Batting Order

[chw42]

11 minutes ago, Quin said:

I hope the shift changes help Yoan. Looking at his spray chart, he hits so much up the middle, more than I remember. Here's his batted ball profile:

Pull: 34.7%
Straight: 41.1%
Oppo: 24.2%

I feel like the new shift changes don't help lefties who go up the middle as much as lefties that are strictly pull hitters. They can still put a SS right next to 2nd base. They just can't put the 2B in the outfield. 

[VAfan]

Moncada has to prove it more than anyone else after last year.  

Frankly, Andrus was the Sox' third best hitter during his time on the team.  

What that means for the lineup I don't know.  But I'm going to defer to Grifol. I'm sure he'll have his reasons for how he lines guys up, and we may not be privy to them.  

The only important thing about the lineup, really, is that the best players stay healthy and play.  The order is much less significant. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by VAfan

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

23 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Yeah, no team good at what they do pencils him in any higher than 7th to start.  Once he proves himself he gradually gets gets raises higher in the order.  I hope they don’t platoon him until he shows he can’t handle lefties, but would understand why they might ease him in there too. 

What does that even mean ? All I heard all winter from the naysayers was we hardly knew anything about his defense, his K rate and his pitch recognition. Really it's ok to be excited about him. I know Moncada has disappointed.I know Eloy and Robert are always injured. I know we forced a guy who was supposed to be our 5th best player by now out the door because unfortunately he was still our best player.

If you want to win games early and often you put your best hitters at the top and middle of the order. Those guys are Tim , Benintendi, Eloy, Robert, Vaughn and Colas , not necessarily in that order.

We waited on Colas to play RF . He's here now , the lefty masher we've wanted forever along with Benintendi and maybe a better, healthier Grandal. If the Sox are going to improve enough against RHP the lefty hitters have to come through.

Last year the Sox had injuries, bad years , couldn't play defense, couldn't hit HRs , couldn't hit for power and had a manager past his prime forced into service by the octogenarian meddling owner and all that combined with Covid and the strike, to ruin a promising rebuild.

Now the shift is banned, giving LH pull hitters a shot to be better and all hitters who put the ball in play more opportunities .

I don't know about you but it's time to wake up from the nap and malaise of baseball conversatism and push the envelop a little bit and trust the savage to be a savage. We've waited on the rest of the core to be good and reach their potentials for years now. Let's not slow play this hand any more. Time to ram the talent down the rest of the leagues' throat and make the Guardians and the rest of baseball  pay for for mocking us last year.

Edited March 14, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Bob Sacamano]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

What does that even mean ? All I heard all winter from the naysayers was we hardly knew anything about his defense, his K rate and his pitch recognition. Really it's ok to be excited about him. I know Moncada has disappointed.I know Eloy and Robert are always injured. I know we forced a guy who was supposed to be our 5th best player by now out the door because unfortunately he was still our best player.

If you want to win games early and often you put your best hitters at the top and middle of the order. Those guys are Tim , Benintendi, Eloy, Robert, Vaughn and Colas , not necessarily in that order.

We waited on Colas to play RF . He's here now , the lefty masher we've wanted forever along with Benintendi and maybe a better, healthier Grandal. If the Sox are going to improve enough against RHP the lefty hitters have to come through.

Last year the Sox had injuries, bad years , couldn't play defense, couldn't hit HRs , couldn't hit for power and had a manager past his prime forced into service by the octogenarian meddling owner and all that combined with Covid and the strike, to ruin a promising rebuild.

Now the shift is banned giving LH pull hitters a shot to be better they they have been.

I don't know about you but it's time to wake up from the nap of baseball conversatism and push the envelop a little bit and trust the savage to be a savage. We've waited on the rest of the core to be good and reach their potentials for years now. Let's not slow play this hand any more.

It’s. Spring. Training. 
 

Nothing wrong with him hitting 7th or 8th and adjusting if he’s hitting.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 3/12/2023 at 12:12 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

If Colas proves himself that’s totally fine, but you don’t start the season with batting anywhere but the bottom 3rd of the lineup.  And he may not end up a platoon bat (I’m optimistic he won’t), but it’s only natural to give him some rope to start the year against LHP.

Too conservative but if that's what Grifol chooses to do I'll defer to it. (Like  I have a choice) . But I trust he'll be batting Colas  higher until Moncada can prove he's still worthy of being high in the order. OBP is a great thing  but to break games open and have big innings guys have to hit. I don't remember too many World Series highlights of rousing walks. That leaves a LH opening in the top six.  Just my interpretation of reading the tea leaves .

