Leury not on OD Roster per DVS

[Timmy U]

13 hours ago, pcq said:

Dodgers should trade for Anderson for a couple of prospects and Michael Busch per Joel Reuter. Complete speculation it seems. Never mind. 

Why would the Sox want Michael Busch? He cannot play 2b, and they already have plenty of 1b/DH types.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

With Romy seemingly playing himself out of consideration for opening day, I think Leury's spot on the roster is all but assured.

I think my favorite bench configuration (as of now) is Leury/Sheets/Alberto/Zavala.

Alberto only played outfield like 3 times in his life but that's enouhg for me ALBERTO OVER LEURY

[Bob Sacamano]

33 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

With Romy seemingly playing himself out of consideration for opening day, I think Leury's spot on the roster is all but assured.

I think my favorite bench configuration (as of now) is Leury/Sheets/Alberto/Zavala.

I still think they will carry a real 4th OF. And yeah, if Romy were hitting, I think Leury would actually have a decent chance of being DFA'd but as you said, he's playing himself off the roster.

[bmags]

I just can't stress enough how little I value Leury's left handedness when the productivity of it is so awful.

[ChiSoxTrojan]

10 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I still think they will carry a real 4th OF. And yeah, if Romy were hitting, I think Leury would actually have a decent chance of being DFA'd but as you said, he's playing himself off the roster.

Maybe Marisnick or Hamilton replaces Alberto, but I don't think so. For one thing, Alberto has almost doubled the batting lines of either of them this Spring. But for another, if you consider that the team seems intent on playing Eloy in the OF, they're actually in more need of infield depth than OF depth. They're at least 3-deep with guys at every OF spot even without one of Hamilton/Marisnick:

• LF: Benintendi, Eloy, Leury
• CF: Robert, Leury, Colas (in a pinch)
• RF: Colas, Eloy, Leury, Sheets (in a pinch)

At 2B/3B/SS, it's just the starters and Leury. Admittedly CF is a bit thin, but having one position that is thin is better than having 3.

[ChiSoxTrojan]

20 minutes ago, bmags said:

I just can't stress enough how little I value Leury's left handedness when the productivity of it is so awful.

For the sake of argument, let's consider that a lot of Leury's awfulness in 2022 was due to overuse/resulting injuries/having to play through resulting injuries because of the corpse making decisions in the dugout.

If that's true, and Leury is closer to the guy who slashed .261/.342/.375 against RHP in 2021, that's probably better than we should expect from any other option for the backup infielder spot. Not a great situation, but I don't see any alternatives?

[Bob Sacamano]

12 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

Maybe Marisnick or Hamilton replaces Alberto, but I don't think so. For one thing, Alberto has almost doubled the batting lines of either of them this Spring. But for another, if you consider that the team seems intent on playing Eloy in the OF, they're actually in more need of infield depth than OF depth. They're at least 3-deep with guys at every OF spot even without one of Hamilton/Marisnick:

• LF: Benintendi, Eloy, Leury
• CF: Robert, Leury, Colas (in a pinch)
• RF: Colas, Eloy, Leury, Sheets (in a pinch)

At 2B/3B/SS, it's just the starters and Leury. Admittedly CF is a bit thin, but having one position that is thin is better than having 3.

I don't really feel like coming back to the argument of why Sheets isn't needed on the bench.

Edit: I don't think the 4th OF spot goes to Marisnick or Hamilton. It will probably be a minor trade or waiver claim or something if I were guessing since both guys suck.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[ChiSoxTrojan]

Just now, Bob Sacamano said:

I don't really feel like coming back to the argument of why Sheets isn't needed on the bench.

If you're not taking Sheets then you're taking Burger? Same situation where the OF is covered and the IF is thin (I suppose Burger would get some time at 3B, but not at 2B/SS).

If you're suggesting Leury/Alberto/an OF, I just think that's a really weak bench with absolutely no pop, on a team that needs more HRs, not less.

