Chisoxfn Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I'm still thinking that the Sox are gonna give Reed or AaRow every opportunity in March to win the CF job. In-house players have the inside track IMO, and we really don't need to focus on spending $$$ at CF. SS and 2B, along with SP are our needs. I think we are all jumping the gun on Colon. The guy is probably gonna find out that the FA market isn't what his agent is telling him it will be. The big money owners aren't gonna be forking out the dough this year. That $12 mill per season will start looking mighty tempting at that point. The key should be freeing up money so the Sox can have a KILLA pitching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Their are a ton of guys that could be had to play an outfield position like that. Insert Daubbie and you get solid numbers. Something like he did when he was in Boston and he'll give you a high OBP and won't cost much. I don't have the FA list in front of me, but there will always be a few players capable of doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Just thought I'd pass this tidbit of info along, concerning Colon's past salary information: Bartolo Colon RHP CHW Signed Mar 1999 - 5 years/$17.25M 1999: $0.5M (+$0.5M signing bonus) 2000: $1.0M 2001: $2.5M 2002: $4.5M 2003: $8.25M option exercised 2004: Free Agent -2003 option can rise from $6M to $8.25M if he meets incentives This guys financial status has almost doubled ever year...at some point, he has to reach his cap, and I think that the 12-13 that the Sox offered him is it. If there is another team to offer him more, and I don't think that there will be, then its the defination of overpaying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I'm telling you guys; Soriano and Johnson for Maggs and Konerko is a very realistic option. If the Yanks want to dump salary on us, then the Sox take on Weaver or what not, but they still save a ton giving them the money to sign two starters (If you lose Colon, go for Ponson/Pettite or something like that). Don't be shocked if the Sox then move Soriano to CF with Reed/Borchard slated for RF. Then Alomar resigns for a little bit and hits in the leadoff slot with Cabrerra behind him. Then you stick in Soriano in the 3 hole with Frank hitting 4 and Carlos in the 5 hole. Plug Johnson in the 6 hole, Crede in 7, your RF in 8, and Olivo in the 9 hole and your in pretty good shape. If the Sox don't want to resign Roberto, then they can decide whether to move Soriano to CF or play him at 2nd. Payroll wise, if they don't have to take on any Yanks payroll. THey save 22 mill. Colon gets 13 mill or so, giving you 9 mill left. I'd think that 9 mill could easily go into your replacement outfielder/Cabrerra and the rest into the bullpen. If they don't get Colon, pencil in about 7-8 mill for the starting pitcher and you have a bit more to spend elsewhere. I'd say some type of mixture with this would be the Sox best plan. Chisoxfn, I generally agree with, but you are missing the point on this topic. Maggs and Konerko for Soriano and Johnson is NOT a realistic option. The only reason why the Yankees are shopping Johnson is because Bernie is no longer a servicable outfielder and is probably going to be moved to DH with Giambi playing 1B. I am sure that they would love to keep a young talent like Johnson around, but this leaves him without a position, and it will be much easier to move Johnson and his minimum contract instead of Bernie and his 12+M/yr or Giambi and his 11+M/yr. The point is that they are moving Johnson because they have no room at 1B/DH so they would have absolutely no interest in Konerko, else I am sure that they would much rather keep Johnson who is younger, cheap, and better. So Maggs and Konerko for Soriano and Johnson isn't a realistic option, although I would love to see that trade. The only way that the Sox get BOTH Soriano and Johnson is if they offer a top of the rotation starter, or a dominating closer, or a very good 2B/CF WITH Maggs. The current rumor has Johnson AND Soriano going to Montreal for Vidro and Vazquez. This should help illustrate what it would take to get BOTH Soriano and Johnson. I would love to see Soriano and Johnson in a Sox uniform because of their youth, potential, early sucess, and cheap salary, but it depends on the cost via trade. Giving up Maggs is asking a lot, but the thought of giving up Maggs AND Buehrle(probably what the Yankees would want) for Soriano and Johnson is too much. I would still love to see the Sox get rid of Konerko and a trade idea that might work is shipping him to Seattle for Guillen. Seattle needs offense and with Martinez likely to retire and Olerod getting older and seeing a decrease in his numbers I think they would have an interest in Konerko. They also have SOME financial flexibility and might be able to take on ALL of Konerko's 8M with the Sox taking about 3M for Guillen. This would rid the Sox of Konerko's contract while giving the Sox a solid realitively cheap SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Maybe get a 3rd team involved or like I said, wash the Yanks hands of Jeff Weaver and then try to add Koch into the deal as the Yanks may be willing to chance on him being a setupman to Rivera. They have always seemed willing to chance on high priced relievers in the past that are coming off some troublesome seasons (Look at what they paid Hithcock of all people). Weaver and Konerko's contracts wash. If the Yanks get Maggs, then couldn't they move Matsui to CF and let Bernie play LF with Maggs in rf. Or are they not considering that? I mean there aren't any top flight centerfielders out there unless they are going after someone like Mike Cameron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 From the Yankees standpoint, the move that makes the most sense is either keeping Soriano or trading him for Carlos Beltran straight up. Any other move in my opinion would be a bad one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 From the Yankees standpoint, the move that makes the most sense is either keeping Soriano or trading him for Carlos Beltran straight up. Any other move in my opinion would be a bad one. If I were the Royals I'd do it, cause there is no chance they will sign beltran. I also think Beltran is kind of over-rated and if I were George I'd be scared by his demands. Just cause he is a good player looking for superstar money and he isn't yet a superstar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 61382, if the Mariners would do that Konerko deal, I'd do it in a heartbeat. If I could find a team willing to take on his or Koch's salary, I'd call that a winner and whatever they got in return would be an added bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 From the Yankees standpoint, the move that makes the most sense is either keeping Soriano or trading him for Carlos Beltran straight up. Any other move in my opinion would be a bad one. If I were the Royals I'd do it, cause there is no chance they will sign beltran. I also think Beltran is kind of over-rated and if I were George I'd be scared by his demands. Just cause he is a good player looking for superstar money and he isn't yet a superstar. I beg to differ, his numbers the past two years were stellar and he's a great centerfielder. He's still young and will only get better. And I'd definitely like him out of the division so the Sox wouldn't have to worry about him anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Maybe get a 3rd team involved or like I said, wash the Yanks hands of Jeff Weaver and then try to add Koch into the deal as the Yanks may be willing to chance on him being a setupman to Rivera. They have always seemed willing to chance on high priced relievers in the past that are coming off some troublesome seasons (Look at what they paid Hithcock of all people). Weaver and Konerko's contracts wash. If the Yanks get Maggs, then couldn't they move Matsui to CF and let Bernie play LF with Maggs in rf. Or are they not considering that? I mean there aren't any top flight centerfielders out there unless they are going after someone like Mike Cameron. I think they could live with an outfield of Bernie LF, Matsui CF, and Maggs RF, but that is a below average defensive outfield. All rumors have Bernie moving to DH, but I don't see why it is out of the realm of possibility that Bernie can play LF. Another rumor floating around is Soriano for Beltran, which would be a great trade for the Yankees IMO(although I am a huge Beltran fan). Beltran might be the closest thing to a TRUE 5 tool player in the majors. The most impressive stat is his career 88+% SB sucess rate add that to GG calibur D in CF, 60+ extra bases a year, a solid BA, and improving plate disipline and you have yourselves one of the most complete players in the game. Bringing a 3rd team into the mix is certainly a possibility, however, not many teams are breaking down the door trying to acquire Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 From the Yankees standpoint, the move that makes the most sense is either keeping Soriano or trading him for Carlos Beltran straight up. Any other move in my opinion would be a bad one. If I were the Royals I'd do it, cause there is no chance they will sign beltran. I also think Beltran is kind of over-rated and if I were George I'd be scared by his demands. Just cause he is a good player looking for superstar money and he isn't yet a superstar. I beg to differ, his numbers the past two years were stellar and he's a great centerfielder. He's still young and will only get better. And I'd definitely like him out of the division so the Sox wouldn't have to worry about him anymore. 