2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[caulfield12]

BovNix might end up shocking someone as well...just don't see Penix Jr creating enough outside the pocket or throwing well on the run to believe in him.  Plus limited escapability.

Wouldn't be shocked to see JJ McCarthy have a better pro career.

[Flash Tizzle]

Again Jordan Love looks great. Do we believe in him yet? 

[SoxAce]

9 hours ago, Flash Tizzle said:

Again Jordan Love looks great. Do we believe in him yet? 

This was before last night's game.

[Flash Tizzle]

It’s amazing to watch the improvement in Love through his first season. Many had written him off through the first five, six games. Yet here we are, in Fields third season, still trying to decide if he’s our QB. It’s a joke. 

[LittleHurtCG]

18 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said:

It’s amazing to watch the improvement in Love through his first season. Many had written him off through the first five, six games. Yet here we are, in Fields third season, still trying to decide if he’s our QB. It’s a joke. 

It's a depressing joke for Bears fans once again. Bears get #1 pick. Decide to get cute and trade it away instead of taking CJ Stroud. The 2023 season is now close t0 75% done and it seems like the jury is still out on Fields. Enough is enough in my book. He isn't the guy and the Bears have to get a franchise quarterback this offseason somehow. 

[ptatc]

54 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said:

It’s amazing to watch the improvement in Love through his first season. Many had written him off through the first five, six games. Yet here we are, in Fields third season, still trying to decide if he’s our QB. It’s a joke. 

This is his 4th year in the league. Maybe there is something to be said about sitting and learning 

[bmags]

My takeaway from watching Jordan Love is his offensive line is very good, and when it's only good he looks pretty terrible. Packers oline absolutely handled the Chiefs dline. Chris Jones was barely felt until the 4th and the packers had a few field goals.

He is a pretty good West Coast QB. Probably Goff-level.

[Flash Tizzle]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

It's a depressing joke for Bears fans once again. Bears get #1 pick. Decide to get cute and trade it away instead of taking CJ Stroud. The 2023 season is now close t0 75% done and it seems like the jury is still out on Fields. Enough is enough in my book. He isn't the guy and the Bears have to get a franchise quarterback this offseason somehow. 

I’m just tired of the excuses. We know what we have with Fields and all of his limitations. He should be gone. This Carolina pick is likely going to be #1 or #2, so there’s no reason every first round QB regardless of pre-draft hype shouldn’t be looked at. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

My takeaway from watching Jordan Love is his offensive line is very good, and when it's only good he looks pretty terrible. Packers oline absolutely handled the Chiefs dline. Chris Jones was barely felt until the 4th and the packers had a few field goals.

He is a pretty good West Coast QB. Probably Goff-level.

And yet their top two running backs are averaging 3.5 and 3.7 YPC. That’s gotta be the lowest in the league for a team’s top two backs. So do they just suck at run blocking and are elite at pass blocking? The packers run game is pretty non-existent outside of Love scrambles.

[Chisoxfn]

13 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said:

I’m just tired of the excuses. We know what we have with Fields and all of his limitations. He should be gone. This Carolina pick is likely going to be #1 or #2, so there’s no reason every first round QB regardless of pre-draft hype shouldn’t be looked at. 

I'm in the camp of - best chance to for sure make playoffs next 2 years is to keep Fields, take the 5th year option on him and than basically you have franchise tag option for year 3. So basically you have 3 years at him before he totally kills your cap.  In the meantime you will have 2 more years where he costs materially less than a non rookie deal QB and have plenty of other assets to stockpile everything.

I am also in the camp that FIelds is at this point going to be on average a #10 QB. This means he may have a year where he slides into the back half of the top 10, he'll also likely have years where he is the 13th-15th best QB at times.  I don't see him ascending into difference maker spot and I don't see the team winning a superbowl with a QB outside of the top 10 nor do I see a long term sustained run of success (i.e., I see the team making the playoffs for 2 years but probably not being dangerous enough...although they could have a year they make a run if they wanted to push their chips in).

The inverse is - If the Bears draft a QB with Panthers pick and move Fields...I don't see them making the playoffs next year and reality is even the following year may be difficult, although I wouldn't say impossible.  I would expect the 2nd year the trend would be upward because I see the floor of Williams as being a 10-15 QB as well. He just has way too many plus attributes not to be that sort of guy in my mind.  I watched a lot of Washington games and Penix is a very good pocket passer - his release is long and slow and the zip on his arm is nowhere near what Williams can do. Williams also has that added dimension. He also goes too much ad-lib, but I don't see him like Fields because he's always keeping his eyes down field. Its why I like him and McCarthy as my top 2 QB's (I haven't watched enough of Daniels to figure out). 

