Who are the 4 bench players for the Sox?

[TheFutureIsNear]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

While I actually agree with you on this assuming Colas is on the roster, its a hilarious take for a guy saying Burger is a no brainer on the roster.  Sheets can actually stand in RF (a position of need) and hits RHP pretty well as lefty bat (a huge team need).  Burger does neither.  

IMO, this team will be at its best when both Sheets and Burger are in AAA however.  THat is only happening when the team is at 100% full strength, which I doubt we see much. 

I know it’s blasphemes to say, but if Colas is on the team I’d rather see Eloy in RF in short spurts than Sheets. I don’t think having a pulse in RF should give Sheets any value to the team. Sheets’ value is going to be purely pinch hit situations off the bench and I think Burger is making a good case to be the better option in that role.
 

I also think we are flexible enough with the rest of our D that the only real position to worry about covering for is CF behind Robert. Which is why I think it will be more important to carry Marisnick or Hamilton on the roster over Sheets. If Robert goes down again I’d rather not see our outfield D revert back to bad with 1 of Colas/10D in CF and Eloy/Sheets in a corner. And Alberto/Romy can cover the IF backup with Elvis sliding to SS if TA does down. 

[GreenSox]

None of Hamilton, Alberto, Leury or Marisnick can hit.  That has been established over long careers and large sample sizes with career OPS' below .700 (and in most cases, well below).  Alberto has been pretty good against left-handed pitchers, so perhaps that's enough for him to make the cut.  Otherwise, these are defensive replacements, utility infielders and and 5th OF types.   Romy hasn't hit yet, but it's a small sample size, so perhaps he will. But how many of these types of players do we need?  
An our starting 2B, who can play multiple positions,  has struggled with the bat most of his career as well (I hope he repeats what he did in Chicago last year, but it's tough to count on that).
 

Burger and Sheets will each be 27 this season; they aren't prospects anymore.  They don't need nurturing.    Use them as needed; perhaps that's in AAA to start, but with 4 spots open and with the other candidates being unable to hit, and with starters needing regular rest, there should be room for one of them, if not both.

Edited March 6, 2023 by GreenSox

[ChiSoxTrojan]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

I don't envision a lot of lineups if this roster is health in which this team is playing multiple bench players in one game resulting in "alot of lineups with .600-type OPS hitters stacked".  If the lineup isn't healthy, Sheets and Burger will be on the rsoter.  So its kind of a moot point.  I don't expect Leury and Marisnick/Billy to be garnering multiple starts a week.  

We've been over this like a dozen times, but if Colas is on the roster and everyone else is healthy, there is virtually no at bats for Sheets. 

The Sox are going to live and die in 2023 by their core of Robert, TA, Eloy, Yoan, AV, and Benintendi being in the lineup most days.  

You do realize that most major league "starters" don't play 162 games, right? Even if technically healthy (as in not on the IL)?

That's especially true for rookies (Colas), and guys with a history of nagging injuries (which includes everyone you listed as part of your "core"). I would expect Colas will be playing no more than 4 days/week to start out, and everyone else you mentioned will probably get a day off/week. That's pretty standard roster maintenance over a 162-game season.

[flavum]

3 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

You do realize that most major league "starters" don't play 162 games, right? Even if technically healthy (as in not on the IL)?

That's especially true for rookies (Colas), and guys with a history of nagging injuries (which includes everyone you listed as part of your "core"). I would expect Colas will be playing no more than 4 days/week to start out, and everyone else you mentioned will probably get a day off/week. That's pretty standard roster maintenance over a 162-game season.

Any of the core guys mentioned that stay off the IL all season should certainly start 150 games. Colas will be a see how it goes guy. Andrus should start 135.

[Tnetennba]

Burger has all of 252 plate appearances in the bigs.  The sample size is far too small to call him the best bench anything.  He could be their best bench bat, but that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement when Sheets, Leury, Seby, and or Billy Hamilton are your bench mates.  Burger and Sheets would be quite redundant on the same bench, and as much as I’m over the Gavin Sheets experience, his lefty stick at least plays vs RHP, which they face far more often.  Neither provide adequate defense at their natural positions and neither have any real versatility.  It’s one or the other and I’d rather choose neither. 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Burger has all of 252 plate appearances in the bigs.  The sample size is far too small to call him the best bench anything.  He could be their best bench bat, but that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement when Sheets, Leury, Seby, and or Billy Hamilton are your bench mates.  Burger and Sheets would be quite redundant on the same bench, and as much as I’m over the Gavin Sheets experience, his lefty stick at least plays vs RHP, which they face far more often.  Neither provide adequate defense at their natural positions and neither have any real versatility.  It’s one or the other and I’d rather choose neither. 

The at bats for Sheets and Burger will open up eventually during the season due to injuries. They each have an option. Use it for depth. They don’t need to be on the bench only to play once a week.

