Batting Order

[Chicago White Sox]

Since this camp has been incredibly boring, I figured it’s time to get some discussion going on more regular season oriented topics.  The first one is how would you lay out the everyday batting order.  For this exercise, let’s assume Colas makes the team.  

Also, note that any splits I’ve referenced reflect that player’s four year averages against RHP/LHP pitching from 2019 to 2022 unless noted otherwise.

Here is what I’d do against RHP (OBP | ISO | wRC+):

1. Anderson, SS (.335 | .138 | 112)
2. Benintendi, LF* (.344 | .146 | 107)
3. Robert, CF (.360 | .179 | 134) (‘21)
4. Jimenez, DH (.329 | .240 | 129)
5. Moncada, 3B# (.341 | .178 | 113)
6. Vaughn, 1B (.309 | .184 | 112) (‘22)
7. Grandal, C# (.347 | .178 | 105)
8. Colas, RF* (.357 | .162 | NA) (‘22 W-S)
9. Andrus, 2B (.303 | .116 | 84)

Here is what I’d do against LHP (OBP | ISO | wRC+):

1. Anderson, SS (.380 | .211 | 154)
2. Robert, CF (.403 | .242 | 172)
3. Jimenez, DH (.327 | .228 | 124)
4. Vaughn, 1B (.383 | .286 | 154) (‘21)
5. Grandal, C# (.420 | .231 | 148) 
6. Gonzalez, RF (.395 | .246 | NA)
7. Moncada, 3B# (.344 | .164 | 112)
8. Andrus, 2B (.297 | .126 | 81)
9. Benintendi, LF* (.349 | .128 | 105)

[CentralChamps21]

Sox will never do this, but I'd have Moncada lead off vs RHP. He takes pitches and gets on base. Anderson should be batting 6th-7th vs RHP.

[Chicago White Sox]

16 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Sox will never do this, but I'd have Moncada lead off vs RHP. He takes pitches and gets on base. Anderson should be batting 6th-7th vs RHP.

Honestly, you just need to get him back to his 2021 version and he’s a damn good lead-off hitter against RHP.  For better or worse, I think Tim will be the lead-off hitter this year everyday he’s in the lineup though.

[zisk]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Honestly, you just need to get him back to his 2021 version and he’s a damn good lead-off hitter against RHP.  For better or worse, I think Tim will be the lead-off hitter this year everyday he’s in the lineup though.

kind of a shame. he might knock  in 100 hitting 5th. would probably lead the league in GIDP,s too. have always been

puzzled why he starts so slow out of the batters box. maybe the slowest in the league. after 5-6 years you'd think he

would improve a little.

Edited March 12, 2023 by zisk
add

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, zisk said:

kind of a shame. he might knock  in 100 hitting 5th

Tim?

[zisk]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Tim?

yep. averages 50 extra base hits a year and almost always puts it in play. i remember tommy herr knocking in 110

one year with just 8 HR's

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, zisk said:

yep. averages 50 extra base hits a year and almost always puts it in play. i remember tommy herr knocking in 110

one year with just 8 HR's

Yeah, I do think against RHP, he’s slots in better around 5th or 6th.  He’s still a solid hitter against RHP, but the subpar OBP doesn’t work quite that well at the top of the lineup.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Since this camp has been incredibly boring, I figured it’s time to get some discussion going on more regular season oriented topics.  The first one is how would you lay out the everyday batting order.  For this exercise, let’s assume Colas makes the team.  

Also, note that any splits I’ve referenced reflect that player’s four year averages against RHP/LHP pitching from 2019 to 2022 unless noted otherwise.

Here is what I’d do against RHP (OBP | ISO | wRC+):

1. Anderson, SS (.335 | .138 | 112)
2. Benintendi, LF* (.344 | .146 | 107)
3. Robert, CF (.360 | .179 | 134) (‘21)
4. Jimenez, DH (.329 | .240 | 129)
5. Moncada, 3B# (.341 | .178 | 113)
6. Vaughn, 1B (.309 | .184 | 112) (‘22)
7. Grandal, C# (.347 | .178 | 105)
8. Colas, RF* (.357 | .162 | NA) (‘22 W-S)
9. Andrus, 2B (.303 | .116 | 84)

Here is what I’d do against LHP (OBP | ISO | wRC+):

1. Anderson, SS (.380 | .211 | 154)
2. Robert, CF (.403 | .242 | 172)
3. Jimenez, DH (.327 | .228 | 124)
4. Vaughn, 1B (.383 | .286 | 154) (‘21)
5. Grandal, C# (.420 | .231 | 148) 
6. Gonzalez, RF (.395 | .246 | NA)
7. Moncada, 3B# (.344 | .164 | 112)
8. Andrus, 2B (.297 | .126 | 81)
9. Benintendi, LF* (.349 | .128 | 105)

I trust Colas to be better than Moncada as a hitter. There's no way I'm putting Moncada 5th against righties. I want a hitter there not a walk/K guy. He has a lot to prove.  .400 slugging guys shouldn't be batting 5th even if his slugging is slightly higher against RHP. Since Moncada will be  in the lineup every day because of his defense I'd bat him 8th or 9th against any kind of pitching until he proves he can still hit.

