Who are the 4 bench players for the Sox?

[pcq]

Sheets has not really improved with experience but leaving the OF will help. Hanser and Haseley both hit over their heads this spring. Word to the wise. Maybe Haseley will improve? 

[zisk]

5 hours ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Yeah but you’re talking about a bench player. The question is how he would produce versus other options the Sox have for the bench. It’s a pretty safe bet there is no other option that can provide similar production against *RHP* available among the utility player candidates.

*edit

Jake burger had a .724 against righties and an .892 against lefties last year. He has had 800 at bats in 

his career, minors and majors. Sheets has had 2100 at bats. who would you bet on improving this year?

[ChiSox59]

9 minutes ago, pcq said:

Sheets has not really improved with experience but leaving the OF will help. Hanser and Haseley both hit over their heads this spring. Word to the wise. Maybe Haseley will improve? 

With regard to Haseley, Let’s see in the hitters haven in Charlotte first. He was pretty dreadful there last season. 

[VAfan]

Zavala, Alberto, Sheets.  Do we know who the 4th guy is yet?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

8 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Zavala, Alberto, Sheets.  Do we know who the 4th guy is yet?

 

Don’t see how it’s not Romy.

[SoxBlanco]

20 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Zavala, Alberto, Sheets.  Do we know who the 4th guy is yet?

 

 

[Quin]

So, I'm assuming Romy, but I wonder who the emergency catcher is?

[Bob Sacamano]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

So, I'm assuming Romy, but I wonder who the emergency catcher is?

Probably Romy but also probably not that big of a thing to worry about.

[Dick Allen]

5 hours ago, Quin said:

So, I'm assuming Romy, but I wonder who the emergency catcher is?

It has to be TA7.

[Chicago White Sox]

18 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’ve been expecting as much, so hopefully this is true:

 

So elaborating on this a bit, but the Braves had two players play 162 games last year (Swanson & Olsen) and one play 159 (Riley).  Harris played pretty much every single day once he was called up and Acuna played most days once his season actually started (he did receive more rest than others which makes sense).  Point is their stars started almost every single game if they were healthy.

I’m not convinced that Grifol will go that extreme, but I truly believe he shoots for ~150 starts for our legit stars and the guys where there isn’t some obvious platoon advantage to take advantage of.  Guys like Anderson, Robert, Andrus, & Benintendi should be playing pretty much everyday.  I get that the former two haven’t been able to stay healthy over the course of a full season as of late, but giving them more than an extra off-day once every two weeks really isn’t going to change things.  Unless they are actually hurt, put them on the field.

Moncada, Eloy, & Vaughn fall into the next tier for me because of their history of nagging injuries.  To me, I think Grifol shoots for ~140 starts out of them.  For Moncada, proactively giving him ~22 off-days against LHP throughout the season makes some sense with a guy like Alberto on the roster.  Similar logic applies to Eloy & Vaughn against tough RHP with Sheets on the roster.

That only leaves Colas of the non-catching starters.  And with him, it’s really hard to say how they treat him against LHP.  My guess is they won’t do a strict platoon in the long-run, but they may slowly introduce him to major league lefties to start the season.  Gun to head, I’m guessing he will also get ~22 days off against LHP this year, which would put him around 140 starts if healthy.

As outlined above, this is very different from how Tony managed things.  Yes, this hasn’t been the most healthy crew as of late, but Abreu was the only guy who was out there pretty much everyday.  I’m super happy this will change significantly under Grifol as not utilizing your best players as much as possible is an incredibly stupid way of managing a team.  Put them out there unless their bodies clearly say no, which will obviously quite a bit with this group, but zero reason to baby them.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So elaborating on this a bit, but the Braves had two players play 162 games last year (Swanson & Olsen) and one play 159 (Riley).  Harris played pretty much every single day once he was called up and Acuna played most days once his season actually started (he did receive more rest than others which makes sense).  Point is their stars started almost every single game if they were healthy.

I’m not convinced that Grifol will go that extreme, but I truly believe he shoots for ~150 starts for our legit stars and the guys where there isn’t some obvious platoon advantage to take advantage of.  Guys like Anderson, Robert, Andrus, & Benintendi should be playing pretty much everyday.  I get that the former two haven’t been able to stay healthy over the course of a full season as of late, but giving them more than an extra off-day once every two weeks really isn’t going to change things.  Unless they are actually hurt, put them on the field.

Moncada, Eloy, & Vaughn fall into the next tier for me because of their history of nagging injuries.  To me, I think Grifol shoots for ~140 starts out of them.  For Moncada, proactively giving him ~22 off-days against LHP throughout the season makes some sense with a guy like Alberto on the roster.  Similar logic applies to Eloy & Vaughn against tough RHP with Sheets on the roster.