[Tnetennba]

5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

The at bats for Sheets and Burger will open up eventually during the season due to injuries. They each have an option. Use it for depth. They don’t need to be on the bench only to play once a week.

Exactly.  They are bench bat depth with an option left, which if used as such gives them some value to the team.  AAAA guys like them are a dime a dozen, the type of that get exposed when played too much.  Penciling them in as anything more is foolhardy except when injuries occur.  

[caulfield12]

Burger still could use more at-bats in the minors...if nothing else to slightly boost his trade value.

Long-term...with no Moncada return to at least a 775-800 hitter and he's/Burger the 2025 starter at 3B regardless of his defense.. 

[ChiSoxTrojan]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Burger still could use more at-bats in the minors...if nothing else to slightly boost his trade value.

Long-term...with no Moncada return to at least a 775-800 hitter and he's/Burger the 2025 starter at 3B regardless of his defense.. 

Burger only has one option left, I highly doubt he sticks on this roster all the way to 2025. There will also be plenty of other options for the starting 3B spot - Ramos, Sosa, and Montgomery should all be MLB players by then.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

Burger only has one option left, I highly doubt he sticks on this roster all the way to 2025. There will also be plenty of other options for the starting 3B spot - Ramos, Sosa, and Montgomery should all be MLB players by then.

Not sure who claims him.

50/50, like all the handwringing last year over Micker Adolfo.

He's now Matt Davidson.

Edited March 7, 2023 by caulfield12

[chitownsportsfan]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

Exactly.  They are bench bat depth with an option left, which if used as such gives them some value to the team.  AAAA guys like them are a dime a dozen, the type of that get exposed when played too much.  Penciling them in as anything more is foolhardy except when injuries occur.  

These guys are gonna play, we've got too many injury prone guys not to pencil in Moncada for 30 missed games, eloy at least that many, tim around the same and so on and on and on.

So whoever makes it after camp breaks might not even really matter at times during the season. Might be better to let Jake get regular AB in AAA until the inevitable Moncada DL stint.

Who knows, honestly the bottom of the roster looks like absolute dog s%*# to me but I'm willing to give it a shot on whatever we come out of spring with. Hope springs eternal.

[fathom]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

These guys are gonna play, we've got too many injury prone guys not to pencil in Moncada for 30 missed games, eloy at least that many, tim around the same and so on and on and on.

So whoever makes it after camp breaks might not even really matter at times during the season. Might be better to let Jake get regular AB in AAA until the inevitable Moncada DL stint.

Who knows, honestly the bottom of the roster looks like absolute dog s%*# to me but I'm willing to give it a shot on whatever we come out of spring with. Hope springs eternal.

The 4th outfield spot is terrible 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

The 4th outfield spot is terrible 

Engel 2022 terrible, though?

 

Haven't heard Cespedes' name mentioned for that, with LOTS of valid reasons behind that particular omission.

[Chicago White Sox]

So the more I think about this, the more I expect the Sox to go with a bench of Sheets, Alberto, & Romy.  

The Sox need a left-handed bat somewhere on the bench and that role pretty much goes to Gavin by default.  He can fill in at 1B/DH against tough righties when Vaughn/Eloy need a day off and can technically play a bad corner OF in a pinch (the Sox will use him much more then I would out there though).

As for Alberto, I’m not quite sure I get the admiration around here, but it seems like all but a certainty that Grifol will place him on the OD roster.  Personally, I think spring training stats are meaningless, so a nice camp doesn’t change the fact that he has been legit bad against RHP in his career.  That being said, he does hit lefties fairly well and can play throughout the infield.  As much as I’d love Burger’s bat on the bench, Alberto fills a similar need offensively with far more defensive versatility.

As for the final spot, this could obviously go a lot of different ways and Leury in theory should be the favorite.  However, it does seem like Hahn / Grifol may be ready to move on from Leury.  If so, I think you’re looking at one of the pure OFs or a true utility guy like Romy.  IMO, I think the Sox would prefer the latter and don’t think they will overreact to a strong camp and go with someone like Haseley.  Yes, Romy has had a rough spring, but the defensive versatility is a huge plus and I think he will at least hit LHP well next year.  And the latter is a big plus when you have two LH corner OFs who will need time off like everyone else.

[Bob Sacamano]

37 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So the more I think about this, the more I expect the Sox to go with a bench of Sheets, Alberto, & Romy.  

The Sox need a left-handed bat somewhere on the bench and that role pretty much goes to Gavin by default.  He can fill in at 1B/DH against tough righties when Vaughn/Eloy need a day off and can technically play a bad corner OF in a pinch (the Sox will use him much more then I would out there though).

As for Alberto, I’m not quite sure I get the admiration around here, but it seems like all but a certainty that Grifol will place him on the OD roster.  Personally, I think spring training stats are meaningless, so a nice camp doesn’t change the fact that he has been legit bad against RHP in his career.  That being said, he does hit lefties fairly well and can play throughout the infield.  As much as I’d love Burger’s bat on the bench, Alberto fills a similar need offensively with far more defensive versatility.

