn't just the coach in isolation. The GM can fire him but he sure didn't really give him much of a chance.

[Chisoxfn]

11 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Is it the scheme or the players in the scheme? In this case I don't think you can solely blame the scheme. It worked pretty well in Indy.

 

Not that he doesn't have fault but it isn't just the coach in isolation. The GM can fire him but he sure didn't really give him much of a chance.

I truly believe he is a good DC. Whether he is a good HC or not, probably not. One thing I do know - this is a scheme that requires a good dline (not dissimilar to other schemes).  The Bears aren't remotely close to having a good d-line. Think about the Bears good D's in the Cover 2 era, whether it was Tommie Harris disrupting the middle or Julius Peppers on the edge - you needed to have one well above average dlinemen and other parts to do the job. 

Maybe the Bears 2nd and 3rd round picks evolve to that point - but they aren't there yet and they were raw to begin with (which isn't a huge surprise). We are also talking about 2nd & 3rd rounders (with the 2nd rounder being a later"ish" pick).  Now Poles needs to hit on his picks, you will have misses, but he also has to have hits across his drafts.  

I actually think the Bears have players at other levels of the defense - but none of it works without a more disruptive line.  Not saying the best line in football - but this is the worse dline in football (or at the very least bottom 3).  That is a big problem and I do put some of that on Poles.  Or Poles knew that would be an issue, hoped it wouldn't be this bad, but just realized that was all he could do from a team building perspective given all the holes to fill.  

[Harry Chappas]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:12 PM, Chisoxfn said:

I truly believe he is a good DC. Whether he is a good HC or not, probably not. One thing I do know - this is a scheme that requires a good dline (not dissimilar to other schemes).  The Bears aren't remotely close to having a good d-line. Think about the Bears good D's in the Cover 2 era, whether it was Tommie Harris disrupting the middle or Julius Peppers on the edge - you needed to have one well above average dlinemen and other parts to do the job. 

Maybe the Bears 2nd and 3rd round picks evolve to that point - but they aren't there yet and they were raw to begin with (which isn't a huge surprise). We are also talking about 2nd & 3rd rounders (with the 2nd rounder being a later"ish" pick).  Now Poles needs to hit on his picks, you will have misses, but he also has to have hits across his drafts.  

I actually think the Bears have players at other levels of the defense - but none of it works without a more disruptive line.  Not saying the best line in football - but this is the worse dline in football (or at the very least bottom 3).  That is a big problem and I do put some of that on Poles.  Or Poles knew that would be an issue, hoped it wouldn't be this bad, but just realized that was all he could do from a team building perspective given all the holes to fill.  

If you need hall of famers to make the scheme work, it's not the defensive scheme that is making it work it is the hall of famers.

Urlacher made Lovie's scheme work.  Imagine him in a scheme that was more imaginative for him.

Why invest if LB and DB if they needed a DL to make it work.

They are historically bad and that is his specialty. 

 

[lostfan]

This is a pretty good discussion with a lot of good questions asked about Pace's regime and what they were thinking when they drafted Trubisky and then Fields.

If you don't feel like watching the video:
-In 2017 they were only looking at Trubisky and Mahomes. They were never looking at Watson because they didn't believe the way he made unscripted plays would translate to the NFL. Lucas also believed Mahomes was a legit talent but did not have him ranked ahead of Trubisky for basically the same reason - Mahomes is a wizard and he wasn't sure he would be able to pull those plays off in the NFL (obviously they were all wrong about this). Trubisky is very intelligent and understands all the concepts for every play, what the defense is doing, what his checks are, etc. but it did not translate well into live action (he mentions that around this time, the S2 tests were new and people didn't trust them, but they are very accurate at measuring this).

- They thought the Browns were going to take either Trubisky or Myles Garrett and if Trubisky had gone, they would have gotten Mahomes (trading up if necessary). Lucas also believes Mahomes is a transcendent talent and he may or may not have been a candidate for best QB ever on the Bears, but he's too talented for the Bears to ruin him.

-Fast forward to 2021 and they have the QBs ranked Lawrence, Fields, Jones, Wilson, Lance. Fields scored high on the S2 test (not the highest, but very high) indicating they felt it was likely that whatever deficiencies he had with processing plays was something he could overcome, along with his physical tools. Lucas is stunned that Fields looks this bad, and also believes his confidence is shot and that all the swag he had from his rookie year is gone.

 

[Tony]

2 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

If you need hall of famers to make the scheme work, it's not the defensive scheme that is making it work it is the hall of famers.

Urlacher made Lovie's scheme work.  Imagine him in a scheme that was more imaginative for him.

Why invest if LB and DB if they needed a DL to make it work.

They are historically bad and that is his specialty. 

 

Urlacher made it special. Cover 2 can't work in the front 4 don't do their jobs. Tommie Harris, Tank, Alex Brown, Adewale Ogunleye, etc are the guys that are the key. Need layers obviously, but I agree with Jason here. I don't care if you have HOF's or not in your secondary, if a QB has 4-5 seconds to throw, corners don't have a chance. It all starts at the line