But after that 2nd year - the team still will have basically 4 years of control on the QB (if they want to) - that includes a 5th year option and use of franchise tag in the following year (we hope it doesn't get to that point).  In that window this should still be an ascending football club given the rest of the assets they have and if you hit on the QB (and the QB is going to be coming into a situation where the cupboard is much better equipped...oline sans center is solid, you have a #1 wideout (and this is a draft where you can get a 2nd high end wideout with the Bears pick) and the defense is trending up.  The Bears also have a TON of cap space so they could really stockpile the offense. For example - they could sign Tee Higgins and go with Moore / Higgins and than use a draft pick on someone like Bowers to go with Kmet.  Basically 4 above average weapons, solid oline (draft a center & sign one - they have the cap space for it) and your young QB should be in a tremendous position.  

I'm in the camp that I'm going option 2 - unless Fields really balls out where it looks like his ceiling is a 5-7 QB, in which case than I think you are talking about someone like Dak, and at that point, I think I trade out of #1 and get way more assets and basically just say this guy is good enough to consistently win with and if I put the right team around him I can go far.  Fields has shown a ton of improvement this year - I won't deny that, but he hasn't shown that he elevates the rest of the team and that to me is what I consider a different maker and the type of player that I would give a multi-year extension at QB.  

[bmags]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

And yet their top two running backs are averaging 3.5 and 3.7 YPC. That’s gotta be the lowest in the league for a team’s top two backs. So do they just suck at run blocking and are elite at pass blocking? The packers run game is pretty non-existent outside of Love scrambles.

I don't think they have been consistent, I'm not sure injuries each week. But obviously Maxx Crosby terrorized the packers. Lions don't have a great pass rush, but Chiefs do, and Packers line held both in check. 

Seemed like it may have been a) start with bakhtiari, really strong, b) bakhtiari lost for year, temporary reshuffling, c) oline improves, Love improves, dominate chiefs dline.

 

[LittleHurtCG]

1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

I'm in the camp of - best chance to for sure make playoffs next 2 years is to keep Fields, take the 5th year option on him and than basically you have franchise tag option for year 3. So basically you have 3 years at him before he totally kills your cap.  In the meantime you will have 2 more years where he costs materially less than a non rookie deal QB and have plenty of other assets to stockpile everything.

I am also in the camp that FIelds is at this point going to be on average a #10 QB. This means he may have a year where he slides into the back half of the top 10, he'll also likely have years where he is the 13th-15th best QB at times.  I don't see him ascending into difference maker spot and I don't see the team winning a superbowl with a QB outside of the top 10 nor do I see a long term sustained run of success (i.e., I see the team making the playoffs for 2 years but probably not being dangerous enough...although they could have a year they make a run if they wanted to push their chips in).

The inverse is - If the Bears draft a QB with Panthers pick and move Fields...I don't see them making the playoffs next year and reality is even the following year may be difficult, although I wouldn't say impossible.  I would expect the 2nd year the trend would be upward because I see the floor of Williams as being a 10-15 QB as well. He just has way too many plus attributes not to be that sort of guy in my mind.  I watched a lot of Washington games and Penix is a very good pocket passer - his release is long and slow and the zip on his arm is nowhere near what Williams can do. Williams also has that added dimension. He also goes too much ad-lib, but I don't see him like Fields because he's always keeping his eyes down field. Its why I like him and McCarthy as my top 2 QB's (I haven't watched enough of Daniels to figure out). 

But after that 2nd year - the team still will have basically 4 years of control on the QB (if they want to) - that includes a 5th year option and use of franchise tag in the following year (we hope it doesn't get to that point).  In that window this should still be an ascending football club given the rest of the assets they have and if you hit on the QB (and the QB is going to be coming into a situation where the cupboard is much better equipped...oline sans center is solid, you have a #1 wideout (and this is a draft where you can get a 2nd high end wideout with the Bears pick) and the defense is trending up.  The Bears also have a TON of cap space so they could really stockpile the offense. For example - they could sign Tee Higgins and go with Moore / Higgins and than use a draft pick on someone like Bowers to go with Kmet.  Basically 4 above average weapons, solid oline (draft a center & sign one - they have the cap space for it) and your young QB should be in a tremendous position.  

I'm in the camp that I'm going option 2 - unless Fields really balls out where it looks like his ceiling is a 5-7 QB, in which case than I think you are talking about someone like Dak, and at that point, I think I trade out of #1 and get way more assets and basically just say this guy is good enough to consistently win with and if I put the right team around him I can go far.  Fields has shown a ton of improvement this year - I won't deny that, but he hasn't shown that he elevates the rest of the team and that to me is what I consider a different maker and the type of player that I would give a multi-year extension at QB.  

Disagree here. If the Bears nail the QB pick this offseason there is a very good chance they make the playoffs next year. What is going on down in Houston right now is evidence of that. Waiting around forver for a QB to develop like the Bears have done with Fields over the past 3 years is not the only way things can go down. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

51 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't think they have been consistent, I'm not sure injuries each week. But obviously Maxx Crosby terrorized the packers. Lions don't have a great pass rush, but Chiefs do, and Packers line held both in check. 

