ptatc Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 50 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: It's tough to answer this one because his season has been so weird - those first 3 games were "deer in the headlights" bad, he looked like me out there trying to figure out how to read a defense. He hasn't been the best QB in the league the rest of the year, but he hasn't been nearly as blatantly awful as he was in those games. You can find the clips in this thread, there were so many "What are you even looking at" plays that no one could tell what was going on - he looked substantially worse than last year. Then, he snapped back the other way, and started having actually quality performances. That can't just have been "we need to make him a pocket passer" because something was clearly short-circuiting in his decision making at those times and I don't know what that was. Does that mean he could be better if he avoids a stretch like that? Does that mean he could have a longer stretch like that next year and just be completely awful? I'm not sure. Good points. However he just hasn't progressed to the point of the franchise type QB. Will he be good, possibly. But if they have the chance to get a true franchise player, they should take it. If the team improves as is the goal, they won't have this type of chance for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 38 minutes ago, Tony said: Everyone is sort of saying the same thing, and it's what I was also saying last night. If Poles believes one of Williams or Maye could be a true franchise QB, and if he's right....then it's absolutely the right call to draft one of them at No. 1. The team as currently constructed, today, is probably an 8-9 win team next year. If you trade the No. 1 overall, given the salary cap the Bears have, plus draft capital, 10 wins seems very possible next year WITH Fields and this current group. But that still comes with the limitations Fields brings on the field, as well as him being in Year 4 of his contract. I see both sides and will accept either path, because these are not bad problems to have. Agreed. I will accept it but be very skeptical until we see how the QBs then drafted by perform and how the bears progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 13 minutes ago, ptatc said: If the team improves as is the goal, they won't have this type of chance for years. I mean...they could? If they traded down and had a couple of extra first rounders the next couple years? It worked this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Tony said: Everyone is sort of saying the same thing, and it's what I was also saying last night. If Poles believes one of Williams or Maye could be a true franchise QB, and if he's right....then it's absolutely the right call to draft one of them at No. 1. The team as currently constructed, today, is probably an 8-9 win team next year. If you trade the No. 1 overall, given the salary cap the Bears have, plus draft capital, 10 wins seems very possible next year WITH Fields and this current group. But that still comes with the limitations Fields brings on the field, as well as him being in Year 4 of his contract. I see both sides and will accept either path, because these are not bad problems to have. Option 3: Trade Fields and the #1 pick and start Bagnet. You know some crazy fan has called into The Score with that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 45 minutes ago, Quin said: Option 3: Trade Fields and the #1 pick and start Bagnet. You know some crazy fan has called into The Score with that Here is what would really blow Bears fans brains up. They trade down in the first, keep Fields, and draft a QB in Round 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, Tony said: Here is what would really blow Bears fans brains up. They trade down in the first, keep Fields, and draft a QB in Round 2 I’m sorta there…but with pick 2. Im actually kinda out on the “pick the QB you have conviction on”. If anything, bears are lucky they don’t have to do that (they aren’t trading up to get “their guy). If anything NFL evaluators should be more humbled on this whole process. What seems improbable now (Penix/mccarthy end up best QB in the class) is what happens quite often. But that’s not that weird…it also happens with other positions. Still think haul + top 3 receiver + penix mccarthy + keep fields is a fine idea but seems crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 15 minutes ago, bmags said: I’m sorta there…but with pick 2. Im actually kinda out on the “pick the QB you have conviction on”. If anything, bears are lucky they don’t have to do that (they aren’t trading up to get “their guy). If anything NFL evaluators should be more humbled on this whole process. What seems improbable now (Penix/mccarthy end up best QB in the class) is what happens quite often. But that’s not that weird…it also happens with other positions. Still think haul + top 3 receiver + penix mccarthy + keep fields is a fine idea but seems crazy. I am fine with that idea. Competition is huge in nfl. If fields takes next step who cares if you took a later first or a 2nd on a qb. Shoot you could always trade them after they had a season behind if you really needed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 14 minutes ago, bmags said: I’m sorta there…but with pick 2. Im actually kinda out on the “pick the QB you have conviction on”. If anything, bears are lucky they don’t have to do that (they aren’t trading up to get “their guy). If anything NFL evaluators should be more humbled on this whole process. What seems improbable now (Penix/mccarthy end up best QB in the class) is what happens quite often. But that’s not that weird…it also happens with other positions. Still think haul + top 3 receiver + penix mccarthy + keep fields is a fine idea but seems crazy. The national championship could raise or sink Penix/McCarthy's stock quite a bit. Kiper had them outside of his top 25 before the semi finals and now both are on there. Penix at 10 (too high) and McCarthy in the low 20s. If both have a good game and do well during pre-draft there's a chance both are gone by the early 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, chw42 said: The national championship could raise or sink Penix/McCarthy's stock quite a bit. Kiper had them outside of his top 25 before the semi finals and now both are on there. Penix at 10 (too high) and McCarthy in the low 20s. If both have a good game and do well during pre-draft there's a chance both are gone by the early 2nd. McCarthy is the perfect draft and sit candidate in my opinion. Tons of tools but definitely needs a year or two off. I think the combo of him, Fields and Bagent is fine with me if they want to go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: McCarthy is the perfect draft and sit candidate in my opinion. Tons of tools but definitely needs a year or two