4/12 - Sox @ Twins: Let’s Win the Series

[harkness99]

just not going to have much of a chance with these injuries year after year....

 

 

[ChiSox59]

3 hours ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Good question. Was wondering the same myself. This dude got the biggest free agent deal in Sox history and will likely not even hit 25 homers over the life of the contract. 

 

Benintendi wasn’t signed to hit home runs. You can debate the signing all you’d like, but FAs are expensive. Sox needed left handed hitting OF that could catch the ball. Nimmo went for $160 some million, then there was Benintendi at less than half the cost. The move by itself was fine, even if not exciting. $15M AAV isn’t really that much money in todays game. He’ll probably be 1.5-2.5 fWAR play next 3 years, and that’s fine. Far from the real problem here. The real problem is our core offensive players can’t stay on the field and the FO didn’t do anything to finish the roster. We needed better health than 22, and it certainly hasn’t been a good start in that regard. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by ChiSox59

[Vote4Pedro]

5 hours ago, fathom said:

If not for the outfield aspect, I’d say keep him up over Romy

You don’t need Romy once everyone is healthy if you believe Eloy can play once or twice a week in the OF without hurting himself or others ?

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Benintendi wasn’t signed to hit home runs. You can debate the signing all you’d like, but FAs are expensive. Sox needed left handed hitting OF that could catch the ball. Nimmo went for $160 some million, then there was Benintendi at less than half the cost. The move by itself was fine, even if not exciting. $15M AAV isn’t really that much money in todays game. He’ll probably be 1.5-2.5 fWAR play next 3 years, and that’s fine. Far from the real problem here. The real problem is our core offensive players can’t stay on the field and the FO didn’t do anything to finish the roster. We needed better health than 22, and it certainly hasn’t been a good start in that regard. 

He costs far more than the entire Guardians' outfield of Kwan Straw and Gonzalez. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

He costs far more than the entire Guardians' outfield of Kwan Straw and Gonzalez. 

You do realize MLB suppresses the pay of players in the first six years of their career, no? It’s not like this is some new phenomenon. The fact that they will gladly pay comparatively outlandish sums when a player is freed from this control shows that those players are underpaid, not the other way around.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

You do realize MLB suppresses the pay of players in the first six years of their career, no? It’s not like this is some new phenomenon. The fact that they will gladly pay comparatively outlandish sums when a player is freed from this control shows that those players are underpaid, not the other way around.

The point was the smartest teams invest in scouting/evaluation/drafting/int'l so they don't have to pay Benintendi that much money. 

Or they pick the perfect players off the scrap heap that fit with their rosters like the Rays and Dodgers instead of buying at max value in FA. 

That strategy would still allow both franchises to realistically have a shot at an Ohtani or B. Reynolds when they're traded or go on the market. 

The White Sox don't even have a seat at the table... 

 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

Sorry but there’s no way 15 per year in the modern market is a bad deal. Sure it would be ideal if a team never had to sign free agents, but that isn’t very realistic is it. 

[Lip Man 1]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The point was the smartest teams invest in scouting/evaluation/drafting/int'l so they don't have to pay Benintendi that much money. 

Or they pick the perfect players off the scrap heap that fit with their rosters like the Rays and Dodgers instead of buying at max value in FA. 

That strategy would still allow both franchises to realistically have a shot at an Ohtani or B. Reynolds when they're traded or go on the market. 

The White Sox don't even have a seat at the table... 

 

The do have a seat at the table...the kids table.

[wegner]

2 hours ago, Vote4Pedro said:

You don’t need Romy once everyone is healthy if you believe Eloy can play once or twice a week in the OF without hurting himself or others ?

I forgot already...how did Eloy hurt himself this time?

[4uckOffCommieScum]

Dodgers are paying 15 million a year to Chris Taylor, a 32 year old with 15.3 career WAR coming off a 0.5 WAR season. The Sox are paying a 28 year old with 15.3 career WAR 15 million coming off a 3.4 season. Which team has better allocated that 15 per?

[greg775]

2 hours ago, Vote4Pedro said:

You don’t need Romy once everyone is healthy if you believe Eloy can play once or twice a week in the OF without hurting himself or others ?

Eloy cannot stay healthy. I'm convinced. He's a complete bust. ... Scary though is Timmy. Starting to get hurt ... a lot. Sox injury situation is so sad. Just two weeks in and so many injuries.

[caulfield12]

44 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Dodgers are paying 15 million a year to Chris Taylor, a 32 year old with 15.3 career WAR coming off a 0.5 WAR season. The Sox are paying a 28 year old with 15.3 career WAR 15 million coming off a 3.4 season. Which team has better allocated that 15 per?

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/andrew-benintendi/17901/stats?position=OF

That same player but up a 3.1 fWAR combined over his previous 2 1/2 seasons.

You could have made the exact same argument for AJ Pollock's 3.1 fWAR in 2021. 

The Yankees also had an historic offensive season last year.  That's going to lift up nearly every member of the starting lineup... just as a rising market tide floats all boats/stocks in its wake. 

 

Point 2, Taylor still provides positional flexibility and will be needed with Lux down.   Most importantly, he doesn't stop LAvfrom. going after Shohei Ohtani at the trade deadline or into the off season. 

Those are pennies on. the dollar for LA compared to 50 to 75 cents to the White Sox. 

