CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 On 3/6/2023 at 3:40 PM, flavum said: Any of the core guys mentioned that stay off the IL all season should certainly start 150 games. Colas will be a see how it goes guy. Andrus should start 135. Early on I'd play them every day when there are off days built into the schedule and rain outs. Might as well get as many games and wins as we can out of them until they get injured. When the schedule tightens up and the weather is better they'll need more days off. But I want them to find their bats as early as possible and stay in the lineup. Can't treat them like China dolls any more. Either they start producing and staying on the field or there will be massive changes . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said: In a world where Burger and Sheets are both on the bench, the last bench spot has to go to Leury; he's the only candidate with the versatility to cover all of the IF and OF. So I don't know how you can in the same paragraph advocate for both of them, but also advocate for DFAing Leury. In general, it seems like you're setting this roster up to try to win a playoff series rather than for the grind of 162 games. The main purpose of the bench isn't to provide pinch hit opportunities, it's to give guys days off and fill in for minor injuries. Sheets and Vaughn can both be the emergency outfielders, if Robert is IL’d or anyone else goes down, you call up Billy or whoever outfielder, otherwise Colas can back up CF and Sheets and Eloy and Vaughn back up right while Eloy and Vaughn back up Left. why can’t Romy be the guy to cover 2nd and SS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said: Why not? If Vaughn starts against LHP, do you want him and his .691 career OPS against a tough RH setup guy or Sheets with his nearly .800 OPS, especially with a likely RH closer looming? Let’s say another scenario happens, and Burger starts against a tough Lefty because Moncada is not nearly as offensively good with a .713 OPS, then I do the opposite and bring Moncada for the above scenario. This is exactly why I want Sheets and Burger both on the team. Both have power, and I want the stronger bat to come in when the opposing manager plays extremely strong percentage plays. Because Vaughn and Moncada are vastly better players than Sheets and Burger. AV could well be the next cornerstone of this franchise; I don't see the Sox pinch hitting for him late in games, nor should they. And by this pinch hitting role you're putting Burger/Sheets in, you're also downgrading the defense substantially for the rest of the game for what amounts to maybe a very small matchup advantage in 1 at bat, that in many scenarios will be counteracted with an immediate pitching change anyway. I just don't really think Pedro is going to manage that way - he is going to stick with his core guys late in games, IMO. Look, I like Burger and Sheets. They are fantastic depth pieces. Both are likely to get a lot of MLB at bats at certain times in 2023 due to injuries. IMO, they should both start the season in Charlotte getting everyday at bats and every day reps in the field assuming Colas breaks camp with the Sox. IMO, the bench SHOULD be Seby, Leury, Alberto and a RHH OF that is a plus defender via a waiver claim / milb deal guy that doesn't make their current roster (or I guess one of the internal OF options (Billy/Marisnick/Haseley) if nothing materializes there). I think the bench WILL be Seby, Sheets, Alberto and Leury. The only way Burger makes a single lick of sense on this roster on OD if is Colas is in AAA. Edited March 23, 2023 by ChiSox59 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4uckOffCommieScum Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Burger would make sense if you’re willing to use Eloy as a fourth outfielder to get Burger’s bat in at DH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxTrojan Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Because Vaughn and Moncada are vastly better players than Sheets and Burger. AV could well be the next cornerstone of this franchise; I don't see the Sox pinch hitting for him late in games, nor should they. And by this pinch hitting role you're putting Burger/Sheets in, you're also downgrading the defense substantially for the rest of the game for what amounts to maybe a very small matchup advantage in 1 at bat, that in many scenarios will be counteracted with an immediate pitching change anyway. I just don't really think Pedro is going to manage that way - he is going to stick with his core guys late in games, IMO. Look, I like Burger and Sheets. They are fantastic depth pieces. Both are likely to get a lot of MLB at bats at certain times in 2023 due to injuries. IMO, they should both start the season in Charlotte getting everyday at bats and every day reps in the field assuming Colas breaks camp with the Sox. IMO, the bench SHOULD be Seby, Leury, Alberto and a RHH OF that is a plus defender via a waiver claim / milb deal guy that doesn't make their current roster (or I guess one of the internal OF options (Billy/Marisnick/Haseley) if nothing materializes there). I think the bench WILL be Seby, Sheets, Alberto and Leury. The only way Burger makes a single lick of sense on this roster on OD if is Colas is in AAA. Agree with all of this, except that I am doubtful any outside addition is coming for the OF and I don't really see a need for any of Hamilton/Marisnick/Haseley. In a division where your main competition doesn't have a single left-handed starter, I would rather have Sheets around. I also worry about Vaughn's durability and think he should get plenty of off days throughout the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 17 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Because Vaughn and Moncada are vastly better players than Sheets and Burger. AV could well be the next cornerstone of this franchise; I don't see the Sox pinch hitting for him late in games, nor should they. And by this pinch hitting role you're putting Burger/Sheets in, you're also