I know people are going to talk about pressure if you put Colas in the middle of the order but he is a middle of the order hitter against righties. I can see a more cautious approach vs. LHP with him but replacing him with Romy ?  NO ! Every indication is that he can hit LHP pitching too. Trust the kid to be almost everything he was in the minors. I don't want to establish a pattern of him not getting AB's against LHP.  He should be a fixture in the lineup like TA, Benintendi, Moncada, Eloy, Robert, Andrus, Vaughn and Grandal. He's got a lot of helium right now. I've been saying for a while he's going to be a savage and I'm not backing down from that even if I end up replacing Harold jokes about Kelenic.

The whole lineup 1-9 has to play and only rested on given days off. Switch those 9 guys around depending on the handedness of the pitcher but play them all as much as possible. Grandal should get the most amount of rest but after that plan on having them all play 140+ games.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I trust Colas to be better than Moncada as a hitter. There's no way I'm putting Moncada 5th against righties. I want a hitter there not a walk/K guy. He has a lot to prove.  .400 slugging guys shouldn't be batting 5th even if his slugging is slightly higher against RHP. Since Moncada will be  in the lineup every day because of his defense I'd bat him 8th or 9th against any kind of pitching until he proves he can still hit.

I know people are going to talk about pressure if you put Colas in the middle of the order but he is a middle of the order hitter against righties. I can see a more cautious approach vs. LHP with him but replacing him with Romy ?  NO ! Every indication is that he can hit LHP pitching too. Trust the kid to be almost everything he was in the minors. I don't want to establish a pattern of him not getting AB's against LHP.  He should be a fixture in the lineup like TA, Benintendi, Moncada, Eloy, Robert, Andrus, Vaughn and Grandal. He's got a lot of helium right now. I've been saying for a while he's going to be a savage and I'm not backing down from that even if I end up replacing Harold jokes about Kelenic.

The whole lineup 1-9 has to play and only rested on given days off. Switch those 9 guys around depending on the handedness of the pitcher but play them all as much as possible. Grandal should get the most amount of rest but after that plan on having them all play 140+ games.

If Colas proves himself that’s totally fine, but you don’t start the season with batting anywhere but the bottom 3rd of the lineup.  And he may not end up a platoon bat (I’m optimistic he won’t), but it’s only natural to give him some rope to start the year against LHP.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I don’t care what hand the pitcher throws with, no way in hell am I putting Romy in the lineup over Colas under any circumstance. Im not sure there’s valid reasoning for Romy to even make the team, let alone earn a platoon spot. I’d rather see Eloy play RF (and I really don’t want to see that) and Burger DH than Romy get AB’s. If you’re going to start the clock on Colas then just let the kid play. If he fails into a platoon then so be it, but cross that bridge if we get there. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Top 6 nothing lower for Colas. Can't be afraid of the big stage. Get him used to it. We'll need him there in the playoffs.

Edited March 12, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[greg775]

I want me some Burger and Colas following Timmy, Eloy and Robert. Will Burger and Colas make team?

[Bob Sacamano]

Yeah I think Colas hits in the bottom 3rd of the order to start the year. A good Spring Training is nice and all but means close to nothing.

[Tnetennba]

32 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah I think Colas hits in the bottom 3rd of the order to start the year. A good Spring Training is nice and all but means close to nothing.

Yeah, no team good at what they do pencils him in any higher than 7th to start.  Once he proves himself he gradually gets gets raises higher in the order.  I hope they don’t platoon him until he shows he can’t handle lefties, but would understand why they might ease him in there too. 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, Tnetennba said:

Yeah, no team good at what they do pencils him in any higher than 7th to start.  Once he proves himself he gradually gets gets raises higher in the order.  I hope they don’t platoon him until he shows he can’t handle lefties, but would understand why they might ease him in there too. 

At this point, I’m not even sure there’s anyone worth platooning him with so I think he’s probably safe.

