2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[Kyyle23]

I know refs usually notify them but damn that’s a full foot over.  What the hell was Toney thinking 

[Milkman delivers]

The Chiefs are used to getting the old Patriots treatment. At least one blatant BS call a game in their favor that leads to a win. I understand why they’re surprised.

[bmags]

23 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I know refs usually notify them but damn that’s a full foot over.  What the hell was Toney thinking 

Especially since Toney has done so many stupid things in football games, i'd be livid.

[Harry Chappas]

45 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I know refs usually notify them but damn that’s a full foot over.  What the hell was Toney thinking 

I like tha the Chiefs were complaining that they usually warn them.  Yes they warn them but it is illegal and with a minute left you don't warn them.  My guess is that he was warned earlier.  It didn't impact the play but it's still stupid. 

[Highland]

Mahomes is acting like a self-entitled crybaby. The rules don't stop being the rules just because it is late in the game. Football can be frustrating because some infractions don't affect the play. But the penalty was the right call.

I remember a play in a playoff game when the Chiefs had the ball inside the five with no timeouts and time running out in the half. Mahomes should have thrown a pass in the end zone and, if incomplete, KC would have a FG attempt. Instead, he throws it to a guy at the two. The receiver can't get in the end zone and time runs out with KC getting nothing. After the game, Mahomes wouldn't admit the mistake.

He is a great player so he can get away with this stuff. And he will get away with it. But he had no right to blame the officials. At least not on this call. 

[chw42]

9 minutes ago, Highland said:

Mahomes is acting like a self-entitled crybaby. The rules don't stop being the rules just because it is late in the game. Football can be frustrating because some infractions don't affect the play. But the penalty was the right call.

I remember a play in a playoff game when the Chiefs had the ball inside the five with no timeouts and time running out in the half. Mahomes should have thrown a pass in the end zone and, if incomplete, KC would have a FG attempt. Instead, he throws it to a guy at the two. The receiver can't get in the end zone and time runs out with KC getting nothing. After the game, Mahomes wouldn't admit the mistake.

He is a great player so he can get away with this stuff. And he will get away with it. But he had no right to blame the officials. At least not on this call. 

He really should be yelling at Toney. This is a terrible look for Mahomes and I feel like the general consensus among football fans was that Mahomes already gets a bunch of calls. Him saying the refs should ignore the rules late in the game just validates that consensus. 

This is like kids saying cool plays should stand because they're cool...that's not how sports should work. 

[bmags]

One of the funnier parts is just how annoyed some fans were that the holding call in the super bowl decided the game rather than letting the players play. That benefitted KC, but also, that penalty was in the flow of the play where you could decide to call or not.

He brought up that this didn't affect the success of the play, but on the other hand, it was called right away. The ref would have had no idea what was about to happen.

That said, all the top athletes are psychopaths like this. They hate losing. I agree its a bad look but on the other hand it's not surprising. 

[Kyyle23]

It’s weird that people are genuinely bothered by Mahomes slamming his helmet down and being mad about losing lol.  They are the current world champs and he knows that they look like ass right now, of course he is mad

[Highland]

16 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

It’s weird that people are genuinely bothered by Mahomes slamming his helmet down and being mad about losing lol.  They are the current world champs and he knows that they look like ass right now, of course he is mad

I have nothing against him getting frustrated or even angry. He is not the first player to slam a helmet or throw a bat. But don't scapegoat the refs for a loss. No one gets the benefit of every call. 

[Kyyle23]

11 minutes ago, Highland said:

I have nothing against him getting frustrated or even angry. He is not the first player to slam a helmet or throw a bat. But don't scapegoat the refs for a loss. No one gets the benefit of every call. 

I wasn’t subtweeting you 

[bmags]

I don't really have a strong opinion on what to do with fields. I lean toward drafting a QB, but I do like him a lot despite it all.

But earlier in the year one of the common refrains was showing how obvious it was that you should build a super team like Detroit and you can see how much better the QB gets.

Goff is a top 20 qb. He's capable of doing a lot on the field. But we did see why a team moved on was when it was the best of the best he wasn't good enough. I thought it would take until jan for the stakes to remind people of what a top QB can be. Purdy will still be pointed to, but who knows with him. I would just say that if your team stays super healthy it looks easy. 

With Fields, I still worry that when game script goes off he doesn't seem to fight through it well. ANd I don't think that's a good trait for playoff teams.