Btw, I know you didn't want to discuss it, but I'm going to bring it up anyway. I think the argument for Sheets not having a role is based on the idea that Colas will get almost all of his off days against LHP. From what I've seen, Colas does not need to be platooned like that, at all. He's just as good against LHP as RHP (his numbers last year were slightly better against LHP, actually). Colas will get plenty of days off, especially early on, but they're just as likely to come against RHP as LHP - in fact more so since most SPs in the ALC (and in MLB) are right-handed. I want Sheets's more well-rounded LH bat around for those games, over the "two true outcomes" approach of Burger.

[bmags]

30 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

For the sake of argument, let's consider that a lot of Leury's awfulness in 2022 was due to overuse/resulting injuries/having to play through resulting injuries because of the corpse making decisions in the dugout.

If that's true, and Leury is closer to the guy who slashed .261/.342/.375 against RHP in 2021, that's probably better than we should expect from any other option for the backup infielder spot. Not a great situation, but I don't see any alternatives?

He's a career 73 wRC+ against RHP. It's just not an advantage. And with 2 LH outfielders, switch handed 3b/C, I feel like we are mostly covered. 

Leury offers slightly below average defense and below average hitting from 7 different positions. That is an improvement over needing to play a fan from the stands or Gavin Sheets in the outfield, but marisnick in OF is plus D. Leury in the infield sucks, he's older, and was one of the worst players in baseball last year.

Onto the next.

[ChiSoxTrojan]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

He's a career 73 wRC+ against RHP. It's just not an advantage. And with 2 LH outfielders, switch handed 3b/C, I feel like we are mostly covered. 

Leury offers slightly below average defense and below average hitting from 7 different positions. That is an improvement over needing to play a fan from the stands or Gavin Sheets in the outfield, but marisnick in OF is plus D. Leury in the infield sucks, he's older, and was one of the worst players in baseball last year.

Onto the next.

I was referring specifically to backup infielders. Someone has to backup the infield, right? Especially 2B/SS, where the starters both have a career wRC+ that is <100 against RHP?

A 73 wRC+ against RHP for Leury's career is not good. But it's significantly better than Alberto's 54, or Romy's 33.

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I just can't stress enough how little I value Leury's left handedness when the productivity of it is so awful.

Same with all of that positional "versatility"

[bmags]

11 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

I was referring specifically to backup infielders. Someone has to backup the infield, right? Especially 2B/SS, where the starters both have a career wRC+ that is <100 against RHP?

A 73 wRC+ against RHP for Leury's career is not good. But it's significantly better than Alberto's 54, or Romy's 33.

But at least Alberto’s a legit LHP platoon. What is Leury?

[Bob Sacamano]

13 minutes ago, bmags said:

But at least Alberto’s a legit LHP platoon. What is Leury?

A body.

[ChiSoxTrojan]

Just now, bmags said:

But at least Alberto’s a legit LHP platoon. What is Leury?

He's the guy that plays when there are no better options. Like if TA or Andrus need a day off against a RHP. You can't say those guys are only allowed to take a day off when there's a LHP on the mound - especially since neither is particularly good against RHP, and Alberto is borderline unusable against RHP.

Btw, about 2/3 of major league at bats come against RHP, so not being able to hit RHP at all is kind of a big flaw in one's game.

My suggestion was to have both Leury and Alberto on the roster, and mix and match based on the situation. I don't see the need for a defense-first OF like Marisnick when the starters are all pretty good defenders. It's not like you're going to have to sub them out in the 7th inning any time you have a lead like Sheets/Vaughn have needed over the past 2 years.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

He's the guy that plays when there are no better options. Like if TA or Andrus need a day off against a RHP. You can't say those guys are only allowed to take a day off when there's a LHP on the mound - especially since neither is particularly good against RHP, and Alberto is borderline unusable against RHP.

Btw, about 2/3 of major league at bats come against RHP, so not being able to hit RHP at all is kind of a big flaw in one's game.

My suggestion was to have both Leury and Alberto on the roster, and mix and match based on the situation. I don't see the need for a defense-first OF like Marisnick when the starters are all pretty good defenders. It's not like you're going to have to sub them out in the 7th inning any time you have a lead like Sheets/Vaughn have needed over the past 2 years.

But Leury can't hit RHP.