Edited March 14, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[fathom]

22 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Too conversation but if that's what Grifol chooses to do I'll defer to it. (Like  I have a choice) . But I trust he'll be batting Colas  higher until Moncada can prove he's still worthy of being high in the order. OBP is a great thing  but to break games open and have big innings guys have to hit. I don't remember too many World Series highlights of rousing walks. That leaves a LH opening in the top six.  Just my interpretation of reading the tea leaves .

I will be shocked if Colas is batting higher than Moncada

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

25 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

It’s. Spring. Training. 
 

Nothing wrong with him hitting 7th or 8th and adjusting if he’s hitting.

So . What.

All I keep hearing is he doesn't have enough ABs at AAA, send him down again ,gain the extra year.

I'm sick of waiting on the guys who were supposed to be great to actually be great.

If you think there's nothing wrong with him batting 7th or 8th why not 6th. Who do you trust to be better ?

All he's done is mash every time he moved up a level. I know the majors is a whole other level that far exceeds all the other levels.

It's time to win and stop dicking around.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

24 minutes ago, fathom said:

I will be shocked if Colas is batting higher than Moncada

I probably will be too but the kid is putting in the work and if he bats 7th or 8th so be it . But I believe that he's the real deal. The only thing Moncada has going for him at this point is his fielding and ability to take a walk.

The Sox desperately need guys to stay on the field and live up to their potential. It hasn't happened yet. If Colas can stay on the field that automatically gives him a shot to be one of the Sox best players.

I'd love to see Eloy, Robert and Moncada finally live up to their billing . The rebuild has deteriorated mainly because they've been disappointing. I'm not going to apologize for trusting Colas to show his stuff from the get go. The core has to step up and make us believe in them again. So I'll just believe in Colas under a new manager and trust what he's done so far at every level despite a long period of rust to shake off and adjusting to every new situation in different places around the world. It's not just the talent, it's how he's already adjusted to every challenge he's faced so far. To me that's very impressive.

Edited March 14, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

It’s. Spring. Training. 
 

Nothing wrong with him hitting 7th or 8th and adjusting if he’s hitting.

This.  

[Bob Sacamano]

38 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So . What.

All I keep hearing is he doesn't have enough ABs at AAA, send him down again ,gain the extra year.

I'm sick of waiting on the guys who were supposed to be great to actually be great.

If you think there's nothing wrong with him batting 7th or 8th why not 6th. Who do you trust to be better ?

All he's done is mash every time he moved up a level. I know the majors is a whole other level that far exceeds all the other levels.

It's time to win and stop dicking around.

 

I think what we will see (note: not what I want exactly) is: 

R Anderson SS

R Robert CF

L Benintendi LF (I would swap him and Robert and when everyone was in camp, this is what they were doing)

R Eloy DH

S Moncada 3B (I think he hits here and they move him down if he's not hitting)

R Vaughn 1B

S Grandal C

L Colas RF (I would at least bat him a spot higher to start and make Grandal prove he isn't toast)

R Andrus 2B

This is basically what they had it as when everyone was in camp.

Edit: actually, this is exactly how even Roster Resource has them lined up.

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

What does that even mean ? All I heard all winter from the naysayers was we hardly knew anything about his defense, his K rate and his pitch recognition. Really it's ok to be excited about him. I know Moncada has disappointed.I know Eloy and Robert are always injured. I know we forced a guy who was supposed to be our 5th best player by now out the door because unfortunately he was still our best player.

If you want to win games early and often you put your best hitters at the top and middle of the order. Those guys are Tim , Benintendi, Eloy, Robert, Vaughn and Colas , not necessarily in that order.

We waited on Colas to play RF . He's here now , the lefty masher we've wanted forever along with Benintendi and maybe a better, healthier Grandal. If the Sox are going to improve enough against RHP the lefty hitters have to come through.

Last year the Sox had injuries, bad years , couldn't play defense, couldn't hit HRs , couldn't hit for power and had a manager past his prime forced into service by the octogenarian meddling owner and all that combined with Covid and the strike, to ruin a promising rebuild.

Now the shift is banned, giving LH pull hitters a shot to be better and all hitters who put the ball in play more opportunities .

I don't know about you but it's time to wake up from the nap and malaise of baseball conversatism and push the envelop a little bit and trust the savage to be a savage. We've waited on the rest of the core to be good and reach their potentials for years now. Let's not slow play this hand any more. Time to ram the talent down the rest of the leagues' throat and make the Guardians and the rest of baseball  pay for for mocking us last year.