15 or 16 mill a year stellar? He's always been said to have an attitude and I've yet to see him put up MVP numbers. He's always talked about like an MVP and I just feel he is overhyped compared to his numbers, although their is more to a player then numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 From the Yankees standpoint, the move that makes the most sense is either keeping Soriano or trading him for Carlos Beltran straight up. Any other move in my opinion would be a bad one. If I were the Royals I'd do it, cause there is no chance they will sign beltran. I also think Beltran is kind of over-rated and if I were George I'd be scared by his demands. Just cause he is a good player looking for superstar money and he isn't yet a superstar. I beg to differ, his numbers the past two years were stellar and he's a great centerfielder. He's still young and will only get better. And I'd definitely like him out of the division so the Sox wouldn't have to worry about him anymore. 15 or 16 mill a year stellar? He's always been said to have an attitude and I've yet to see him put up MVP numbers. He's always talked about like an MVP and I just feel he is overhyped compared to his numbers, although their is more to a player then numbers. No, but if he was traded to the Yankees, played there for a season and was successful and liked NY, he'd take 10 mil a season from the Yanks because they're going to be a winning team every season. Bottom line is no one is going to give him 15 or 16 mil a season anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 From the Yankees standpoint, the move that makes the most sense is either keeping Soriano or trading him for Carlos Beltran straight up. Any other move in my opinion would be a bad one. If I were the Royals I'd do it, cause there is no chance they will sign beltran. I also think Beltran is kind of over-rated and if I were George I'd be scared by his demands. Just cause he is a good player looking for superstar money and he isn't yet a superstar. I beg to differ, his numbers the past two years were stellar and he's a great centerfielder. He's still young and will only get better. And I'd definitely like him out of the division so the Sox wouldn't have to worry about him anymore. 15 or 16 mill a year stellar? He's always been said to have an attitude and I've yet to see him put up MVP numbers. He's always talked about like an MVP and I just feel he is overhyped compared to his numbers, although their is more to a player then numbers. No, but if he was traded to the Yankees, played there for a season and was successful and liked NY, he'd take 10 mil a season from the Yanks because they're going to be a winning team every season. Bottom line is no one is going to give him 15 or 16 mil a season anywhere. Come on abo, you know Boras doesn't ever give anyteam a home town discount, especially the Yanks. 10 bucks says Boras is the one feeding this rumor cause he knows he could get the Boss to shell out 15 or 16 mill a year over 8 or 9 years to Beltran. Did you happen to catch Boras' comments in regards to Pudge playing for less if he stayed in Florida? He said something like no player should take a home town discount or anything like that. He's gonna get good money on the open market and thats where he'll go. If the Marlins make a great offer, then he'll stick around. Thats not the identical quote, but it was something like that. For a long time I've stuck up for Boras, but I thought that was plain dumb. I always thought Boras had his clients best interests at heart, but that comment rubbed me the wrong way as it seemed he was more all about himself then Pudge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Heres a name I haven't heard anyone mention, although its a long shot and I personally HATE the guy: Ichiro Suzuki. He is a Fa, and only made $3 mill this year. If we were able to move Maggs for the betterment of the team, you could get that guy as a replacement for half the salary of Ordonez, and still give Ichiro a huge salary increase. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Chisoxfn, I generally agree with, but you are missing the point on this topic. Maggs and Konerko for Soriano and Johnson is NOT a realistic option. The only reason why the Yankees are shopping Johnson is because Bernie is no longer a servicable outfielder and is probably going to be moved to DH with Giambi playing 1B. I am sure that they would love to keep a young talent like Johnson around, but this leaves him without a position, and it will be much easier to move Johnson and his minimum contract instead of Bernie and his 12+M/yr or Giambi and his 11+M/yr. The point is that they are moving Johnson because they have no room at 1B/DH so they would have absolutely no interest in Konerko, else I am sure that they would much rather keep Johnson who is younger, cheap, and better. So Maggs and Konerko for Soriano and Johnson isn't a realistic option, although I would love to see that trade. The only way that the Sox get BOTH Soriano and Johnson is if they offer a top of the rotation starter, or a dominating closer, or a very good 2B/CF WITH Maggs. The current rumor has Johnson AND Soriano going to Montreal for Vidro and Vazquez. This should help illustrate what it would take to get BOTH Soriano and Johnson. I would love to see Soriano and Johnson in a Sox uniform because of their