Who are the 4 bench players for the Sox?

[ChiSoxTrojan]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Hmmm, guessing you've heard that so won't debate it, but it that seems like an awful use of a roster spot imo.  His only utility on this roster is playing 3B like 1x a week to give Moncada a breather, and perhaps DH 1 other time a week against LHP putting Eloy in RF.  Seems like a stupid use of a roster spot, and frankly, Colas should be playing against LHP most of the time anyway.  

If Burger is on the roster, guess they're going to let Alberto decide if he wants to walk (assuming he has an opening day roster opt out).  There is really no scenario where both Burger and Alberto on the roster makes any sense at all.  

I'm guessing he's saying that Burger would replace Sheets. I'm with you though on Sheets > Burger.

[Bob Sacamano]

17 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Hmmm, guessing you've heard that so won't debate it, but it that seems like an awful use of a roster spot imo.  His only utility on this roster is playing 3B like 1x a week to give Moncada a breather, and perhaps DH 1 other time a week against LHP putting Eloy in RF.  Seems like a stupid use of a roster spot, and frankly, Colas should be playing against LHP most of the time anyway.  

If Burger is on the roster, guess they're going to let Alberto decide if he wants to walk (assuming he has an opening day roster opt out).  There is really no scenario where both Burger and Alberto on the roster makes any sense at all.  

I feel like they can do anything with that spot and it feels like a waste honestly. None of the 4th OF NRIs played well enough to earn the spot (besides Haseley). A "real" 4th OF is something I thought would be a slam dunk for this roster. Now it's kind of Leury/Eloy getting time in the OF instead and then having an extra bench spot.

Edit: we'll see how it shakes out by OD but I still think they add a real OF (no info, just a feeling as guys get cut or opt out of minor league deals towards the end of camp).

Edited March 22, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[ChiSox59]

14 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

I'm guessing he's saying that Burger would replace Sheets. I'm with you though on Sheets > Burger.

So Seby and Burger and then two of Romy, Leury, Billy, Marisnick, Haseley I guess?  Burger over Sheets is a curious choice, and like I said Burger and Alberto are completely redundant so don't see them both on the roster.  

I am sure fathom isn't blowing smoke and has heard that, but sort of a I'll believe it when I see it thing on Burger.  He makes less sense on this roster than really any of the aforementioned guys, imho. 

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I feel like they can do anything with that spot and it feels like a waste honestly. None of the 4th OF NRIs played well enough to earn the spot (besides Haseley). A "real" 4th OF is something I thought would be a slam dunk for this roster. Now it's kind of Leury/Eloy getting time in the OF instead and then having an extra bench spot.

Edit: we'll see how it shakes out by OD but I still think they add a real OF (no info, just a feeling as guys get cut or opt out of minor league deals towards the end of camp).

Yeah, at the end of the day hopefully whoever it is doesn't play much.  We're debating the very back of the 26 man roster, but such is what you do as we're all anxious for the real games to start...

Definitely will be some guys available via waiver claims over the next week.  

[pcq]

My guess would be Sheets already has the spot from last year and they would prefer a LH. Maybe mgt wants to go another way though. They might be close to having enough lefties at this point. I have little interest in another DH candidate who is RH. I suppose Haseley could replace Sheets since Pedro likes Haseley.  Haseley was a #8 pick six years ago.

[Greg Hibbard]

Seby obviously. 

The case for no Leury:

If Eloy can play RF a bit, and if Colas can cover CF and LF as a back up, and Vaughn is your emergency LF and RF, are your five "outfielders" potentially 

LF Benintendi/Eloy/Colas/Vaughn

CF Robert/Colas/Benintendi in a pinch?

RF Colas/Eloy/Sheets/Vaughn

That gives you essentially full coverage on OF. No true util needed unless an IL stint happens and you call up one of the other guys. 

That means you can do on the IF

3B Moncada/Burger/Romy?

SS Anderson/Andrus/Romy

2B Andrus/Romy/Anderson?

1B Vaughn/Sheets/Grandal

So I think your four bench players are Romy, Burger, Sheets, Seby. 