That only leaves Colas of the non-catching starters.  And with him, it’s really hard to say how they treat him against LHP.  My guess is they won’t do a strict platoon in the long-run, but they may slowly introduce him to major league lefties to start the season.  Gun to head, I’m guessing he will also get ~22 days off against LHP this year, which would put him around 140 starts if healthy.

As outlined above, this is very different from how Tony managed things.  Yes, this hasn’t been the most healthy crew as of late, but Abreu was the only guy who was out there pretty much everyday.  I’m super happy this will change significantly under Grifol as not utilizing your best players as much as possible is an incredibly stupid way of managing a team.  Put them out there unless their bodies clearly say no, which will obviously quite a bit with this group, but zero reason to baby them.

He can definitely shoot for as many games as possible but with the guys we have, durability will definitely come into play.

[Greg Hibbard]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So elaborating on this a bit, but the Braves had two players play 162 games last year (Swanson & Olsen) and one play 159 (Riley).  Harris played pretty much every single day once he was called up and Acuna played most days once his season actually started (he did receive more rest than others which makes sense).  Point is their stars started almost every single game if they were healthy.

I’m not convinced that Grifol will go that extreme, but I truly believe he shoots for ~150 starts for our legit stars and the guys where there isn’t some obvious platoon advantage to take advantage of.  Guys like Anderson, Robert, Andrus, & Benintendi should be playing pretty much everyday.  I get that the former two haven’t been able to stay healthy over the course of a full season as of late, but giving them more than an extra off-day once every two weeks really isn’t going to change things.  Unless they are actually hurt, put them on the field.

Moncada, Eloy, & Vaughn fall into the next tier for me because of their history of nagging injuries.  To me, I think Grifol shoots for ~140 starts out of them.  For Moncada, proactively giving him ~22 off-days against LHP throughout the season makes some sense with a guy like Alberto on the roster.  Similar logic applies to Eloy & Vaughn against tough RHP with Sheets on the roster.

That only leaves Colas of the non-catching starters.  And with him, it’s really hard to say how they treat him against LHP.  My guess is they won’t do a strict platoon in the long-run, but they may slowly introduce him to major league lefties to start the season.  Gun to head, I’m guessing he will also get ~22 days off against LHP this year, which would put him around 140 starts if healthy.

As outlined above, this is very different from how Tony managed things.  Yes, this hasn’t been the most healthy crew as of late, but Abreu was the only guy who was out there pretty much everyday.  I’m super happy this will change significantly under Grifol as not utilizing your best players as much as possible is an incredibly stupid way of managing a team.  Put them out there unless their bodies clearly say no, which will obviously quite a bit with this group, but zero reason to baby them.

100% agree with this, and will add that Tony’s capriciousness of playing Abreu every day, even while he was dinged up, while other players like Vaughn “needed days off” arbitrarily or Leury “had to be in the mix” was fn maddening. 

[Chicago White Sox]

And building off the above, here’s what that means in an optimal state for the bench:

• Sheets: 44 starts at 1B / DH against RHP
• Alberto: 22 starts against LHP at 3B; 24 starts at 2B (handedness mix TBD)
• Romy: 22 starts against LHP in RF; 12 starts in LF against LHP

The biggest gap from a platoon standpoint is at 2B, which is a bit unfortunate but a reflection of having a four man bench.  Otherwise, I think this arrangement works well in an optimal state.  And having Sheets & Alberto gives you a quality pinch hitter from both sides of the plate while Romy provides the flexibility to replace said pinch hitter pretty much regardless of position.  There is a logic to this all unlike last year where it was “play Leury regardless of the situation”.

And to be clear, there will obviously be injuries and these guys will be asked to play a lot more than they should.  For example, the OF situation could get real messy with even a single significant injury.  Having to play Sheets or Eloy in a corner on a regular basis is terrifying and being forced to play Colas in CF on a regular basis would not be ideal in the event of a Robert injury.  That remains the biggest weakness with the bench construction as having a legit 4th OF who can play on a regular basis if needed would have been optimal.

[Chicago White Sox]

16 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

He can definitely shoot for as many games as possible but with the guys we have, durability will definitely come into play.

No doubt, but guys can’t play 140 or 150 games if the manager constantly rotates the bench into the lineup regardless of matchups.  This is baseball, most guys don’t need a ton of days off beyond what’s already in the schedule.  If their bodies break down so be it, but put them out there until that actually happens unless there is a matchup benefit to exploit.  Bench guys are bench guys because they are typically flawed / imperfect players.  No need to overplay in the sake of keeping them “fresh”.  That logic has driven me nuts for years and I’m so glad it appears it will be changing.

[ChiSoxTrojan]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The biggest gap from a platoon standpoint is at 2B, which is a bit unfortunate but a reflection of having a four man bench.

That would be the case even if they had a 20-man bench. They don't have a legitimate option at middle infield who is left-handed until Montgomery is ready.