Funny how every year in the NFL i forget how long the season is and how quickly it can change. After the broncos game I thought how on earth could this get worse. Win just two games in a row and you think "this winning will never end"

[Tony]

https://x.com/rapsheet/status/1734231793329471944?s=46&t=Nd9oJCYs4TMp8_32NrPiMA

[Kyyle23]

28 minutes ago, Tony said:

https://x.com/rapsheet/status/1734231793329471944?s=46&t=Nd9oJCYs4TMp8_32NrPiMA

He got the Deforest Buckner figure of this defense, finally

[Chisoxfn]

54 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't really have a strong opinion on what to do with fields. I lean toward drafting a QB, but I do like him a lot despite it all.

But earlier in the year one of the common refrains was showing how obvious it was that you should build a super team like Detroit and you can see how much better the QB gets.

Goff is a top 20 qb. He's capable of doing a lot on the field. But we did see why a team moved on was when it was the best of the best he wasn't good enough. I thought it would take until jan for the stakes to remind people of what a top QB can be. Purdy will still be pointed to, but who knows with him. I would just say that if your team stays super healthy it looks easy. 

With Fields, I still worry that when game script goes off he doesn't seem to fight through it well. ANd I don't think that's a good trait for playoff teams.

Funny how every year in the NFL i forget how long the season is and how quickly it can change. After the broncos game I thought how on earth could this get worse. Win just two games in a row and you think "this winning will never end"

I watched the game and my view of the game was even more convinced to move away from Fields.  I just don't think he plays within the confines of the offense. With that said - he is physically the most dynamic QB in the league. Him and Josh Allen to me are the two most physically superior QB's in the NFL.  

Mahomes is the goat - so not saying the other 2 are above him - but what Allen and Fields can do - they are just huge dudes, who can run, and who have cannon's.  So I get if the Bears just want to bet on the physical and leadership qualities that Justin has and figure the rest of the game will come to him.  

To be honest - the Bears having the #1 pick is what makes this hard. If the Bears didn't have the 2 picks or were picking at 8 and 14 - I would be pretty square in the camp of stick with Flus and just keep adding talent.  But when you have the #1 overall pick - you have to ask - do I go QB. And if I go QB - than I probably need to change HC so I align the HC and QB's clock (doing otherwise is a mistake).  If I stick with Justin - I don't have to dump the HC if I don't want to.  I may still dump the OC - I don't know (and I get it - that could be a hard job to hire - but that is also going to be a job where if you go in and do well you are going to get a ton of visibility).  

In reality - I think the Bears are in a win-win situation as long as they draft well. 

Scenario 1: Keep Fields - Trade #1 for Top 10 #1 in '24, Next Year #1, '24 2nd Rounder, '25 2nd Rounder, & 1 Blue Chip Player (or a '26 1st rounder).

In this scenario - continue to build a very good football team around the QB.  Just watching that Eagles / Cowboys game - Dak and Hurts are good (and how good is a debate we can have) - but they have a TON of talent around them.  Both have strong olines and historically good rushing attacks - they also have deep wide receiving corps (their WR room is 3X the Bears room - which at this point is basically Moore and everyone else).  Cowboys have Cedee, Gallup, Cooks plus a strong TE.  Eagles have good TE play, AJ Brown, Devontae Smith, etc.  Both teams have good defenses too.  

1st Round: You draft a blue chip wide out (potentially you are talking about MHJ still depending on how much you move back) and draft an olinemen (or double down on weapons).  Or you draft a 3 Tech and an Olinemen and draft a wideout in Rd2 and spend money on Tee Higgins and the Vikings Dlinemen.  Or the blue chipper you get on the Line is a Max Crosby via a trade with the Raiders. 

Free Agency: Resign JJ & Sign a couple impact players - think Tee Higgins, Vikings Dlinemen, FA center

Rest of the Draft: Best available - continue to build depth - try to identify a young center prospect and a safety to replace Jackson.  

Scenario 2: Draft QB @ #1 overall - Pick Playmaker or Oline with other Bears pick.  Trade Fields to Raiders, Seahawks, Falcons or anyone else and ideally get 2 2nd Rounders.  Hire new coaching staff.

In this scenario - you still have the goal of building best football team, but now you reset the QB clock.  The bulk of my off-season would stay the course of the above scenario - other than I'd probably be a bit more aggressive to sign more blue-chip players via free agency, however, there is a balancing act here as we will have hired a new coaching staff which means there will be more turnover.  Yes the defense is trending favorably - but a new HC will have new people and new philosophies.  Some players will fit, some won't.  Turnover will definitely happen - it always does - new coaches have new favorites and use certain players to send examples.  

[Tony]

Say the Bears win 2 more games this season, which seems pretty possible. That’s 7 wins with two historic losses mixed into the season. Let’s say one of the wins is against the Packers last week of the season. There are going to be some decent vibes heading into the offseason.

