2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[Milkman delivers]

7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Williams right now has 23 TD and 4 int, and 3 of those Int came against notre dame.  He is still having a really good season and last season was awesome, he is still in the running for Heisman

The thing with the Bears is that they will likely screw up whoever they draft at QB. So you need the guy to be absolutely perfect to have any faith that he can overcome the Bears’ coaching/development. It’s not exactly logical, but it’s the mindset of a fan of this team (or a Chicago team in general).

If you expect a kick in the balls, and you get a slap in the face, it’s a win.

[Kyyle23]

11 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

The thing with the Bears is that they will likely screw up whoever they draft at QB. So you need the guy to be absolutely perfect to have any faith that he can overcome the Bears’ coaching/development. It’s not exactly logical, but it’s the mindset of a fan of this team (or a Chicago team in general).

If you expect a kick in the balls, and you get a slap in the face, it’s a win.

I just don’t subscribe to this thinking 

[bmags]

9 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

The thing with the Bears is that they will likely screw up whoever they draft at QB. So you need the guy to be absolutely perfect to have any faith that he can overcome the Bears’ coaching/development. It’s not exactly logical, but it’s the mindset of a fan of this team (or a Chicago team in general).

If you expect a kick in the balls, and you get a slap in the face, it’s a win.

I am very anti-this. I just don't think it's nearly as influential to success as people think. 

There was a clip yesterday of Rusillo talking about how Mahomes didn't understand protections until year two, and how they spoke about how he would have been "ruined" on another team. But you have teammates saying he was lighting up practices right away. Protections are hard - and that is a HARD offense. He very likely would not be a two-time super bowl MVP. But he clearly had an ability to react quickly and process the nfl field, even if he would have needed protection help. I have zero doubt he's still on second contract with the bears and we all are in love had the miracle happened and browns takin trubs and we took mahomes.

Frankly, the Zac Taylor seems like a crappy coach. They were a s%*# team for 2 years and then got burrow. THey were a horrendous offensive line. He's injured this year, but clearly the guy just had that innate ability to perform.

Meanwhile - the texans were an awful org, going coach to coach. The players union seemed to hate them. Then they still pull Demeco Ryans, draft a top QB by trading up which we all laughed at. And CJ Stroud looks amazing and incredibly ahead of schedule.

On the other side, the "nurture over nature" folks have had to deal with Jordan Love being nurtured for 3 years, in a professional org, behind a great o line and coach. And he sucks. Trey Lance goes to the best situation in nfl history and was awful, shipped out without ever winning a starting job.

OTOH, we probably do have the best example of a situation nearly ending a QB who had NFL promise in Brian Flores and Tua, whom he just seemed to personally despise. But he also was still coming off injuries, and may have just needed that 3rd year and cast of Waddle in year 2 and Hill, regardless.

I'm not saying there's no influence of the org, but if Williams really has the stuff that makes NFL QB stars, the bears won't ruin him. If he only has the juice to be a top 20 QB, the bears probably will not have what it takes to develop him.

But ideally we aren't selecting a guy 1-1 who is only Ryan Tannehill level good.

[Milkman delivers]

26 minutes ago, bmags said:

I am very anti-this. I just don't think it's nearly as influential to success as people think. 

There was a clip yesterday of Rusillo talking about how Mahomes didn't understand protections until year two, and how they spoke about how he would have been "ruined" on another team. But you have teammates saying he was lighting up practices right away. Protections are hard - and that is a HARD offense. He very likely would not be a two-time super bowl MVP. But he clearly had an ability to react quickly and process the nfl field, even if he would have needed protection help. I have zero doubt he's still on second contract with the bears and we all are in love had the miracle happened and browns takin trubs and we took mahomes.

Frankly, the Zac Taylor seems like a crappy coach. They were a s%*# team for 2 years and then got burrow. THey were a horrendous offensive line. He's injured this year, but clearly the guy just had that innate ability to perform.

Meanwhile - the texans were an awful org, going coach to coach. The players union seemed to hate them. Then they still pull Demeco Ryans, draft a top QB by trading up which we all laughed at. And CJ Stroud looks amazing and incredibly ahead of schedule.

On the other side, the "nurture over nature" folks have had to deal with Jordan Love being nurtured for 3 years, in a professional org, behind a great o line and coach. And he sucks. Trey Lance goes to the best situation in nfl history and was awful, shipped out without ever winning a starting job.

OTOH, we probably do have the best example of a situation nearly ending a QB who had NFL promise in Brian Flores and Tua, whom he just seemed to personally despise. But he also was still coming off injuries, and may have just needed that 3rd year and cast of Waddle in year 2 and Hill, regardless.

I'm not saying there's no influence of the org, but if Williams really has the stuff that makes NFL QB stars, the bears won't ruin him. If he only has the juice to be a top 20 QB, the bears probably will not have what it takes to develop him.

