2023 AL Central Predictions

[Texsox]

42 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I would be surprised if there is a majority that thinks about them.

Fixed. I believe the majority of fans here have worked through the five stages of a typical White Sox season. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and here we are now, at acceptance.

Next year will be better. The Hawks have a star and the Bears will be better. That shortens the already too long baseball season to something manageable. Toss in a summer vacation and Sox baseball will be sustainable for the next great build. (Can't call it rebuild, because who wants a rebuild of this disaster?)

 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, Jerry McNertney said:

I'm probably in a minority here, but I think the White Sox still have a chance of finishing third in the ALC. The odds are against them, but it's the best that can be hoped for in this miserable season.

Who cares about finishing 3rd.

[Bob Sacamano]

It was fun going into the season with an open mind and optimism this year but man, that was short-lived.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[South Side Hit Men]

47 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Who cares about finishing 3rd.

With the expanded playoffs, 3rd is the new 2nd.

 

[Balta1701]

59 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Who cares about finishing 3rd.

Rick Hahn does, he will tout that as the kind of impressive accomplishment that should earn him another 4 years. You realize how hard it is to build a 3rd place team? The White Sox’s GM couldn’t do that for a 6 year period between 2013 and 2018, so you know this GM must be doing something much better than that guy.

[FloydBannister1983]

On 3/7/2023 at 12:22 PM, Tnetennba said:

I'm not being negative just for the sake of being negative.  Being critical doesn't automatically equate to negativity.  I don't have a lot of faith left to put in the FO, and rationally I just don't see all of the IFs bouncing the Sox way.  There are simply too many questions unanswered for me to be confident that they will be significantly better aside from excising the massive cancer that was TLR.  If that is negative simply for negativity's sake, then I can't help you.  I may not share your optimism, but I'd like to think there is some level of objectivity in my views.  Again, I hope I am wrong, and everything breaks right, and instead of rehashing everything that went wrong we are celebrating come October.  I just can't squint that hard at this point.

Kind of seems that you and Parkman were realistic and completely objective and there were a bunch of people being rude for the sake of being rude.

[FloydBannister1983]

On 7/23/2023 at 8:30 AM, The Mighty Mite said:

They won’t get to 70 wins.

They would need to go 29-32.

Seems unattainable.

 

[FloydBannister1983]

On 7/23/2023 at 9:44 AM, Tnetennba said:

I was down on them but I didn’t think it would be *this* level of bad.  They were a worse team on paper and did little to improve the roster over the winter.  Everyone being injured all of the time was easy to see, but TA cratering I did not predict.  Nor did I think Pedro would be a completely incompetent amateur making the head-scratchingly asinine commonplace. 

I felt safe saying closer to 90 losses than 90 wins, but I didn’t think they would lose 90+, let alone close to 100. 

I thought it would be close to this level of bad but I thought it would be because Giolito and Cease and another starter would break down but the hitting would be fine.  I was completely wrong about that.  The pitching has been ok and the hitting has been just awful.  The entire year.

[FloydBannister1983]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:54 PM, Texsox said:

I agree with you but we are underestimating the franchise's ability to f*** up. 

Here's a few ways it can get worse. Players were largely left alone for a couple seasons are suddenly being scrutinized and someone is demanding better production. That could piss off a few players who chaff under the new leadership. They liked having a manager asleep in the dugout. 

We think guys will play better while relearning to play their "natural" position. Maybe not.

Another year older will be great for some, not so great for others. 

Pitching still matters. 

Once injured - twice shy or something like that. 

But more likely, they will find a new, even more spectacular way to be worse.

 

Nailed it.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

I thought it would be close to this level of bad but I thought it would be because Giolito and Cease and another starter would break down but the hitting would be fine.  I was completely wrong about that.  The pitching has been ok and the hitting has been just awful.  The entire year.