[CentralChamps21]

28 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

I was referring specifically to backup infielders. Someone has to backup the infield, right? Especially 2B/SS, where the starters both have a career wRC+ that is <100 against RHP?

A 73 wRC+ against RHP for Leury's career is not good. But it's significantly better than Alberto's 54, or Romy's 33.

When your wRC+ numbers get that low, I don't think 73 or 54 or 33 really matter. Even though it's not the side that the Sox would prefer, Alberto is at least an above average hitter from one side.

To put it another way, at 2B I'd take Alberto's 109 vs LHP and Andrus' 83 vs RHP over Andrus' 94 vs LHP and Leury's 71 vs RHP. Same for TA at SS

[ChiSoxTrojan]

1 hour ago, CentralChamps21 said:

When your wRC+ numbers get that low, I don't think 73 or 54 or 33 really matter. Even though it's not the side that the Sox would prefer, Alberto is at least an above average hitter from one side.

To put it another way, at 2B I'd take Alberto's 109 vs LHP and Andrus' 83 vs RHP over Andrus' 94 vs LHP and Leury's 71 vs RHP. Same for TA at SS

I disagree that there's no difference between a 73 and a 33. Look at Romy's career numbers against RHP to give yourself a sense of how bad a wRC+ of 33 is. 73 is replacement-level, 33 is unplayable.

I agree that Alberto's bat is useful against LHP, which is why I suggested keeping both Leury and Alberto. Both are more useful than a defense-only 5th OF like Marisnick or Hamilton.

[Quin]

40 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

I disagree that there's no difference between a 73 and a 33. Look at Romy's career numbers against RHP to give yourself a sense of how bad a wRC+ of 33 is. 73 is replacement-level, 33 is unplayable.

I agree that Alberto's bat is useful against LHP, which is why I suggested keeping both Leury and Alberto. Both are more useful than a defense-only 5th OF like Marisnick or Hamilton.

Leury had more MLB games last year with a 39 WRC+ than Romy has MLB games in his career.

I've liked Leury over the years, but man cratered as hard as you possibly can last year and he's still looked rough this spring. If he didn't have a contract, there'd be no question that you drop him.

Take defense / speed in the OF. Stop making the pitchers suffer. 

[Texsox]

Leury for life. The team has beaten me to the point where I just accept he'll be there. I'm hoping new year, new management, new usage. 

I'm also going to embrace that he's an underdog. He's managed a MLB career with below average skills through hard work and grit. He never slacks, just hustles his ass off every chance he gets. 

I'm just not going to suffer through another season where I just kept finding things to hate. 

[flavum]

In my lifetime, 13 Sox players have played 10+ seasons with the Sox. Leury is one of them. But so is Karkovice, Squires, and Hairston. These things happen. 

[Quin]

6 minutes ago, flavum said:

In my lifetime, 13 Sox players have played 10+ seasons with the Sox. Leury is one of them. But so is Karkovice, Squires, and Hairston. These things happen. 

I enjoy this article because it misses Leury Garcia, who should barely claim the #10 spot over Jose Ramirez.

https://www.mlb.com/news/longest-tenured-active-players-with-1-club

 

[Autumn Dreamin]

40 minutes ago, Quin said:

I enjoy this article because it misses Leury Garcia, who should barely claim the #10 spot over Jose Ramirez.

https://www.mlb.com/news/longest-tenured-active-players-with-1-club

 

Leury isn't a "one team player" though, he started with the Rangers.

[Quin]

41 minutes ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

Leury isn't a "one team player" though, he started with the Rangers.

Ah f***, missed the "original" part. 

He juuuuust sneaks by that.

[Vote4Pedro]

3 hours ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

Leury isn't a "one team player" though, he started with the Rangers.

Leury always in my opinion should have been let go after the rebuild was “over” and let go with players like Palka, Yolmer and DelMonico. He is not the super utility ben zobrist and has never been that guy. Recent managers have tried and tried to make him into that guy but he’s never truly been that player 

[Tnetennba]

4 hours ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

Leury isn't a "one team player" though, he started with the Rangers.

The curse of the Alex Rios trade

Edited March 18, 2023 by Tnetennba