downgrading the defense substantially for the rest of the game for what amounts to maybe a very small matchup advantage in 1 at bat, that in many scenarios will be counteracted with an immediate pitching change anyway. I just don't really think Pedro is going to manage that way - he is going to stick with his core guys late in games, IMO. Look, I like Burger and Sheets. They are fantastic depth pieces. Both are likely to get a lot of MLB at bats at certain times in 2023 due to injuries. IMO, they should both start the season in Charlotte getting everyday at bats and every day reps in the field assuming Colas breaks camp with the Sox. IMO, the bench SHOULD be Seby, Leury, Alberto and a RHH OF that is a plus defender via a waiver claim / milb deal guy that doesn't make their current roster (or I guess one of the internal OF options (Billy/Marisnick/Haseley) if nothing materializes there). I think the bench WILL be Seby, Sheets, Alberto and Leury. The only way Burger makes a single lick of sense on this roster on OD if is Colas is in AAA. I suppose what I’m also saying is that I’ve seen Leury, and the ceiling for Leury at age 31 is AAAA. There’s no upside. Defense isn’t plus at any position, offense is bad both handed, running is average. I think the ceiling for Sheets and Burger is potentially higher, and I would live with a little minus defense at the corners if Robert is truly healthy, and with Andrus and Anderson in the infield and Vaughn at his natural position, we are in better shape defensively anyway to start, so I don’t mind losing defense to potentially power which was the single biggest deficiency last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxTrojan Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said: Burger would make sense if you’re willing to use Eloy as a fourth outfielder to get Burger’s bat in at DH That's what Sheets is for, at least against RHP. And most of the starters the Sox are going to face this year are right-handed. I don't agree with the idea that Colas is going to only sit against LHP, when (a) he's shown that he hits LHP really well, and (b) there aren't a lot of those starts to begin with. Colas will get days off because he's a rookie acclimating to the major leagues, but those off days are more likely to come against RHP than LHP. Sheets is also a much better defensive 1B than Burger, who has looked shaky (granted he's new to the position). In fact Sheets is probably a better defensive 1B than Vaughn. With Vaughn's durability questionable, he probably shouldn't play the field more than 4-5 times/week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said: Sheets and Vaughn can both be the emergency outfielders, if Robert is IL’d or anyone else goes down, you call up Billy or whoever outfielder, otherwise Colas can back up CF and Sheets and Eloy and Vaughn back up right while Eloy and Vaughn back up Left. why can’t Romy be the guy to cover 2nd and SS? Romy can play a better OF than Sheets or Vaughn . Plus you don't want Eloy in the OF either. But Eloy has to play every day . You still want wins and a better defensive guy who can at least run into a pitch and knock it of the park once in a while in a pinch hitting role and when in the starting lineup . The bench has to be the best combination of hitting and defense. I doubt they want to use Colas at all in CF. If he's going to be out there full time keep him in RF to learn the ballparks better . Tough choice but luckily some guys have options. It's the veteran guys like Alberto, Marisnick and Hamilton who may not accept a minor league assignment and could prefer to catch on with a MLB team and ask to be released. Alberto ,being a former KC guy who Grifol may have wanted ,might have an inside track especially since he's been pounding the ball even if he can't play OF. If we base the decision on defense and hitting in the spring along with Grifol's preference and that maybe Alberto, if not chosen for the 26 may ask to be released, Haseley, Alberto look to have an edge. I know we want some bombers like Burger and Sheets here but they aren't good or versatile enough defensively to make opening day. One of them still may though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoeLessRob Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Whoever they decide, we will b****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Romy can play a better OF than Sheets or Vaughn . Plus you don't want Eloy in the OF either. But Eloy has to play every day . You still want wins and a better defensive guy who can at least run into a pitch and knock it of the park once in a while in a pinch hitting role and when in the starting lineup . The bench has to be the best combination of hitting and defense. I doubt they want to use Colas at all in CF. If he's going to be out there full time keep him in RF to learn the ballparks better . Tough choice but luckily some guys have options. It's the veteran guys like Alberto, Marisnick and Hamilton who may not accept a minor league assignment and could prefer to catch on with a MLB team and ask to be released. Alberto ,being a former KC guy who Grifol may have wanted ,might have an inside track especially since he's been pounding the ball even if he can't play OF. If we base the decision on defense and hitting in the spring along with Grifol's preference and that maybe Alberto, if not chosen for the 26 may ask to be released, Haseley, Alberto look to have an edge. I know we want some bombers like Burger and Sheets here but they aren't good or versatile enough defensively to make opening day. One of them still may though. We don’t want Eloy in the OF but what we want doesn’t matter and irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4uckOffCommieScum Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Theoretically you could have a bench with both Burger and Sheets, but that would require someone like Leury as the third guy. But if Colas or Benintendi can back up CF that would largely limit Leury to subbing in the middle of the infield. Playing Eloy in