This team is 24th in ERA and 25th in pitching WAR. They had a month long streak where they looked better thanks to the best BABIP in baseball by far, but that just means they’ve been streaky by chance. They’ve even been generally healthy, 4 of their opening day starters are here and no pitcher has been lost for the season. Their pitching isnt even ok. If they were an average offense and had this pitching in a normal division, they still wouldn’t be good.

[FloydBannister1983]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

This team is 24th in ERA and 25th in pitching WAR. They had a month long streak where they looked better thanks to the best BABIP in baseball by far, but that just means they’ve been streaky by chance. They’ve even been generally healthy, 4 of their opening day starters are here and no pitcher has been lost for the season. Their pitching isnt even ok. If they were an average offense and had this pitching in a normal division, they still wouldn’t be good.

Yeah you’re right.  I guess I’ve been blinded by Giolito being just ok and Lynn having a decent start here and there.

I figured Cease was a one year wonder and I always knew Kopech was a guy who just wanted to throw 115 mph and didn’t really care about pitching.  And I always root against Clevinger.

[The Kids Can Play]

2 hours ago, Jerry McNertney said:

I'm probably in a minority here, but I think the White Sox still have a chance of finishing third in the ALC. The odds are against them, but it's the best that can be hoped for in this miserable season.

At this point, the only place I imagine the majority think about, is to see this team implode worst and finish in the bottom worst three teams to have a shot at the #1 pick. Of course if it's still the current FO making that selection, I'm sure they will fu*k that up too.

[Kyyle23]

On 3/7/2023 at 9:17 AM, Kyyle23 said:

Pain

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

It was fun going into the season with an open mind and optimism this year but man, that was short-lived.

Was it?  TLR being gone was reason to rejoice, but the roster was much worse on paper.  Did we really get that drunk on the Pedro presser koolaid?

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

I thought it would be close to this level of bad but I thought it would be because Giolito and Cease and another starter would break down but the hitting would be fine.  I was completely wrong about that.  The pitching has been ok and the hitting has been just awful.  The entire year.

Injuries ravaging this team again was easy to predict.  They had maybe 3 starters worth a damn.  Eloy being MIA was predictable, as was the complete lack of depth, but TA cratering and AV being ostensibly invisible weren't.  Being free of TLR didn't give them they bounce many were predicting either.  

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Who cares about finishing 3rd.

Remember JR said that finishing third could mean a good season ?

[Bob Sacamano]

18 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Was it?  TLR being gone was reason to rejoice, but the roster was much worse on paper.  Did we really get that drunk on the Pedro presser koolaid?

By no means was I blind to it. I've just been more pessimistic since the day they hired TLR and I tried to go in with a better attitude this year. It didn't last very long lol

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Injuries ravaging this team again was easy to predict.  They had maybe 3 starters worth a damn.  Eloy being MIA was predictable, as was the complete lack of depth, but TA cratering and AV being ostensibly invisible weren't.  Being free of TLR didn't give them they bounce many were predicting either.  

They’ve been quite healthy this season, among the healthier teams in the league. It only looks like injury matters because anyone getting hurt at all is an instant disaster since the only MLB level backup in the whole organization is Burger. 

[Tnetennba]

19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

They’ve been quite healthy this season, among the healthier teams in the league. It only looks like injury matters because anyone getting hurt at all is an instant disaster since the only MLB level backup in the whole organization is Burger. 

How do you quantify "quite healthy" when Moncada, Eloy, TA, Clevinger, Kelly, Crochet, Liam, and Romy have all missed significant time, and AV is in a walking boot with no word on how long he will be out?  I know you love to argue and to correct people, but my point about injuries being an issue still stands.  This org never values depth, which only exacerbates the injury issues.  It was as predictable as anything.

 

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

How do you quantify "quite healthy" when Moncada, Eloy, TA, Clevinger, Kelly, Crochet, Liam, and Romy have all missed significant time, and AV is in a walking boot with no word on how long he will be out?  I know you love to argue and to correct people, but my point about injuries being an issue still stands.  This org never values depth, which only exacerbates the injury issues.  It was as predictable as anything.

