2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

So just continue on with Bears tradition? We’ve learned NOTHING?

Hard pass. Your statement of “you can win Fields or Bagent” might be true against the Raiders or Panthers, but if the goal is to build a team able to win the Super Bowl every season, we’d all need to see a ton more from Bagent to give us any sense if he was really the guy. 

It is back to - draft someone early and make them earn it and compete. But draft a high end qb prospect unless one of Fields and Bagent show you something special. 

[Tony]

25 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

It is back to - draft someone early and make them earn it and compete. But draft a high end qb prospect unless one of Fields and Bagent show you something special. 

If Bagent puts up like 7 or 8 wins or something, I can somewhat buy in and build a team around everything else, basically the 49ers plan around Purdy…but everything else has to be near perfect in order for it to work. 

Finding the “guy” at QB should still be the No. 1 priority. 

[bmags]

9 hours ago, Tony said:

If Bagent puts up like 7 or 8 wins or something, I can somewhat buy in and build a team around everything else, basically the 49ers plan around Purdy…but everything else has to be near perfect in order for it to work. 

Finding the “guy” at QB should still be the No. 1 priority. 

I think this year even the “well stuck with bagent/fields” miracle has a class that may justify trading to #32 and getting one of the rest of the QBs. Very deep group and nfl hasn’t shown perfection in judging high end QB talent.

(trading to #32 gives 5th year option, but you don’t have to)

[Harry Chappas]

Bagent did the little things that Fields does not. The things that we see every other game that Bears QB's don't normally show, field awareness.   There were a lot of easy thows that he took that Fields doesn't seem to find.  These are the types of short nothing type things that move the chains that others seem to find easily. 

The offense ran smoothly in regad to getting plays run, guys in place, changing things up, etc.  They seemd to always be on the same page.  With Fields....hell anyone the last few years, that is not the case.  I'm talking about the things like coming out of a time out and getting a delay of game. 

 

 

[LittleHurtCG]

20 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

Bagent did the little things that Fields does not. The things that we see every other game that Bears QB's don't normally show, field awareness.   There were a lot of easy thows that he took that Fields doesn't seem to find.  These are the types of short nothing type things that move the chains that others seem to find easily. 

The offense ran smoothly in regad to getting plays run, guys in place, changing things up, etc.  They seemd to always be on the same page.  With Fields....hell anyone the last few years, that is not the case.  I'm talking about the things like coming out of a time out and getting a delay of game. 

 

 

Yep. Fields is in very real danger of getting Wally Pipped. If the Secret Bagent Man leads the Bears to victory out in LA against the Chargers, then I'm not sure how you can justify starting Fields again this year. 

[T R U]

Stupid Bears cost me survivor, that's what I get for putting my faith in Brian Hoyer and the Raiders so I shouldn't blame the Bears.

Bagent didn't lose them the game, but this guy is not an NFL QB. 5.6 yards per attempt is woefully bad, and if the Raiders had made this any sort of a game he would have been forced into doing something other than dink and dunk and you would have seen the sacks and turnovers compile.

Luckily, the Bears pretty much had control the entire game and he wasn't needed to do those things. They should still be drafting a QB early next year.

[Kyyle23]

It’s funny how a win against a bad team where the qb has meh numbers makes this town say “IT IS DONE”

nothing fools Chicago more than meaningless games 

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

It’s funny how a win against a bad team where the qb has meh numbers makes this town say “IT IS DONE”

nothing fools Chicago more than meaningless games 

I haven't listened to talk radio but it feels like there a hell of a lot more fields defenders anticipating bagent-mania and assuming anti-bagent postures than I've seen actual "bagent is the future" postures.

I do think it's one of those things though where Bagent is really good at the achilles heel of Fields, and it is kinda frustrating to watch a UDFA jump in and run a much more efficient offense.

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

I haven't listened to talk radio but it feels like there a hell of a lot more fields defenders anticipating bagent-mania and assuming anti-bagent postures than I've seen actual "bagent is the future" postures.

I do think it's one of those things though where Bagent is really good at the achilles heel of Fields, and it is kinda frustrating to watch a UDFA jump in and run a much more efficient offense.

A guy called in two months ago and said Bagent has strong bloodlines because his dad is a professional arm wrestler.  A guy called this morning and said Bagent was throwing guys open yesterday lol.

I’m done defending fields, but this town does not learn from the same s%*# happening over and over again

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

A guy called in two months ago and said Bagent has strong bloodlines because his dad is a professional arm wrestler.  A guy called this morning and said Bagent was throwing guys open yesterday lol.

I’m done defending fields, but this town does not learn from the same s%*# happening over and over again

I do think he was throwing guys before they completed their break more. Whether or not that means bagent is more than any number of competent QBs who you don't want starting for you (mike white, for example).

But it is tugging at the doubt of whether Fields can be more than boom or bust qb. When Fields faces d that surprises him and punches him in the mouth, his feel for the game is rough and he enters that mode where he has to see someone unambiguously wide open before he throws and either ends up sacked or running. We obviously see other QBs do it in other offenses, but seeing the same guys getting hit a lot earlier kinda drives it home.