The big leagues are an entirely different animal, and no team is going to put a rookie who has never previously faced big league pitching in the middle of their order on Opening Day.  It just doesn’t happen.  All of your hand wringing and brow beating doesn’t change that.  Long nonsensical diatribes of a message board don’t either.  Oscar Colas might have all of the talent in the world, but he hasn’t proven himself on the biggest stage yet.  Any team that has any clue to how to handle talent, get the most out of players, and knows how to win, knows to ease kids in and put them in the best spots to succeed early.  I don’t know why this is such a hard concert for you, or why you refuse to acknowledge conventional wisdom here.  It really isn’t that difficult though. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I think what we will see (note: not what I want exactly) is: 

R Anderson SS

R Robert CF

L Benintendi LF (I would swap him and Robert and when everyone was in camp, this is what they were doing)

R Eloy DH

S Moncada 3B (I think he hits here and they move him down if he's not hitting)

R Vaughn 1B

S Grandal C

L Colas RF (I would at least bat him a spot higher to start and make Grandal prove he isn't toast)

R Andrus 2B

This is basically what they had it as when everyone was in camp.

 

This is what I would do to start the year

[Rowand44]

My only issue is having Colas as a platoon player out of the gate.  The dude is one of your top prospects and smashed left handed pitching last season(only 115 at bats but still), why would you be platooning him for Romy Gonzalez?

[raBBit]

What I would do:

S 3B Moncada
R CF Robert
R DH Eloy
R SS Anderson
L LF Benintendi
R 1B Vaughn
S  C Grandal
L RF Colas
R 2B Andrus
 

What the Sox will do:
R SS Anderson
L LF Benintendi
R DH Eloy
R CF Robert
S 3B Moncada
R 1B Vaughn
S  C  Grandal
L RF Colas/Sheets
R 2B Andrus

[raBBit]

27 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

My only issue is having Colas as a platoon player out of the gate.  The dude is one of your top prospects and smashed left handed pitching last season(only 115 at bats but still), why would you be platooning him for Romy Gonzalez?

Not to worry, Romy won't even make the team.

That said, it is going to drive me crazy when Leury starts in RF against LHP and Sheets gets starts in RF against RHP. 

[flavum]

Anderson, Robert, Benintendi

Jimenez, Moncada, Vaughn

Grandal, Colas, Andrus

[Rowand44]

25 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Not to worry, Romy won't even make the team.

That said, it is going to drive me crazy when Leury starts in RF against LHP and Sheets gets starts in RF against RHP. 

Haha fair enough.  

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

Not to worry, Romy won't even make the team.

That said, it is going to drive me crazy when Leury starts in RF against LHP and Sheets gets starts in RF against RHP. 

At this point, I have to agree. Alberto is going to make it based on Grifol's recent comments (within last couple weeks maybe?) about him. And Romy isn't having a good Spring. Plus, they need to have a real 4th OF, though I have a feeling it may come from outside the organization closer to the end of Spring Training.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[JoeC]

On 3/13/2023 at 1:08 AM, greg775 said:

I want me some Burger and Colas following Timmy, Eloy and Robert. Will Burger and Colas make team?

Only if we pick up Fry to be the closer.

Edited March 14, 2023 by JoeC

[raBBit]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

At this point, I have to agree. Alberto is going to make it based on Grifol's recent comments (within last couple weeks maybe?) about him. And Romy isn't having a good Spring. Plus, they need to have a real 4th OF, though I have a feeling it may come from outside the organization closer to the end of Spring Training.

Yup I agree. I am expecting a bench of: Zavala, Sheets, Leury, Alberto.

Romy is hurting or sore right now and the Sox don't want him rotting away on the bench as the Leury/Alberto spots don't seems to be in line for much playing time. I am guessing Romy will be playing a good deal of outfield in AAA with Burger/Sosa/Yolbert and then two or three of Rivera/Mondou/Gonzalez/Remillard taking up the infield spots. 

[35thstreetswarm]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

What does that even mean ? All I heard all winter from the naysayers was we hardly knew anything about his defense, his K rate and his pitch recognition. Really it's ok to be excited about him. I know Moncada has disappointed.I know Eloy and Robert are always injured. I know we forced a guy who was supposed to be our 5th best player by now out the door because unfortunately he was still our best player.