 

I'm guessing Balta is comparing the Sox injury situation to other teams and from that perspective he's probably right.

But..........

Given the Sox have ZERO depth, as you said ANY injury kills them and the fact that the "core" group, the players they were building around, can't seem to go a month without something happening makes your point valid.

This has been the situation for years going back to the start of the rebuild in 2016 when they had trouble keeping people healthy at all levels. 

[FloydBannister1983]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

They’ve been quite healthy this season, among the healthier teams in the league. It only looks like injury matters because anyone getting hurt at all is an instant disaster since the only MLB level backup in the whole organization is Burger. 

Burger who is second on the team in home runs.

[FloydBannister1983]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

How do you quantify "quite healthy" when Moncada, Eloy, TA, Clevinger, Kelly, Crochet, Liam, and Romy have all missed significant time, and AV is in a walking boot with no word on how long he will be out?  I know you love to argue and to correct people, but my point about injuries being an issue still stands.  This org never values depth, which only exacerbates the injury issues.  It was as predictable as anything.

 

Compared to other teams and specifically division rivals they have been quite healthy.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

How do you quantify "quite healthy" when Moncada, Eloy, TA, Clevinger, Kelly, Crochet, Liam, and Romy have all missed significant time, and AV is in a walking boot with no word on how long he will be out?  I know you love to argue and to correct people, but my point about injuries being an issue still stands.  This org never values depth, which only exacerbates the injury issues.  It was as predictable as anything.

 

Take a look at a team with a similar number of IL days to the White Sox - the Astros.

Luis Garcia - out for the season (TJS)
Lance McCullers - missing the entire season
Jose Urquidy - has been out since April, may pitch again this week.
Jose Altuve - missed 2/3 of the season so far
Michael Brantley - hasn't played this season at all, may not.
Yordan Alvarez - missed the last 37 games with an oblique
With a handful of other guys (McCormick) who have also missed time.

Do the White Sox's injury loads even compare to this? Altuve alone might have outproduced everyone you mentioned combined. And this is nothing compared to an actually banged up team like the Dodgers or Yankees.

The White Sox have been generally healthy overall. Injuries league-wide were up by quite a bit earlier this year, I'm not sure if the number is still 20% higher but it was 20% higher as of May compared to last year. The White Sox have some injuries, Hendriks hurt admittedly, but nothing that should be remotely outrageous for any normal team. The trick with the White Sox is that they can't endure a single injury because they don't have any depth - oh and they make things worse by being imbeciles (Hendriks, Crochet).

The Astros are on their 7th and 8th starters coming into the year, and they've been generally ok. The White Sox's 6th starter left his last outing last year with elbow pain, they did nothing to bring in any depth whatsoever during the offseason, and then had to drag in Touki Toussaint because it was so unbelievable that they might need any more depth than the guy who had an elbow injury. 

[Balta1701]

24 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

Burger who is second on the team in home runs.

And 13th in OBP, just ahead of Hanser Alberto. 

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

And 13th in OBP, just ahead of Hanser Alberto. 

Making Burger sound bad with his .270 OBP is a bad argument and is very misleading when the Sox are 29th in OBP in MLB. The entre team sucks in OBP relative to the top teams.

Yes Burger's OBP is .270 which is bad. However is that any worse than Tim Anderson at .281 OBP? At least Burger is 2nd with 21 home runs and 3rd with 47 RBI's. How does that compare to the starter TA with 0 HR's and 17 RBI's? Plus the only reason TA is a only bit higher in OBP is only because TA has a few more hits. Burger has 17 walks in 276 AB's to TA's 17 walks in 311 AB's.

Plus at least Burger comes to play every game healthy with a great attitude, as opposed to some other Sox third baseman.