But ideally we aren't selecting a guy 1-1 who is only Ryan Tannehill level good.

Well, I’m going to believe it until the Bears draft a QB that is at the top of the league. There’s 88 years of precedent. I doubt the Bears simply drafted the wrong guy every time.

[bmags]

27 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

Well, I’m going to believe it until the Bears draft a QB that is at the top of the league. There’s 88 years of precedent. I doubt the Bears simply drafted the wrong guy every time.

I get it, but when you only draft one every 5 years it is possible. Hell....they drafted 1 in the 90s in the first round. They drafted one in 2002 and then waited until 2017 before their next one. 

They were a coinflip from selecting Terry Bradshaw in 1970.

But seriously, this is all of their First round QBs in the modern era, 55 years or so.

1970s - 0 first round QBs.
1982 - Jim McMahon (5th overall)
1987 - Jim Harbaugh (26th overall)
1999 - Cade McNown (14th overall, traded back to take 5th QB of year)
2002 - Rex Grossman (22nd overall, 4th QB taken)
2017 - Mitch Trubisky (2nd overall, 1st QB taken)
2021 - Justin Fields (11th overall, 4th QB taken)

Really Mitch was the first time since 1982 they had really prioritized taking a QB when picking high. Even 1999 they traded back, allowing Culpepper to be taken ahead of them. Grossman they traded back for.

It really feels like bears fans feel guilty for taking mitch/fields so close together and failing, but they straight up did not take enough swings at QB.

I know you may point to 1997 mirer trade, but I refuse, the stupidest trade of all time and very old nfl thinking. Cutler we are obviously sending out 2 first rounders, and I still think that was a great idea that made the last 4 years of that defense someone closer to a title.

[Milkman delivers]

34 minutes ago, bmags said:

I get it, but when you only draft one every 5 years it is possible. Hell....they drafted 1 in the 90s in the first round. They drafted one in 2002 and then waited until 2017 before their next one. 

They were a coinflip from selecting Terry Bradshaw in 1970.

But seriously, this is all of their First round QBs in the modern era, 55 years or so.

1970s - 0 first round QBs.
1982 - Jim McMahon (5th overall)
1987 - Jim Harbaugh (26th overall)
1999 - Cade McNown (14th overall, traded back to take 5th QB of year)
2002 - Rex Grossman (22nd overall, 4th QB taken)
2017 - Mitch Trubisky (2nd overall, 1st QB taken)
2021 - Justin Fields (11th overall, 4th QB taken)

Really Mitch was the first time since 1982 they had really prioritized taking a QB when picking high. Even 1999 they traded back, allowing Culpepper to be taken ahead of them. Grossman they traded back for.

It really feels like bears fans feel guilty for taking mitch/fields so close together and failing, but they straight up did not take enough swings at QB.

I know you may point to 1997 mirer trade, but I refuse, the stupidest trade of all time and very old nfl thinking. Cutler we are obviously sending out 2 first rounders, and I still think that was a great idea that made the last 4 years of that defense someone closer to a title.

I guess it’s more bad strategy than bad development (ideally, at least). Thanks for the breakdown.

Didn't realize we could’ve had Culpepper.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Milkman delivers said:

I guess it’s more bad strategy than bad development (ideally, at least). Thanks for the breakdown.

Didn't realize we could’ve had Culpepper.

One thing going through old qb drafts does is ...i don't know it feels like every "good qb draft" is  a "bad qb draft" and somehow bad qb drafts end up as good qb drafts.

2020 wasn't considered "bad" but it spits out Burrow, Tua, Herbert and Hurts as the first four qbs.

Meanwhile 2021 when it's all said and done may only have Lawrence get to the 2nd contract with the same team, and people loved that draft going in.

[Stinky Stanky]

I didn't realize that Bagent's version of English included trouble with the "TH" sounds and never using "AN" in front of nouns (a apple, a idea, etc.).  Makes him sound like a real rustic.  Just adds to the growing legend!  Our own Lil Abner!

[caulfield12]

12 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Williams right now has 23 TD and 4 int, and 3 of those Int came against notre dame.  He is still having a really good season and last season was awesome, he is still in the running for Heisman

Too many guys like Gabriel out there lurking.

Maye might have been eliminated, but no way USC doesn't lose at least one more game, if not two.

Last year, he had the advantage of getting all the focus being a Top 10 team the entire season and national championship contender until the 2nd Utah losss.

[Kyyle23]

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Too many guys like Gabriel out there lurking.

Maye might have been eliminated, but no way USC doesn't lose at least one more game, if not two.

Last year, he had the advantage of getting all the focus being a Top 10 team the entire season and national championship contender until the 2nd Utah losss.

Nah

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Nah

If they beat Alabama with him leading it, I could see Jayden Daniels take control of it. 