Is Poles going to fire the entire coaching staff, trade Fields, draft a rookie QB and then make the other additions via the draft and FA? That seems like a huge offseason that more feels like Madden then the NFL. Not saying it wouldn’t be the right move, just talking about odds

[Flash Tizzle]

45 minutes ago, Tony said:

Say the Bears win 2 more games this season, which seems pretty possible. That’s 7 wins with two historic losses mixed into the season. Let’s say one of the wins is against the Packers last week of the season. There are going to be some decent vibes heading into the offseason.

Is Poles going to fire the entire coaching staff, trade Fields, draft a rookie QB and then make the other additions via the draft and FA? That seems like a huge offseason that more feels like Madden then the NFL. Not saying it wouldn’t be the right move, just talking about odds

In such a scenario, they may very well play themselves out of a Top 10 pick.  Which doesn’t really allow a Daniels/Maye/Williams + MHJ scenario. I believe there would be a lot of pressure to hold onto Fields. Which is so aggravating because that’s potentially 2 straights years we’ve had the #1 pick. Are we going to look back and say we passed on Stroud and Daniels/Maye/Williams because….we were content with Fields? It’s absurd. Bears fans and management should stop being content with, good enough. Take a shot and develop a franchise QB. Fields isn't that guy for us 

[Chisoxfn]

19 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said:

In such a scenario, they may very well play themselves out of a Top 10 pick.  Which doesn’t really allow a Daniels/Maye/Williams + MHJ scenario. I believe there would be a lot of pressure to hold onto Fields. Which is so aggravating because that’s potentially 2 straights years we’ve had the #1 pick. Are we going to look back and say we passed on Stroud and Daniels/Maye/Williams because….we were content with Fields? It’s absurd. Bears fans and management should stop being content with, good enough. Take a shot and develop a franchise QB. Fields isn't that guy for us 

I don't think there is any scenario they get MHJ other than MHJ being injured (or Bears taking him with their 1st pick and than taking a QB with the 2nd pick).  Arizona isn't taking a QB and is going to pick early and Bears aren't going to have 2 picks in  top 5.  MHJ is going top 5.  

In the top 5 - I see Pats & Giants as 2 teams for sure taking a QB with their 1st pick.  I think the Jets & Cardinals are likely not going QB.  Cardinals could - but that would require them to move Murray (he has a lot of guaranteed money - but it is certainly possible for them to do so).  

I also see whomever is sitting at #1 (ie., if it is Bears there) to take a QB. That either means the Bears or the Bears making a trade with another team who wants to jump the other teams to take a QB. So long story short - I see 3 QB's going very early.  

I have Jets or Cardinals as being the team(s) most likely to nab MHJ (or Bears if they trade back ever so slightly and don't take a QB with the Panthers pick).  

[Chisoxfn]

Seperate topic - Bears passed on Pickens last year for Brisker.  I think after 1st season there were some questions there and in fairness Pickens production has been stellar - but the character / teammate concerns seem to be bubbling up. At same time - Brisker looked like an absolute all pro safety this past weekend.

I worry whether Brisker will be able to stay healthy - given how physical he plays - but man, he looks like a multiplier on the defensive side of the ball.  

[Tony]

1 hour ago, Flash Tizzle said:

In such a scenario, they may very well play themselves out of a Top 10 pick.  Which doesn’t really allow a Daniels/Maye/Williams + MHJ scenario. I believe there would be a lot of pressure to hold onto Fields. Which is so aggravating because that’s potentially 2 straights years we’ve had the #1 pick. Are we going to look back and say we passed on Stroud and Daniels/Maye/Williams because….we were content with Fields? It’s absurd. Bears fans and management should stop being content with, good enough. Take a shot and develop a franchise QB. Fields isn't that guy for us 

I can absolutely get on board with drafting a QB at No. 1 overall. The Bears FO has to be convinced Maye or Williams can do things better than Fields can do at an NFL level, simple as that. I'm not taking a QB No. 1 overall and trading Fields simply to reset the clock. Even as a 5 win team right now, I think the locker room and the core they've built there will be fairly against moving on from Fields and bringing a rookie in there to lead the room. Not saying that's why you DON'T draft a QB (They're professionals, they'll move on quick if the new guy is legit) but I'm simply saying there are a lot of moving pieces to consider with the No. 1 pick. 

Luckily, they don't need to make the decision today. They've got 4 more games and while I don't know if those 4 games will tell us a ton about Fields (since we have 3 years of tape at this point) I do think they will be a decent indicator overall of what direction the franchise should take in the offseason. 

Like last year, it's going to be incredibly interesting to watch and Pace has done a great job of giving himself multiple options to pursue. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

I don't think there is any scenario they get MHJ other than MHJ being injured (or Bears taking him with their 1st pick and than taking a QB with the 2nd pick).  Arizona isn't taking a QB and is going to pick early and Bears aren't going to have 2 picks in  top 5.  MHJ is going top 5.  