youth, potential, early sucess, and cheap salary, but it depends on the cost via trade. Giving up Maggs is asking a lot, but the thought of giving up Maggs AND Buehrle(probably what the Yankees would want) for Soriano and Johnson is too much. I would still love to see the Sox get rid of Konerko and a trade idea that might work is shipping him to Seattle for Guillen. Seattle needs offense and with Martinez likely to retire and Olerod getting older and seeing a decrease in his numbers I think they would have an interest in Konerko. They also have SOME financial flexibility and might be able to take on ALL of Konerko's 8M with the Sox taking about 3M for Guillen. This would rid the Sox of Konerko's contract while giving the Sox a solid realitively cheap SS. Agreed. A Konerko-Maggs for Soriano-Johnson deal would never happen. We'd have to throw in someone like Cotts instead of Paulie. Quite frankly, no one is looking for a slow, fast-fading, big salary guy like Konerko, let alone giving up a stud like Soriano. The Yanks will hold on to Johnson and he'll become their future first baseman. They would just laugh at that trade, what they need is young pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 They would just laugh at that trade, what they need is young pitching. If that's the case, they are complete morons for dealing Brandon Claussen for Aaron Boone. In fact, a Yankee fan I know says that is one trade they are seriously going to regret. Guess that will all depend on how Claussen pans out. And I could be a witness to his development next year, as he should start the season at AAA Louisville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 If that's the case, they are complete morons for dealing Brandon Claussen for Aaron Boone. In fact, a Yankee fan I know says that is one trade they are seriously going to regret. Guess that will all depend on how Claussen pans out. And I could be a witness to his development next year, as he should start the season at AAA Louisville. When it comes to the Yanks, you have to throw sense out the window. If the Boss has his eyes on a stud RF and is convinced they should move Soriano and Johnson then that is what is going to happen. Will it solve the Yanks, HECK NO, but half of the stuff they do is absolutely ridiculous. All I'm saying is if Soriano for Beltran is a possibility then I see no reason why Soriano for Maggs wouldn't be a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 If that's the case, they are complete morons for dealing Brandon Claussen for Aaron Boone. In fact, a Yankee fan I know says that is one trade they are seriously going to regret. Guess that will all depend on how Claussen pans out. And I could be a witness to his development next year, as he should start the season at AAA Louisville. When it comes to the Yanks, you have to throw sense out the window. If the Boss has his eyes on a stud RF and is convinced they should move Soriano and Johnson then that is what is going to happen. Will it solve the Yanks, HECK NO, but half of the stuff they do is absolutely ridiculous. All I'm saying is if Soriano for Beltran is a possibility then I see no reason why Soriano for Maggs wouldn't be a possibility. Soriano for Maggs is a distinct possibility. But adding Konerko for Johnson in there, well, I just don't see that happening at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Yeah I'd take Nick Johnson in a second... I prefer Brad Fullmer. He is FA and will come cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I prefer Brad Fullmer. He is FA and will come cheap. Brad Fullmer is average, at best. Nick Johnson has a chance to be VERY good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Brad Fullmer is average, at best. Nick Johnson has a chance to be VERY good. But to get Nick Johnson we have to give someone (prospects)...Brad would just sign for 1-3 millions a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 But to get Nick Johnson we have to give someone (prospects)...Brad would just sign for 1-3 millions a year. I know that. But Nick Johnson is worth giving up something for. Fullmer will always be, well, Fullmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Maggs/Prospect for Johnson and Soriano. Let's try it. Georgie Porgie is just desperate enough to overpay. Let's stick it up his ass while he's still stinging after the World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I know that. But Nick Johnson is worth giving up something for. Fullmer will always be, well, Fullmer. How about this: Magglio, Konerko, Rauch for Johnson/Soriano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Hmmm, Jason, I would rather do the Maggs for Soriano alone. Now of course that means we have an opening in RF. With Lee in LF, that leaves AaRow and a FA for the other 2 OF positions. Does that mean Reed will get a shot? I dunno, but our OF power would go from a strength to a weakness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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