Would that be a way to get both Burger and Sheets on the team? Because I want both on the team when their handedness gives us a PH advantage. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Hmmm, guessing you've heard that so won't debate it, but it that seems like an awful use of a roster spot imo.  His only utility on this roster is playing 3B like 1x a week to give Moncada a breather, and perhaps DH 1 other time a week against LHP putting Eloy in RF.  Seems like a stupid use of a roster spot, and frankly, Colas should be playing against LHP most of the time anyway.  

If Burger is on the roster, guess they're going to let Alberto decide if he wants to walk (assuming he has an opening day roster opt out).  There is really no scenario where both Burger and Alberto on the roster makes any sense at all.  

Agree…unless you plan on playing Eloy in RF against all LHPs and that seems insane to me.  But this is Rick Hahn we’re talking about so who knows.

[Bob Sacamano]

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Agree…unless you plan on playing Eloy in RF against all LHPs and that seems insane to me.  But this is Rick Hahn we’re talking about so who knows.

Only way I can get behind that is if they decide to bring both Burger and Sheets for a couple of weeks, meaning they want the extra year of Colas. Doesn’t seem likely though.

Not enough at bats for Sheets or Burger here and if you actually need them, it means someone is hurt anyway.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Bob Sacamano said:

Only way I can get behind that is if they decide to bring both Burger and Sheets for a couple of weeks, meaning they want the extra year of Colas. Doesn’t seem likely though.

Yah, that is about only way it makes sense. 

[ChiSoxTrojan]

12 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Seby obviously. 

The case for no Leury:

If Eloy can play RF a bit, and if Colas can cover CF and LF as a back up, and Vaughn is your emergency LF and RF, are your five "outfielders" potentially 

LF Benintendi/Eloy/Colas/Vaughn

CF Robert/Colas/Benintendi in a pinch?

RF Colas/Eloy/Sheets/Vaughn

That gives you essentially full coverage on OF. No true util needed unless an IL stint happens and you call up one of the other guys. 

That means you can do on the IF

3B Moncada/Burger/Romy?

SS Anderson/Andrus/Romy

2B Andrus/Romy/Anderson?

1B Vaughn/Sheets/Grandal

So I think your four bench players are Romy, Burger, Sheets, Seby. 

Would that be a way to get both Burger and Sheets on the team? Because I want both on the team when their handedness gives us a PH advantage. 

 

I guess technically this could work, but it's actually a lot thinner than you make it look because you're using the same starters all over in multiple places. Especially in CF - your backup CFers are your starting RF and starting LF? I mean yeah, Colas could technically slide over to CF (I don't think Benintendi is really an option there) but then you need someone to cover RF, and you have worse defense at two positions.

If the Sox want to keep both Burger and Sheets, they might be able to make it work if the last spot goes to Leury instead of Romy, unless Romy can play CF (he played there a couple years ago and was supposedly okay).

[Greg Hibbard]

1 minute ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

 

I guess technically this could work, but it's actually a lot thinner than you make it look because you're using the same starters all over in multiple places. Especially in CF - your backup CFers are your starting RF and starting LF? I mean yeah, Colas could technically slide over to CF (I don't think Benintendi is really an option there) but then you need someone to cover RF, and you have worse defense at two positions.

If the Sox want to keep both Burger and Sheets, they might be able to make it work if the last spot goes to Leury instead of Romy, unless Romy can play CF (he played there a couple years ago and was supposedly okay).

My scenario does work in the instance that Robert goes to IL and you call up Leury. Leury becomes true AAA depth that you just paid $5 million for the luxury to have, and if this organization wasn’t so cheap maybe they would consider this. 

[ChiSoxTrojan]

9 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

My scenario does work in the instance that Robert goes to IL and you call up Leury. Leury becomes true AAA depth that you just paid $5 million for the luxury to have, and if this organization wasn’t so cheap maybe they would consider this. 

Leury is on a major league contract and can't be sent to AAA. This is not an option.

[Greg Hibbard]

7 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

Leury is on a major league contract and can't be sent to AAA. This is not an option.

Damn. That's right. I don't know why I didn't think of that. Wishful thinking, I suppose...

Edited March 22, 2023 by Greg Hibbard

[pcq]

Maybe Leury can hang with Yo and just go on the IL for a couple years. No foul but no harm either.