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And to be clear, there will obviously be injuries and these guys will be asked to play a lot more than they should.  For example, the OF situation could get real messy with even a single significant injury.  Having to play Sheets or Eloy in a corner on a regular basis is terrifying and being forced to play Colas in CF on a regular basis would not be ideal in the event of a Robert injury.  That remains the biggest weakness with the bench construction as having a legit 4th OF who can play on a regular basis if needed would have been optimal.

They don't need a "legit 4th OF who can play on a regular basis if needed" on the 26-man. If one of the starting OFs is actually hurt, he'll go on the IL and Haseley or Marisnick will be immediately called up.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

That would be the case even if they had a 20-man bench. They don't have a legitimate option at middle infield who is left-handed until Montgomery is ready.

They don't need a "legit 4th OF who can play on a regular basis if needed" on the 26-man. If one of the starting OFs is actually hurt, he'll go on the IL and Haseley or Marisnick will be immediately called up.

Those guys are massive downgrades and not legit 4th OFs.  If we have to play either in CF for a 30 game stretch, we are in big trouble.  We should have signed someone like Adam Duvall, but tired of beating that dead horse.

[ChiSoxTrojan]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Those guys are massive downgrades and not legit 4th OFs.  If we have to play either in CF for a 30 game stretch, we are in big trouble.  We should have signed someone like Adam Duvall, but tired of beating that dead horse.

Oh I completely agree, I would have loved a Duvall signing. I thought you were suggesting the Sox needed someone like Haseley, Marisnick, or Hamilton on the 26-man roster.

Haseley is obviously a massive downgrade in the OF from the starters, but we've seen worse over the past couple years. There was a stretch in 2021 that Jake Lamb and Danny Mendick were getting regular OF reps, and then of course there's the Vaughn/Sheets situation. And Leury.

[Eminor3rd]

22 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think in a bench role he’s fine.  This team ranked 23rd in baseball last year in wRC+ against RHP.  Hopefully Colas Benintendi & Colas help, but it can’t hurt to have a LH bat who can fill in at 1B / DH occasionally and PH if needed late in a game.  I’m a bit of an optimist when it comes to Gavin, but I think he might be able to get you close to a 120 wRC+ against righties.  That’s plenty valuable for a role player.  I just don’t want see him get a ton of ton of time in the OF.

I also don’t know of many guys he is blocking for bench spots.  A quality 4th OF who bats from the right side like Adam Duvall would have been great, but we don’t really have anyone like that he’d blocking.  Burger is a very similar player but with an even narrower skillet.  Sounds Grifol is looking for specialists rather than well-rounded but underwhelming players who will be overplayed.  If that’s the case, then Gavin should be on the roster.

I just don’t want him playing the outfield, I guess, and maybe (probably) I’m buying too much into Haseley’s swing change but I feel like both him and Marisnick are fine as actual bench outfielders and Sheets can be stashed for when someone goes down. 

[BigHurt3515]

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Those guys are massive downgrades and not legit 4th OFs.  If we have to play either in CF for a 30 game stretch, we are in big trouble.  We should have signed someone like Adam Duvall, but tired of beating that dead horse.

Isn't Colas the back up CF technically? 

[Eminor3rd]

22 hours ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

The only player in the organization with a better career wRC+ against RHP is Eloy.

Right but Eloy is the one blocking his ABs. Unless you want to relegate Vaughn to a weak-side platoon, Sheets has to play over actual OF Colas (also a lefty) or pinch hit to get playing time, and I just think he should never be on the outfield grass. I’m excited about him as an injury fill-in at 1B/DH, but until that need arises, why not put him in Charlotte, you know?

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Eminor3rd said:

I just don’t want him playing the outfield, I guess, and maybe (probably) I’m buying too much into Haseley’s swing change but I feel like both him and Marisnick are fine as actual bench outfielders and Sheets can be stashed for when someone goes down. 

I don’t want him playing the OF either, but I think there is a path to quite a bit of playing time at 1B / DH.  As for Haseley, if the swing change works out then that might change things, but otherwise he doesn’t complement this roster all that well at the moment.  Let him prove himself in AAA first.  I’m not a huge fan of Marisnick and would rather rely on Romy to fill that role on the roster in all honesty.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

4 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

Isn't Colas the back up CF technically? 

Yeah, I would say that is a safe bet.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

Isn't Colas the back up CF technically? 

Sure, but then you’re trotting out Sheets or Eloy in RF everyday.  Neither set of options is ideal IMO.

[Bob Sacamano]

Romy looked pretty good in CF going back on a ball (I think there was a video and a Tweet that mentioned he looks like a natural wherever you play him).

[Tnetennba]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sure, but then you’re trotting out Sheets or Eloy in RF everyday.  Neither set of options is ideal IMO.

Hoping Grifol's love of Alberto doesn't haunt them in the 4th OF department.  Not that the options Hahn brought in were great, but dear lord are they one injury away from starting guys out of position or a massive black hole in the lineup.