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

I do think he was throwing guys before they completed their break more. Whether or not that means bagent is more than any number of competent QBs who you don't want starting for you (mike white, for example).

But it is tugging at the doubt of whether Fields can be more than boom or bust qb. When Fields faces d that surprises him and punches him in the mouth, his feel for the game is rough and he enters that mode where he has to see someone unambiguously wide open before he throws and either ends up sacked or running. We obviously see other QBs do it in other offenses, but seeing the same guys getting hit a lot earlier kinda drives it home.

I have moved on from Fields, im really not concerned if he is boom or bust anymore, 3 years in and it’s the same issues we always see.  Guetsy in my mind is culpable for some of his absolutely atrocious game plans and play calling but I just can’t wait anymore to see it click.  
 

Bagent is competent right now.  Opposing defensive coordinators are about to start tearing apart his strengths so it should be interesting to see how he can adjust to that 

[LittleHurtCG]

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I have moved on from Fields, im really not concerned if he is boom or bust anymore, 3 years in and it’s the same issues we always see.  Guetsy in my mind is culpable for some of his absolutely atrocious game plans and play calling but I just can’t wait anymore to see it click.  
 

Bagent is competent right now.  Opposing defensive coordinators are about to start tearing apart his strengths so it should be interesting to see how he can adjust to that 

Sunday night is gonna be a big big test for Bagent and the Bears offense. The Chargers with Mack and Bosa are going to get much better pressure than the Raiders. The Chargers have been real good against the run this year as well. 

Wouldn't suprise me to see the Chargers blitz a ton and play man to man with jamming on the Bears receivers.

[Tony]

1 hour ago, T R U said:

Stupid Bears cost me survivor, that's what I get for putting my faith in Brian Hoyer and the Raiders so I shouldn't blame the Bears.

Bagent didn't lose them the game, but this guy is not an NFL QB. 5.6 yards per attempt is woefully bad, and if the Raiders had made this any sort of a game he would have been forced into doing something other than dink and dunk and you would have seen the sacks and turnovers compile.

Luckily, the Bears pretty much had control the entire game and he wasn't needed to do those things. They should still be drafting a QB early next year.

It's just not a recipe for long-term success. It's a very inefficient offense that will lead to more issues than wins, IMO. So many things can go wrong on each play, and the longer the offense is on the field, the more plays that are executed, the higher the risk for a big sack, injury, or turnover. Good offenses need those big chunk plays, not the dink and dunk that we saw on Sunday. Now, I totally understand this was his first start, and he did well. I have no reason to not want Bagent to succeed and maybe he can. But as others have mentioned, we've seen this so many times in Chicago, history is not on his side. 

[Quin]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

A guy called in two months ago and said Bagent has strong bloodlines because his dad is a professional arm wrestler.  A guy called this morning and said Bagent was throwing guys open yesterday lol.

I’m done defending fields, but this town does not learn from the same s%*# happening over and over again

Stares in Yermin Mercedes

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I haven't listened to talk radio but it feels like there a hell of a lot more fields defenders anticipating bagent-mania and assuming anti-bagent postures than I've seen actual "bagent is the future" postures.

I do think it's one of those things though where Bagent is really good at the achilles heel of Fields, and it is kinda frustrating to watch a UDFA jump in and run a much more efficient offense.

I go back to, I think at the very least they have found a very solid, cost controlled back up in Bagent and that is good.  I don't know that he has the arm to be more than that, but lets see what can happen while Fields gets healthy.  I still expect to go back to Fields, cause his physical tools are elite.  But I'm a glass half full guy and I think Fields seeing this first hand can only help him develop and push and grow more as well.  

And in the meantime I will continue to hope and root that Bagent is more than just a backup and that he can be one of those guys that transcends things. Its happened. Brady and Brees, neither one of them were full of all of the physical tools - but their physical tools were good enough and they made up for it with pin-point accuracy (which is a physical tool) and an elite skill to read/react and get the ball out and make plays.  

I will also point out - the defense has been very fun to watch now for a few games in a row.  This was largely against bad offenses though, so I'm somewhat curious to see what happens against Chargers.  I expect a beatdown, but am hoping somehow they pleasantly surprise us. 

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I do think he was throwing guys before they completed their break more. Whether or not that means bagent is more than any number of competent QBs who you don't want starting for you (mike white, for example).

But it is tugging at the doubt of whether Fields can be more than boom or bust qb. When Fields faces d that surprises him and punches him in the mouth, his feel for the game is rough and he enters that mode where he has to see someone unambiguously wide open before he throws and either ends up sacked or running. We obviously see other QBs do it in other offenses, but seeing the same guys getting hit a lot earlier kinda drives it home.