off. I think the combo of him, Fields and Bagent is fine with me if they want to go that route. Also Penix is way too old to sit. He's only a year younger than Fields and Fields is almost done with his rookie contract. Edited January 5 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 4 hours ago, Balta1701 said: I mean...they could? If they traded down and had a couple of extra first rounders the next couple years? It worked this year. Could yes. Likely no. They got lucky that the team they traded with was the worst this year. Could it happen again, yes. But the odds are against it as Carolina is probably there again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, chw42 said: Also Penix is way too old to sit. He's only a year younger than Fields and Fields is almost done with his rookie contract. Meh, it’s not like he’s a pitcher. Good QBs play until they are 35+. But yes, the evals are all over the place on them. But McCarthys age + offense makes him great to try to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Thank y'all. My students were discussing the draft and I plagiarized y'all and picked up some football cred with them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 9 hours ago, bmags said: Meh, it’s not like he’s a pitcher. Good QBs play until they are 35+. But yes, the evals are all over the place on them. But McCarthys age + offense makes him great to try to develop. Two ACLs (both knees) and two other major injuries might push him down on some boards to the 2nd or 3rd because of risk mitigation, but have a feeling someone will pull the trigger in the late first or early 2nd. Edited January 6 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 4 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Two ACLs (both knees) and two other major injuries might push him down on some boards to the 2nd or 3rd because of risk mitigation, but have a feeling someone will pull the trigger in the late first or early 2nd. Yeah. I think by April we’ll think he’s a first rounder then at the draft he’ll be a 2nd/3rd. Remember last year there were some Hendon Hooker to the Seahawks (at 18) rumors. The red flags and outlier age are a big thing. But his arm thing where the ball shoots out of a cannon right on target is pretty cool too. truth be told I liked hooker last year a lot. Maybe the “man among boys” is less of an issue for QB where mental reps and more reps vs pressure is still valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, bmags said: Yeah. I think by April we’ll think he’s a first rounder then at the draft he’ll be a 2nd/3rd. Remember last year there were some Hendon Hooker to the Seahawks (at 18) rumors. The red flags and outlier age are a big thing. But his arm thing where the ball shoots out of a cannon right on target is pretty cool too. truth be told I liked hooker last year a lot. Maybe the “man among boys” is less of an issue for QB where mental reps and more reps vs pressure is still valuable. He has a lot of weird throwing angles and his mechanics aren't clean but scouts love his deep ball accuracy. The problem is he has a great receiving corps at Washington with three studs and a relatively strong line...it's how much more they can improve the short and medium passing game, combined with his escapability at the college level being closed down by the next level speed in the pros. He also isn't very adept at throwing on the run...at least not until more recent games. Half the NFL teams automatically have him off their first round draft boards due to his injury/medical history. Makes a great resilience/perseverance story for the championship game...but going with heart over logic usually doesn't end well in the NFL. That said...look at Brock Purdy. With the right offensive firepower surrounding you and an ideal coordinator for your game (or Tua in Miami), anything is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: He has a lot of weird throwing angles and his mechanics aren't clean but scouts love his deep ball accuracy. The problem is he has a great receiving corps at Washington with three studs and a relatively strong line...it's how much more they can improve the short and medium passing game, combined with his escapability at the college level being closed down by the next level speed in the pros. He also isn't very adept at throwing on the run...at least not until more recent games. Half the NFL teams automatically have him off their first round draft boards due to his injury/medical history. Makes a great resilience/perseverance story for the championship game...but going with heart over logic usually doesn't end well in the NFL. That said...look at Brock Purdy. With the right offensive firepower surrounding you and an ideal coordinator for your game (or Tua in Miami), anything is possible. Most QBs at the NFL level can win with the right pieces around. The key is finding one that can win without them because injuries and salary cap casualties happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 CJ Stroud. Pretty pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Can we have a CJ Stroud too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Insane TD/INT ratio for a rookie. Not to mention there were times he played without Collins this year...talk about a true no-name offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 36 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Can we have a CJ Stroud too? Well, we could have had him. I cannot wait to see the next great QB we pass to keep Fields… 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 44 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Insane TD/INT ratio for a rookie. Not to mention there were times he played without Collins this year...talk about a true no-name offense. Anyone Bears fan who watches both Stroud and Fields and is happy to settle for Fields is insane. It’s not even close. Stroud’s supporting cast is worse than Fields’ and Stroud keeps losing his receiver targets, yet still keeps getting it done. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 14 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said: Well, we could have had him. I cannot wait to see the next great QB we pass to keep Fields… I know we feel bad but just imagine being a Panthers fan. You just took the wrong QB and have to watch the Bears do whatever they want with your #1 pick. Putrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Who kicks a 57 yard field goal in a tie game to give the ball back to Stroud on the 43 yard line? Ballsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 36 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Who kicks a 57 yard field goal in a tie game to give the ball back to Stroud on the 43 yard line? Ballsy. Plenty of distance indoors...just faded. Great play by Stroud on that drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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