[ChiSoxTrojan]

13 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Damn. That's right. I don't know why I didn't think of that. Wishful thinking, I suppose...

Well if Robert was to get hurt you would call up one of Haseley/Hamilton/Marisnick (assuming they don't have contract opt outs) to help in CF, but I'm pretty sure they would want to have someone on the roster who could play CF other than the starting corner OFs.

Sheets/Burger/Leury could work, but it would be the bare minimum of defensive coverage and would mean a lot of Leury, as he's the only backup-for 2B/SS/CF. 

[Greg Hibbard]

1 minute ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

Well if Robert was to get hurt you would call up one of Haseley/Hamilton/Marisnick (assuming they don't have contract opt outs) to help in CF, but I'm pretty sure they would want to have someone on the roster who could play CF other than the starting corner OFs.

Sheets/Burger/Leury could work, but it would be the bare minimum of defensive coverage and would mean a lot of Leury, as he's the only backup-for 2B/SS/CF. 

Unless Romy can play CF. 

[Chicago White Sox]

I’d wager large sums of money that Sheets makes the OD roster.  Our biggest weakness has been hitting RHP and they will want to use him to give Eloy & Vaughn breaks at times.  He’s also a viable pinch hitting option for Andrus & Seby late in games.  I don’t like the fact that they’ll use him in the OF way more than he should, but having a LH power bat on the bench is important and Haseley is not a real option despite a nice spring.

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

So Seby and Burger and then two of Romy, Leury, Billy, Marisnick, Haseley I guess?  Burger over Sheets is a curious choice, and like I said Burger and Alberto are completely redundant so don't see them both on the roster.  

I am sure fathom isn't blowing smoke and has heard that, but sort of a I'll believe it when I see it thing on Burger.  He makes less sense on this roster than really any of the aforementioned guys, imho. 

Yeah, at the end of the day hopefully whoever it is doesn't play much.  We're debating the very back of the 26 man roster, but such is what you do as we're all anxious for the real games to start...

Definitely will be some guys available via waiver claims over the next week.  

Shares of all the hand-wringing over Micker Adolfo a year ago...

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Unless Romy can play CF. 

Nope...

[VAfan]

5 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Seby obviously. 

The case for no Leury:

If Eloy can play RF a bit, and if Colas can cover CF and LF as a back up, and Vaughn is your emergency LF and RF, are your five "outfielders" potentially 

LF Benintendi/Eloy/Colas/Vaughn

CF Robert/Colas/Benintendi in a pinch?

RF Colas/Eloy/Sheets/Vaughn

That gives you essentially full coverage on OF. No true util needed unless an IL stint happens and you call up one of the other guys. 

That means you can do on the IF

3B Moncada/Burger/Romy?

SS Anderson/Andrus/Romy

2B Andrus/Romy/Anderson?

1B Vaughn/Sheets/Grandal

So I think your four bench players are Romy, Burger, Sheets, Seby. 

Would that be a way to get both Burger and Sheets on the team? Because I want both on the team when their handedness gives us a PH advantage. 

I was thinking this morning they need Burger Sheets and Seby because the guys often dinged up and unable to play are Eloy, Moncada, and Vaughn.  You need a bat to replace them, not a utility guy, and Burger and Sheets are the only viable bats, although Grandal if he's hitting can also DH and cover 1B.

[ChiSoxTrojan]

4 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Unless Romy can play CF. 

 

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Nope...

I think a lot of people are underestimating Romy’s ability to play the OF. From what I’ve seen and read, he’s perfectly fine in either corner spot (at least as good as Leury, likely better). CF I’m less confident in, because he hasn’t played there much (if at all) in the last couple years, but he did play a bit of CF in Kanny or Winston-Salem and from what I’ve read he didn’t look out of place there. He’s fast and athletic, so I wouldn’t put it past him to be able to play CF in a backup role.

What worries me more with Romy is his ability to hit RHP. That’s something he hasn’t shown the ability to do in his (short) major league stints or this Spring. Until he shows the ability to hit RHP at a Leury-like level (a low bar), I think Leury’s roster spot is safe.