As for the final spot, this could obviously go a lot of different ways and Leury in theory should be the favorite.  However, it does seem like Hahn / Grifol may be ready to move on from Leury.  If so, I think you’re looking at one of the pure OFs or a true utility guy like Romy.  IMO, I think the Sox would prefer the latter and don’t think they will overreact to a strong camp and go with someone like Haseley.  Yes, Romy has had a rough spring, but the defensive versatility is a huge plus and I think he will at least hit LHP well next year.  And the latter is a big plus when you have two LH corner OFs who will need time off like everyone else.

It’s not really having admiration for Alberto, but more of Grifol seems to really like him. I agree that Spring Training stats are meaningless and not a predictor of how a guy will play that season. But when you’ve got guys competing for the final spots of the roster, there’s not a whole lot else to look at but stats.

[ChiSox59]

Seby, Sheets, Alberto and Leury is my guess. This will result in Eloy/Sheets playing way more OF than we’d all like. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by ChiSox59

[ChiSoxTrojan]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So the more I think about this, the more I expect the Sox to go with a bench of Sheets, Alberto, & Romy.  

The Sox need a left-handed bat somewhere on the bench and that role pretty much goes to Gavin by default.  He can fill in at 1B/DH against tough righties when Vaughn/Eloy need a day off and can technically play a bad corner OF in a pinch (the Sox will use him much more then I would out there though).

As for Alberto, I’m not quite sure I get the admiration around here, but it seems like all but a certainty that Grifol will place him on the OD roster.  Personally, I think spring training stats are meaningless, so a nice camp doesn’t change the fact that he has been legit bad against RHP in his career.  That being said, he does hit lefties fairly well and can play throughout the infield.  As much as I’d love Burger’s bat on the bench, Alberto fills a similar need offensively with far more defensive versatility.

As for the final spot, this could obviously go a lot of different ways and Leury in theory should be the favorite.  However, it does seem like Hahn / Grifol may be ready to move on from Leury.  If so, I think you’re looking at one of the pure OFs or a true utility guy like Romy.  IMO, I think the Sox would prefer the latter and don’t think they will overreact to a strong camp and go with someone like Haseley.  Yes, Romy has had a rough spring, but the defensive versatility is a huge plus and I think he will at least hit LHP well next year.  And the latter is a big plus when you have two LH corner OFs who will need time off like everyone else.

Can Romy back up CF? If not then the only guy who can do it is the starting RF (Colas) which isn't ideal. But I guess none of the options are ideal.

Romy seems to be coming around over the past week, but I would still rather give him a little bit of time in the minors to make sure he's on track. I'm still not convinced that he is a better hitter right now than Leury (particularly against RHP, which is going to be 70% of the opportunities).

[ChiSoxTrojan]

19 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Romy, Sheets, Alberto and Leury is my guess. This will result in Eloy/Sheets playing way more OF than we’d all like. 

Unless Leury is your backup C, that's one too many.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Romy, Sheets, Alberto and Leury is my guess. This will result in Eloy/Sheets playing way more OF than we’d all like. 

Need a backup C. Romy and Sheets have options though. 

[ChiSox59]

27 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Need a backup C. Romy and Sheets have options though. 

Yeah, meant Seby, said Romy.  I think Romy has earned a spot....in Charlotte.  

[Harry Chappas]

On 3/6/2023 at 8:26 PM, caulfield12 said:

Not sure who claims him.

50/50, like all the handwringing last year over Micker Adolfo.

He's now Matt Davidson.

If he could field like Davidson he would be a nice trade chip.  Better bat than Davidson 

[Harry Chappas]

I think Pedro is looking more at defense and will be why Sheets goes down. 

[ChiSoxTrojan]

16 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yeah, meant Seby, said Romy.  I think Romy has earned a spot....in Charlotte.  

In that case I agree with your projection of Leury/Sheets/Alberto. I've come to grips with the fact that Eloy will get a couple starts per week in the OF, at least until Colas gets comfortable.

[fathom]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Seby, Sheets, Alberto and Leury is my guess. This will result in Eloy/Sheets playing way more OF than we’d all like. 

Burger is a lock 

[ChiSox59]

11 minutes ago, fathom said:

Burger is a lock 

Hmmm, guessing you've heard that so won't debate it, but it that seems like an awful use of a roster spot imo.  His only utility on this roster is playing 3B like 1x a week to give Moncada a breather, and perhaps DH 1 other time a week against LHP putting Eloy in RF.  Seems like a stupid use of a roster spot, and frankly, Colas should be playing against LHP most of the time anyway.  

If Burger is on the roster, guess they're going to let Alberto decide if he wants to walk (assuming he has an opening day roster opt out).  There is really no scenario where both Burger and Alberto on the roster makes any sense at all.