the outfield would allow you to sub in Burger for OFers and 3b and Sheets for OFer’s and 1b, Leury at 2b and SS and secondarily in the OF. That would be a pretty weak defensive bench but maybe having the two big bats would be worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4uckOffCommieScum Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 I’m pretty ambivalent about it though. I could also argue going the opposite route and going something involving Alberto, Billy and Haseley for example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 And this is why Leury is in a lot of trouble, in terms of making the roster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: Because Vaughn and Moncada are vastly better players than Sheets and Burger. AV could well be the next cornerstone of this franchise; I don't see the Sox pinch hitting for him late in games, nor should they. And by this pinch hitting role you're putting Burger/Sheets in, you're also downgrading the defense substantially for the rest of the game for what amounts to maybe a very small matchup advantage in 1 at bat, that in many scenarios will be counteracted with an immediate pitching change anyway. I just don't really think Pedro is going to manage that way - he is going to stick with his core guys late in games, IMO. Look, I like Burger and Sheets. They are fantastic depth pieces. Both are likely to get a lot of MLB at bats at certain times in 2023 due to injuries. IMO, they should both start the season in Charlotte getting everyday at bats and every day reps in the field assuming Colas breaks camp with the Sox. IMO, the bench SHOULD be Seby, Leury, Alberto and a RHH OF that is a plus defender via a waiver claim / milb deal guy that doesn't make their current roster (or I guess one of the internal OF options (Billy/Marisnick/Haseley) if nothing materializes there). I think the bench WILL be Seby, Sheets, Alberto and Leury. The only way Burger makes a single lick of sense on this roster on OD if is Colas is in AAA. It's interesting how "some" folks who back playing Burger seemingly are not concerned about his defense and I had to listen to a bunch of fans complain about one of my all time fave's defense at 1B for years. It's crazy the double standard for certain guys. I can't really see Burger ever even being average on D. I do like his hitterishness though. He can sting the ball. Edited March 23, 2023 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 hours ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said: Burger would make sense if you’re willing to use Eloy as a fourth outfielder to get Burger’s bat in at DH Against Lefties, you put Eloy in RF and DH Burger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4uckOffCommieScum Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 If you just went by the best bats, Sheets, Burger and Alberto would actually be workable although not ideal. Alberto did have that .305/.329/.422 line back in ‘19 the only time he got full time at bats, so I’d say he has the highest upside among the infield options. You’d have to be willing to play Colas in CF and Eloy in RF though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4uckOffCommieScum Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, greg775 said: It's interesting how "some" folks who back playing Burger seemingly are not concerned about his defense and I had to listen to a bunch of fans complain about one of my all time fave's defense at 1B. It's crazy the double standard for certain guys. I can't really see Burger ever even being average on D. I do like his hitterishness though. He can sting the ball. I don’t think anyone is advocating for Burger to be the starting first baseman though. Also, the board is comprised of various individuals that’s why there is disagreement amongst various posts. I for one thought Abreu went from decent to pretty good to good on defense over the course of his time here 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 2022 White Sox motto: Firstbaseman are in the corner outfield 2023 White Sox motto: Firstbasemen make up half the bench Progress?¿?¿ 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said: 2022 White Sox motto: Firstbaseman are in the corner outfield 2023 White Sox motto: Firstbasemen make up half the bench Progress?¿?¿ Maybe they think a lack of defensive position is the new market inefficiency to exploit? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/03/veterans-with-upcoming-opt-outs-on-minor-league-deals.html Posted for relevance. It's a list of veterans with upcoming opt outs. Not sure it's a great list as I'm sure we/they don't know the language of every MiLB deal. But these are the guys who at least have an automatic one. It has Hanser Alberto and Billy Hamilton listed for the Sox. Again, that doesn't mean that other guys don't have one, depending on their agreement. Edited March 23, 2023 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Listening to Stoney talk about what Pedro is looking for on the bench, I think we get Sheets, Burger, Alberto and Seby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Burger, Haseley, Alberto and Seby The fact that Haseley is LH isn’t ideal, but I think he’s by far the best 4th OF on the roster (it’s a really low bar) Burger has the best bat in case of a pinch hit situation is needed against a tough lefty. Can back up 3B and 1B Alberto is the best utility IF we have (again, a low bar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, fathom said: Listening to Stoney talk about what Pedro is looking for on the bench, I think we get Sheets, Burger, Alberto and Seby No 4th (actual) outfielder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Snopek said: No 4th (actual) outfielder? Burger DH, Eloy RF, Colas CF if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, fathom said: Burger DH, Eloy RF, Colas CF if needed. *When needed. But yeah, I imagine that's how that would go. Gross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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