[Greg Hibbard]

The other reason I favor Burger and Sheets is because the two players they would be pinch hitting for in high leverage situations are basically the opposite handedness to their respective handedness. Burger would spell Moncada late to cover a LHP, whereas Sheets would spell Vaughn against a tough RHP. And they would be entering the game defensively at positions they can cover. Yes you lose something at third, and Moncada is arguably a true switch hitter potentially. But Burger crushed LHP, Sheets crushes RHP. That’s gold. To me a high leverage PH AB with a favorable matchup is way more valuable than a replacement level player you can move around anywhere. I would rather DFA Leury and get a vet CF on a minor league deal who can give me just enough if Robert goes down for a stretch. 

[VAfan]

5 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

The other reason I favor Burger and Sheets is because the two players they would be pinch hitting for in high leverage situations are basically the opposite handedness to their respective handedness. Burger would spell Moncada late to cover a LHP, whereas Sheets would spell Vaughn against a tough RHP. And they would be entering the game defensively at positions they can cover. Yes you lose something at third, and Moncada is arguably a true switch hitter potentially. But Burger crushed LHP, Sheets crushes RHP. That’s gold. To me a high leverage PH AB with a favorable matchup is way more valuable than a replacement level player you can move around anywhere. I would rather DFA Leury and get a vet CF on a minor league deal who can give me just enough if Robert goes down for a stretch. 

Nice thought, but I doubt Grifol is pinch hitting for Moncada or Vaughn.  I think the more likely scenario is that Eloy, Moncada and Vaughn will get dinged up and need days off, but not long enough for a DL stint to bring up Burger from the minors. 

The problem is if Anderson or Andrus is hurt, we have no choice but to play Leury or a Alberto, and you can't really pinch hit for them because there's no defensive replacement.  (You could maybe play Burger at 2B for an inning or two.)

[ChiSox59]

10 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

The other reason I favor Burger and Sheets is because the two players they would be pinch hitting for in high leverage situations are basically the opposite handedness to their respective handedness. Burger would spell Moncada late to cover a LHP, whereas Sheets would spell Vaughn against a tough RHP. And they would be entering the game defensively at positions they can cover. Yes you lose something at third, and Moncada is arguably a true switch hitter potentially. But Burger crushed LHP, Sheets crushes RHP. That’s gold. To me a high leverage PH AB with a favorable matchup is way more valuable than a replacement level player you can move around anywhere. I would rather DFA Leury and get a vet CF on a minor league deal who can give me just enough if Robert goes down for a stretch. 

I don’t think Vaughn or Moncada are getting pinch hit for by AAAA players. 

[Greg Hibbard]

Why not?

If Vaughn starts against LHP, do you want him and his .691 career OPS against a tough RH setup guy or Sheets with his nearly .800 OPS, especially with a likely RH closer looming?

Let’s say another scenario happens, and Burger starts against a tough Lefty because Moncada is not nearly as offensively good with a .713 OPS, then I do the opposite and bring Moncada for the above scenario.  

This is exactly why I want Sheets and Burger both on the team. Both have power, and I want the stronger bat to come in when the opposing manager plays extremely strong percentage plays. 

 

[ChiSoxTrojan]

14 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

The other reason I favor Burger and Sheets is because the two players they would be pinch hitting for in high leverage situations are basically the opposite handedness to their respective handedness. Burger would spell Moncada late to cover a LHP, whereas Sheets would spell Vaughn against a tough RHP. And they would be entering the game defensively at positions they can cover. Yes you lose something at third, and Moncada is arguably a true switch hitter potentially. But Burger crushed LHP, Sheets crushes RHP. That’s gold. To me a high leverage PH AB with a favorable matchup is way more valuable than a replacement level player you can move around anywhere. I would rather DFA Leury and get a vet CF on a minor league deal who can give me just enough if Robert goes down for a stretch. 

In a world where Burger and Sheets are both on the bench, the last bench spot has to go to Leury; he's the only candidate with the versatility to cover all of the IF and OF. So I don't know how you can in the same paragraph advocate for both of them, but also advocate for DFAing Leury.

In general, it seems like you're setting this roster up to try to win a playoff series rather than for the grind of 162 games. The main purpose of the bench isn't to provide pinch hit opportunities, it's to give guys days off and fill in for minor injuries.