If you want to win games early and often you put your best hitters at the top and middle of the order. Those guys are Tim , Benintendi, Eloy, Robert, Vaughn and Colas , not necessarily in that order.

We waited on Colas to play RF . He's here now , the lefty masher we've wanted forever along with Benintendi and maybe a better, healthier Grandal. If the Sox are going to improve enough against RHP the lefty hitters have to come through.

Last year the Sox had injuries, bad years , couldn't play defense, couldn't hit HRs , couldn't hit for power and had a manager past his prime forced into service by the octogenarian meddling owner and all that combined with Covid and the strike, to ruin a promising rebuild.

Now the shift is banned, giving LH pull hitters a shot to be better and all hitters who put the ball in play more opportunities .

I don't know about you but it's time to wake up from the nap and malaise of baseball conversatism and push the envelop a little bit and trust the savage to be a savage. We've waited on the rest of the core to be good and reach their potentials for years now. Let's not slow play this hand any more. Time to ram the talent down the rest of the leagues' throat and make the Guardians and the rest of baseball  pay for for mocking us last year.

Sure, if you just assume your conclusion (that Colas will be one of our top hitters his rookie year) then the decision where to put him in the lineup is as easy as you suggest.  The thing is, I think the rest of the baseball world is waiting to see if your conclusion is correct before acting accordingly.  There's plenty of reason to think a rookie will struggle a bit adjusting to MLB pitching. 

[SoCalChiSox]

4 hours ago, fathom said:

I will be shocked if Colas is batting higher than Moncada

If we get the high OBP low slugging Moncada, he should be at 1 (sorry Tim). I expect Colas to eventually be at 5, right behind Jimenez. 

 

[Jerksticks]

You know if those guys are who we want them to be, that’s a 108-110 win lineup easy

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Sure, if you just assume your conclusion (that Colas will be one of our top hitters his rookie year) then the decision where to put him in the lineup is as easy as you suggest.  The thing is, I think the rest of the baseball world is waiting to see if your conclusion is correct before acting accordingly.  There's plenty of reason to think a rookie will struggle a bit adjusting to MLB pitching. 

Look you either think this team can win or you think they won't make the playoffs .If they don't make the playoffs again. That's it, the window is done . Massive trades forth coming with the same group who failed to build the sustained winner and long periods of either sucking or mediocrity with little to sustain anything in the minors.

He will struggle all players struggle . Look what happened last year and those guys aren't rookies. Eloy and Robert have struggled to stay healthy for 3 years or not be good at the same time for extended periods.

Are we better off with Sheets and Hamilton, Romy, Marisnick in the OF ? Do you think we will ruin him ? Do you want to wait a month to see if Moncada can slug over .400 ? Enough babying these guys. Treat them like men. Put expectations on them . Failure is part of the process but some of these guys needs to get their acts together or it's going to be a long next 5 years.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

The big leagues are an entirely different animal, and no team is going to put a rookie who has never previously faced big league pitching in the middle of their order on Opening Day.  It just doesn’t happen.  All of your hand wringing and brow beating doesn’t change that.  Long nonsensical diatribes of a message board don’t either.  Oscar Colas might have all of the talent in the world, but he hasn’t proven himself on the biggest stage yet.  Any team that has any clue to how to handle talent, get the most out of players, and knows how to win, knows to ease kids in and put them in the best spots to succeed early.  I don’t know why this is such a hard concert for you, or why you refuse to acknowledge conventional wisdom here.  It really isn’t that difficult though. 

Bobby Witt Jr. Batted 1-6 in all but 34 of his 632 PA's the majority coming 1-3

Julio Rodriguez all but 78 of his 560 PA's came 1-6 , vast majority came 1-3

Steven Kwan 638 PA all but 55 came 1-6 with 576 either 1 or 2

Adley Rutschman 470 PA , all but 9 came batting 1-6

Jeremy Pena 3rd rd. draft pick , slick fielder not expected to be a top hitter in a strong veteran lineup with players who have consistently shown how good they are in a long competitive window .253, .289, .426 , .715 not that impressive except for the 22 HR. July and August struggled pretty bad. STill 321 PA 1-6,  227 7-9

Doesn't seem to me like there was much conventional wisdom going on for the top vote getters for ROY in the AL.

This is so simple and only an idiotic would think otherwise wisdom of yours is just a pathetic attempt use anecdotal evidence to make to make you appear wise. Back it up with facts or shut up.

Yep no team did it. It just didn't happen .