In the top 5 - I see Pats & Giants as 2 teams for sure taking a QB with their 1st pick.  I think the Jets & Cardinals are likely not going QB.  Cardinals could - but that would require them to move Murray (he has a lot of guaranteed money - but it is certainly possible for them to do so).  

I also see whomever is sitting at #1 (ie., if it is Bears there) to take a QB. That either means the Bears or the Bears making a trade with another team who wants to jump the other teams to take a QB. So long story short - I see 3 QB's going very early.  

I have Jets or Cardinals as being the team(s) most likely to nab MHJ (or Bears if they trade back ever so slightly and don't take a QB with the Panthers pick).  

Arizona isn't taking a QB? Are you sure about that? 

Let's imagine though that Arizona wins 1 more game with Murray back and gets up to 4 wins, creating a logjam. If Washington or NYG were in the #3 spot, would they trade up to #1 for Williams?

[Chisoxfn]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Arizona isn't taking a QB? Are you sure about that? 

Let's imagine though that Arizona wins 1 more game with Murray back and gets up to 4 wins, creating a logjam. If Washington or NYG were in the #3 spot, would they trade up to #1 for Williams?

I suppose they can - they just have so much dead money on that Kyler deal. Kind of need to have him go in a Jared Goff like package where you have to pay to move on from him.  With that in mind - they can do it - they have plenty of other draft capital so I could be wrong.  Everything I have read seems to think the new front office and coaching staff has enjoyed their time with Murray so it feels like they might do what the Bears did a year ago - build up the rest of the football team and than take a full season to assess Kyler.  

I'll be clear - I would take Kyler over Fields (looking at each of them 3 years into their respective careers.  But I'm probably in the minority. Kyler can really fling it.  I also think the Cardinals previous HC made Nagy look like an offensive genius.  

Note: I'm ignoring fact Kyler is coming off a serious injury.  I will also state I am on record as stating that I believe Fields and Allen are the two most physically gifted QB's in the NFL (Herbert would be 3rd).  

[The Beast]

11 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

I know refs usually notify them but damn that’s a full foot over.  What the hell was Toney thinking 

I don’t know if the rules indicate there has to be a warning given before being called for a penalty. Even if they warn players, it was late in the game. If KC was on defense and Buffalo scored the touchdown, KC would want that call. I see nothing wrong with the call.

As for Fields, I still think they need to build around him. Williams and Maye haven’t sold me and I’m not seeing something that is “can’t miss” about them. I also don’t know if Williams will enter the NFL draft or if he will play for Chicago if he is drafted. My text thread isn’t on board with replacing Fields.

Texter 1 (an Ohio State alum): So after yesterday's Bears game I'm even more convinced taking a QB would be the absolute wrong move.

Build around Fields. Give him a guy like Marvin Harrison Jr to throw to opposite DJ Moore.

If Fields ain't the guy by the time his rookie contract is up then you draft a QB.

The talent is there. Build around it.

Texter 2 (a Penn State alum): Yup, MHJr with the Panthers pick and best OL available with their pick.

Texter 1: Exactly. Then if you have to grab a new QB in a few years, he gets to develop around a ton of talent.

But there's also a reality where the extra talent keeps Fields healthy (OL) and elevates his play so they can put it all together.

QB carousel is the dumb dumb move. 

Texter 3: I agree with that assessment, Texter 1. The Bears need to either pick MHJr or trade the pick to some team and continue building draft capital, then pick a WR and an OL. I want Poles to put his money where his mouth is and start building more in the trenches. 

I'm so sick of the QB carousel and want Fields to succeed. Even when he fucked up in the Minnesota game I wanted him to succeed. 

Recall that the stakes are high with number one overall picks. Ryan Leaf CAN happen. Lance did not succeed and neither did Trubisky. You can always pick a QB in the mid round or trade assets to move up. I'm also not convinced Williams is as good as people believe him to be and I think he's kind of got some weird entitlement issues. 

Texter 4 in an unrelated thread during the Minnesota game: They don't let him rip because out of 10 passes downfield, he may make 1 or 2! He overthrows receivers too often. His numbers don't look that bad because he makes 15-20 passes a game less than 5 yards. 

You think he gets one play off before he fumbles it or throws a int?

Edited December 12, 2023 by The Beast

[Chisoxfn]

That was a dime right there by Love. 

[chw42]

I thought the Bears blew the worst game of the season against the Lions, but the Dolphins just one-upped them by giving up a 14 point lead to the Titans with a little under 4 minutes to go. 

[chw42]

1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

That was a dime right there by Love. 

He took huge steps back today. The bad accuracy from earlier in the season came back. The Giants blitzed him a lot and he didn't look quite as comfortable under pressure as he had against the Chiefs.