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

If they beat Alabama with him leading it, I could see Jayden Daniels take control of it. 

I said he is still in the hunt, I’m not saying he is winning it.  Caulfield seems to believe that these lurkers have the current heisman winner knocked out of the running

[caulfield12]

8 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

I said he is still in the hunt, I’m not saying he is winning it.  Caulfield seems to believe that these lurkers have the current heisman winner knocked out of the running

Daniels is ahead.  Penix for sure.  Oregon and Nix will have far better team results at the end.  Gabriel lurking with a cupcake schedule.  Travis with FSU.  Marvin Harrison might even be ahead of Williams.

Don't doubt he still gets an invite ... but USC is going to have 3-4 losses and that won't be easily overcome.

Plus Lincoln Riley isn't exactly beloved in a lot of circles...media included.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The whole Bagent thing has really got me watching a lot of podcasts now on youtube. This is the best one yet. I had heard him speak a few times before but this one impressed me the most. He's smart and self motivated, never gets ahead of himself , works on the task at hand. Very impressive. Everything you would want in a young athlete or a person for that matter.

 

[caulfield12]

11 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The whole Bagent thing has really got me watching a lot of podcasts now on youtube. This is the best one yet. I had heard him speak a few times before but this one impressed me the most. He's smart and self motivated, never gets ahead of himself , works on the task at hand. Very impressive. Everything you would want in a young athlete or a person for that matter.

 

Sounds like Joe Borchard...

 

Can cross Gabriel off Heisman list.

Oregon the best team as of right now...heck, the bottom half of the PAC 10 would all win the Big Ten West.

For instance, AZ the way they're playing now would destroy every team but Michigan and OSU.

Edited October 29, 2023 by caulfield12

[The Beast]

Houston loses to Carolina on a field goal after going ahead with 0:35 left to play. Dang.

Edited October 29, 2023 by The Beast

[Flash Tizzle]

Well, that was unfortunate. You felt watching the first half it was going to be a 50+ point game for LA. And any QB controversy stops right now. We should be seeing Fields next Sun

[Chisoxfn]

5 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said:

Well, that was unfortunate. You felt watching the first half it was going to be a 50+ point game for LA. And any QB controversy stops right now. We should be seeing Fields next Sun

Yeah - he left some throws out there and you can tell arm strength isn’t there. His deep ball was everywhere. Penalties were bad too. Chargers crushed them. 
 

Hopefully Fields is healthy and ready to rock starting next week. 

[chw42]

7 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said:

Well, that was unfortunate. You felt watching the first half it was going to be a 50+ point game for LA. And any QB controversy stops right now. We should be seeing Fields next Sun

His lack of zip on the ball is so evident on outside throws. Rookies make mistakes and he made a few tonight. But his lack of velocity on outside throws really gives him a slim margin of error. I'm glad they tried to showcase his ability to throw deep a few times, but that really isn't his biggest weakness.

Edited October 30, 2023 by chw42

[Kyyle23]

How ironic is it that the son of a world champion arm wrestler has arm strength issues lol

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

How ironic is it that the son of a world champion arm wrestler has arm strength issues lol

someone broke down how has has a real baseball infielder throw that gets the ball out incredibly quick and accurate with zip on shorter throws, but then he doesn't really switch that up well to the kind of over-the-top arm angle you'd use in the outfield to get a long throw with velocity. Made sense to me, and was also pointed out how many top QBs recently had baseball backgrounds. That was never "new", but probably more pronounced in how guys now play off script and can change arm angles like Mahomes and to a lesser extent kyler murray can.

While we didn't hit an inside straight on bagent, I tell ya one thing I'm extremely reayd for is not seeing an offensive line with cody whitehair and lucas patrick.

[Kyyle23]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

someone broke down how has has a real baseball infielder throw that gets the ball out incredibly quick and accurate with zip on shorter throws, but then he doesn't really switch that up well to the kind of over-the-top arm angle you'd use in the outfield to get a long throw with velocity. Made sense to me, and was also pointed out how many top QBs recently had baseball backgrounds. That was never "new", but probably more pronounced in how guys now play off script and can change arm angles like Mahomes and to a lesser extent kyler murray can.

While we didn't hit an inside straight on bagent, I tell ya one thing I'm extremely reayd for is not seeing an offensive line with cody whitehair and lucas patrick.

Patrick and Whitehair are just turnstiles and penalties 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Patrick and Whitehair are just turnstiles and penalties 

The penalties piss me off more than being bad, but I know that it's probably them realizing they are terrible now that they keep needing to commit penalties.

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

The penalties piss me off more than being bad, but I know that it's probably them realizing they are terrible now that they keep needing to commit penalties.

I’m just so sick of seeing a hiked ball almost go over the QB head and then the same guy who hiked the ball watching a defensive player blow past him and be in the QB lap by the time he grabs the ball

[Tony]

This is amazing