[pcq]

Our rookie will lead the way for our uninspired vets, along with Elvis. What could go wrong? 

[Bob Sacamano]

22 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Since this camp has been incredibly boring, I figured it’s time to get some discussion going on more regular season oriented topics.  The first one is how would you lay out the everyday batting order.  For this exercise, let’s assume Colas makes the team.  

Also, note that any splits I’ve referenced reflect that player’s four year averages against RHP/LHP pitching from 2019 to 2022 unless noted otherwise.

Here is what I’d do against RHP (OBP | ISO | wRC+):

1. Anderson, SS (.335 | .138 | 112)
2. Benintendi, LF* (.344 | .146 | 107)
3. Robert, CF (.360 | .179 | 134) (‘21)
4. Jimenez, DH (.329 | .240 | 129)
5. Moncada, 3B# (.341 | .178 | 113)
6. Vaughn, 1B (.309 | .184 | 112) (‘22)
7. Grandal, C# (.347 | .178 | 105)
8. Colas, RF* (.357 | .162 | NA) (‘22 W-S)
9. Andrus, 2B (.303 | .116 | 84)

Here is what I’d do against LHP (OBP | ISO | wRC+):

1. Anderson, SS (.380 | .211 | 154)
2. Robert, CF (.403 | .242 | 172)
3. Jimenez, DH (.327 | .228 | 124)
4. Vaughn, 1B (.383 | .286 | 154) (‘21)
5. Grandal, C# (.420 | .231 | 148) 
6. Gonzalez, RF (.395 | .246 | NA)
7. Moncada, 3B# (.344 | .164 | 112)
8. Andrus, 2B (.297 | .126 | 81)
9. Benintendi, LF* (.349 | .128 | 105)

Pretty close to how I have it. The only difference is I wouldn't platoon Colas until he proves he can't hit lefties.

[bmags]

Literally all I care about is benintendi not batting third.

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

Literally all I care about is benintendi not batting third.

Agreed. Flip him and Robert so Robert is 3 and the guy who is supposed to get on base is in front of him.

I get the whole "bat your best player 2nd" idea but I mean, we're talking about 1 spot in the order.

[ScootsMcGoots]

If Leury doesn't bat leadoff for 162 games I'm becoming a cubs fan.

[CentralChamps21]

If Burger keeps hitting, I could see him making the team, with him getting 1-2 starts a week at 3B and some starts at DH vs LHP with Eloy playing RF.

[Quin]

CHGO did their ideal lineup (i.e. everyone performing to their talent level) broadcast two weeks ago and it was along these lines.

1. TA - R
2. Benintendi - L
3. Robert - R
4. Eloy - R
5. Grandal - S
6. Vaughn - R
7. Moncada - S
8. Colas / Sheets - L
9. Andrus - R

This would be pretty close to my ideal lineup. Grandal, Vaughn and Moncada could all switch spots depending on how they perform.

[chw42]

4 minutes ago, Quin said:

CHGO did their ideal lineup (i.e. everyone performing to their talent level) broadcast two weeks ago and it was along these lines.

1. TA - R
2. Benintendi - L
3. Robert - R
4. Eloy - R
5. Grandal - S
6. Vaughn - R
7. Moncada - S
8. Colas / Sheets - L
9. Andrus - R

This would be pretty close to my ideal lineup. Grandal, Vaughn and Moncada could all switch spots depending on how they perform.

I think if Yoan were back to at least 2021 form, he should be hitting 2nd. That allows you to hit Benintendi 5th to split the righties. 

[Quin]

6 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I think if Yoan were back to at least 2021 form, he should be hitting 2nd. That allows you to hit Benintendi 5th to split the righties. 

I hope the shift changes help Yoan. Looking at his spray chart, he hits so much up the middle, more than I remember. Here's his batted ball profile:

Pull: 34.7%
Straight: 41.1%
Oppo: 24.2%

[Tnetennba]

15 minutes ago, Quin said:

CHGO did their ideal lineup (i.e. everyone performing to their talent level) broadcast two weeks ago and it was along these lines.

1. TA - R
2. Benintendi - L
3. Robert - R
4. Eloy - R
5. Grandal - S
6. Vaughn - R
7. Moncada - S
8. Colas / Sheets - L
9. Andrus - R

This would be pretty close to my ideal lineup. Grandal, Vaughn and Moncada could all switch spots depending on how they perform.

Maybe it's the Moncada homer in me, but I have more faith that he bounces back than Yaz finding any previous form.  I have a hard time putting Yaz higher than 7th in any lineup.