The thing is - if Fields can ever have that switch go off - he can be really really good.  I'm predicting we see him back in 2-3 more weeks, potentially missing 4 weeks and he'll be coming back after the Panthers / Bears Thursday night game. That would give him 10 days to get reacclimated and hopefully enough time to start feeling better.  I am hoping that Fields is really watching and learning some things in the meantime. But I'm not going to vicerate him for the Vikings games and forget the 2 previous games where he played at a high level.  Yes, against bad defenses, but there was real growth in those games. 

Quite frankly - I'm kind of impressed how the team has largely held it together despite so much.  Not saying Flus is someone special, but it shows me at least a little something. Also shows me something about the players they brought in.  But geeze, defense is really flying to the ball, again, despite having a weak pass rush. I do think this defense could take a HUGE step forward in a year if we see the pass rush take off.  Like a lot of the new additions on defense and Brisker had a weak start, but he is FLYING all over the place now that he has gotten healthier.  Edmunds and Edwards too.  

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

I have moved on from Fields, im really not concerned if he is boom or bust anymore, 3 years in and it’s the same issues we always see.  Guetsy in my mind is culpable for some of his absolutely atrocious game plans and play calling but I just can’t wait anymore to see it click.  
 

Bagent is competent right now.  Opposing defensive coordinators are about to start tearing apart his strengths so it should be interesting to see how he can adjust to that 

The double moves should be open for some big plays.  He's going to have to show his arm is good enough to hit on those.  If he doesn't, things are going to get a lot tougher for him.  

[MexSoxFan#1]

On 10/22/2023 at 1:56 PM, CentralChamps21 said:

Bears should not be wasting either of their high 1st round picks on a QB.

The last two Bears QBs to start NFC Championship games were Jay Cutler and Rex Grossman.

Every acquisition this offseason should be OL, DL and DB, with maybe a mid-round WR thrown in there.

Was a huge mistake to not go harder after Mike McGlinchey in free agency.

Was a huge mistake to not try to trade for Zach Martin when he was holding out with Dallas.

Was a huge mistake to only draft one OL this year.

Get a better OL and a better defense and you can win with Fields or Bagent.

Those top two picks need to be an OT and edge rusher.

Nope, if the Bears have a chance to draft an elite QB, you gotta take that chance. Sick and tired of the Bears never having a top QB. You can fill other roster spots through FA, top QBs are hardly ever available there.

[CentralChamps21]

13 hours ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

Nope, if the Bears have a chance to draft an elite QB, you gotta take that chance. Sick and tired of the Bears never having a top QB. You can fill other roster spots through FA, top QBs are hardly ever available there.

I'm not convinced that there's an elite QB in this draft, so get an elite OL and a much better defense and then spend a year evaluating the QBs we have with a real team around them.

[Milkman delivers]

1 hour ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I'm not convinced that there's an elite QB in this draft, so get an elite OL and a much better defense and then spend a year evaluating the QBs we have with a real team around them.

You may be right. Williams’ star is falling pretty hard right now. There are even articles suggesting he should sit out the rest of the year.

[Kyyle23]

It’s funny how a bad couple games can invalidate everything else lol

[bmags]

45 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

It’s funny how a bad couple games can invalidate everything else lol

I think it's silly. Peyton Manning's last game for Tennessee he subbed out for Tee higgins down 42-9, having thrown for just 130 yards and 1 td and 1 int. Win and they had the potential to share a title.

This is actually the good thing about williams and what was so impressive to start the year - he's mostly a 3 year starter. It's actually pretty common for top prospects to have worse stats their last year as teams scout them harder. It's where a player like Trubisky, had he gone back, likely would have exposed some more. 

Mahomes also had a really crappy game against Iowa State, the best defense he played that year. He had a 4 int game against oklahoma the year before.

Getting the top guy to face 3 top 40 defenses in three straight weeks is rare for these guys, but it's also good. Let's see how he responds.

[bmags]

not gonna lie i want this big boy though

 

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think it's silly. Peyton Manning's last game for Tennessee he subbed out for Tee higgins down 42-9, having thrown for just 130 yards and 1 td and 1 int. Win and they had the potential to share a title.

This is actually the good thing about williams and what was so impressive to start the year - he's mostly a 3 year starter. It's actually pretty common for top prospects to have worse stats their last year as teams scout them harder. It's where a player like Trubisky, had he gone back, likely would have exposed some more. 

Mahomes also had a really crappy game against Iowa State, the best defense he played that year. He had a 4 int game against oklahoma the year before.

Getting the top guy to face 3 top 40 defenses in three straight weeks is rare for these guys, but it's also good. Let's see how he responds.

Williams right now has 23 TD and 4 int, and 3 of those Int came against notre dame.  He is still having a really good season and last season was awesome, he is still in the running for Heisman

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Williams right now has 23 TD and 4 int, and 3 of those Int came against notre dame.  He is still having a really good season and last season was awesome, he is still in the running for Heisman

I will say if the bears hired lincoln riley i'd still probably be like "hell yes", so many of his offensive concepts have been adopted by the nfl. But...I really don't think he'll ever win the big one. 

If I was him, I'd hope that Bielema gets fired and go hard after Ryan Walters.