Seemed like it may have been a) start with bakhtiari, really strong, b) bakhtiari lost for year, temporary reshuffling, c) oline improves, Love improves, dominate chiefs dline.

 

With Runyon about to lose his starting job, packers will be starting three offensive lineman from the 2022 draft taken in the 3rd, 4th, and 7th rounds…

[ptatc]

58 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Disagree here. If the Bears nail the QB pick this offseason there is a very good chance they make the playoffs next year. What is going on down in Houston right now is evidence of that. Waiting around forver for a QB to develop like the Bears have done with Fields over the past 3 years is not the only way things can go down. 

The problem with this is you are assuming that the QB they draft is going to have the greatest rookie season ever like stroud is. His season is an anomaly as it's the best ever. You can't expect every draftee to do that. Even if they will be good later. 

[Flash Tizzle]

8 hours ago, ptatc said:

The problem with this is you are assuming that the QB they draft is going to have the greatest rookie season ever like stroud is. His season is an anomaly as it's the best ever. You can't expect every draftee to do that. Even if they will be good later. 

LittleHurt didn’t set the expectations of drafting a generational QB. He said the right pick for QB can lead us to the playoffs, which is actually not uncommon for first year QB’s. 

Although I personally believe having the potential #1 pick in two straight seasons, we should all be setting that standard as a minimum. Kevin Warren can’t possibly look Poles in the face after missing out on Stroud (and say Jayden Daniels) and not feel physically ill if the justification is -  I wanted to see how Fields would fare with additional weapons/protection. Whatever route he chooses, it must be the right one. And given these last couple seasons, he should be feeling the pressure

Edited December 5, 2023 by Flash Tizzle

[Kyyle23]

That ankle didn’t look too good for Trevor Lawrence 

[CentralChamps21]

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by CentralChamps21

[Kyyle23]

Have to think he is staying there is Rivera is bounced.  Seemed like he was hired to be heir to Ron

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Have to think he is staying there is Rivera is bounced.  Seemed like he was hired to be heir to Ron

New ownership group may want a total fresh start.

Sure is a lot of bears coaching news. Feel like maybe bears know at this point they are taking a QB, and can't justify keeping the staff for that process.

[Chisoxfn]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Have to think he is staying there is Rivera is bounced.  Seemed like he was hired to be heir to Ron

All reports seemed to indicate the players aren't on  board with him and it sounds like new ownership's lean was likely for an entirely fresh start.  What I don't know is - are the players not lining up with Bieniemy is that a player issue (as in the players are soft) or is it really a coach issue and his more direct, aggressive nature doesn't work for these athletes. Maybe it was fine when he was with Andy Reid and they compared and contrasted well and same with Rivera - but when you switch to HC maybe it causes an issue.

In general though - from outsider(s) view I would think if you stuck with Flus (and not sure this is what it is saying) than yeah, Bienemy would be a great candidate as an OC.  I don't know that he would be my go to as a head coach. I'm entirely in the camp of right a blank check to Harbaugh and give it a whirl.  

[Kyyle23]

Retaining flus is a career ending decision for Poles imo.  Like Emery going back to scout after GM career ending.

 

you cannot have the personnel issues that happened earlier this season happen and keep your job when the season is over.  And I don’t care that last year didn’t matter and that plays into the worst HC record in the history of the bears.  Games mattered this year, and this team was belly up for the first six games this season and has only marginally shown signs of life, and a lot of the losses have occurred due to bad coaching.  

[bmags]

I like Harbaugh. I like Johnson. I like Waldron. 

I hope Vrabel finds a way out of TN (not meshing with new GM, eh eh eh)

Defensively, I think Mike Macdonald of ravens is going to be a stud coach.

But definitely want out of eberflus.

[SoxAce]

New England just beat Pittsburgh.. which is absolutely huge for the #1 pick for the Bears now. 

[Chisoxfn]

That is big time 

[bmags]

Honestly felt a bit bad for mitch but my God he was bad.

The last 4-5 years, weirdly has left me less sympathetic to this view that QBs are "doomed" based on their situations. I see way too much retrofitting of this to try and make it seem like Herbert/Stroud had these great situations.

There really is this element to the top ten QBs of you either have it or you don't, and then a mix of 10 still "often can make it work" qbs, and then utter trash. It's an insane position. It really took me out of the NFL for a bit because it was so random but it's fascinating nonetheless.

I still think Justin Fields could be in that 2nd tier if he cuts down on the fumbles. But it appears the ability to process information extremely fast, correctly, while keeping your body in a position to throw a football accurately 15-30 yards to targets moving 20 mph while also giants are about to sack you is a rare, rare skill that is hard to know if you have until you are faced with the speed of the nfl.