[caulfield12]

Just watched the highlights…Sheets falling down because he took the incorrect route to the Jeffers ball and couldn’t adjust athletically is like rubbing salt into the wound.

You almost have to see it to believe it, it was that level of defensive incompetence.

Edited April 13, 2023 by caulfield12

[T R U]

9 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Benintendi wasn’t signed to hit home runs. You can debate the signing all you’d like, but FAs are expensive. Sox needed left handed hitting OF that could catch the ball. Nimmo went for $160 some million, then there was Benintendi at less than half the cost. The move by itself was fine, even if not exciting. $15M AAV isn’t really that much money in todays game. He’ll probably be 1.5-2.5 fWAR play next 3 years, and that’s fine. Far from the real problem here. The real problem is our core offensive players can’t stay on the field and the FO didn’t do anything to finish the roster. We needed better health than 22, and it certainly hasn’t been a good start in that regard. 

Hopefully we never have to see him batting 3rd again 

[Dick Allen]

The other big problem with this roster is it needs some changing, but Hahn can't trade anybody. Remember, he tried adding at the deadline, but couldn't, and he was supposedly more disappointed than us. Then said trades were going to be the big thing during the offseason. When he couldn't do anything at the Winter Meetings, he gave us the old,coming weeks and months line, even saying trades could occur during spring training. Nothing. No one will give them any value for their players. It is what is always is with this regime. Hope for a miracle

 

I doubt there is an executive in professional sports that deserves to lose his job based on performance more than Hahn. He makes Gar Forman and Phil Emery look at least average.. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Dick Allen

[pcq]

Go O's!!

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

The other big problem with this roster is it needs some changing, but Hahn can't trade anybody. Remember, he tried adding at the deadline, but couldn't, and he was supposedly more disappointed than us. Then said trades were going to be the big thing during the offseason. When he couldn't do anything at the Winter Meetings, he gave us the old,coming weeks and months line, even saying trades could occur during spring training. Nothing. No one will give them any value for their players. It is what is always is with this regime. Hope for a miracle

 

I doubt there is an executive in professional sports that deserves to lose his job based on performance more than Hahn. He makes Gar Forman and Phil Emery look at least average.. 

Even if they do move Giolito, Clevinger and Lynn, the returns wouldn't be huge unless they suddenly dominate over the next two months...but then Hahn would look like an idiot White Flagging it yet again when they would likely be at least competitive with 2/3 pending FA starters throwing well along with Cease/Kopech. 

Grandal will get even less and then you have Seby/Perez playing everyday.  At least it would be cost efficient. 

That leaves Hendriks, Lopez (need to trade if you can't extend), Graveman Bummer and maybe Kelly but only a dominant/cheap Reynaldo gets you much back there other than salary dumps. 

(Ofc TA7, Kopech, Jimenez and Cease each have to be addressed as well... extend or try to trade at max value.) 

Just assuming they don't get what they want for Moncada... it would be super embarrassing to trade him and Montgomery or Ramos are the only ones capable of replacing him long-term.  Stuck with for 2024. 

Benintendi likewise would be super embarrassing to trade after his deal and you're also going to give up talent or a cash subsidy the way things are headed. 

 

Depressing.  A dumpster or tire fire. 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by caulfield12

[Tnetennba]

8 hours ago, wegner said:

I forgot already...how did Eloy hurt himself this time?

Running to 1st?

[wegner]

35 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Running to 1st?

That was my guess as well but I don't really remember.  He is....Fragilay.....

 

[chw42]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/andrew-benintendi/17901/stats?position=OF

That same player but up a 3.1 fWAR combined over his previous 2 1/2 seasons.

You could have made the exact same argument for AJ Pollock's 3.1 fWAR in 2021. 

The Yankees also had an historic offensive season last year.  That's going to lift up nearly every member of the starting lineup... just as a rising market tide floats all boats/stocks in its wake. 

 

Point 2, Taylor still provides positional flexibility and will be needed with Lux down.   Most importantly, he doesn't stop LAvfrom. going after Shohei Ohtani at the trade deadline or into the off season. 

Those are pennies on. the dollar for LA compared to 50 to 75 cents to the White Sox. 

Yeah except Benintendi actually hit better with the mighty Royals lineup than the Yankees lineup...

[SonofaRoache]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The other big problem with this roster is it needs some changing, but Hahn can't trade anybody. Remember, he tried adding at the deadline, but couldn't, and he was supposedly more disappointed than us. Then said trades were going to be the big thing during the offseason. When he couldn't do anything at the Winter Meetings, he gave us the old,coming weeks and months line, even saying trades could occur during spring training. Nothing. No one will give them any value for their players. It is what is always is with this regime. Hope for a miracle

 

I doubt there is an executive in professional sports that deserves to lose his job based on performance more than Hahn. He makes Gar Forman and Phil Emery look at least average.. 

Hahn was just passing time. No one is trading anything of value for Eloy or Yoan. We aren't trading Tim, Robert, and Vaughn. The only reasonable trade piece is Gio who needs a new deal. Hahn is terrible at his job and blew his money on all of the bullpen arms syatting with Kelvin Herrera. He's a moron. 

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Yeah except Benintendi actually hit better with the mighty Royals lineup than the Yankees lineup...

Sox just need Benintendi to be himself.  .275/.345/.400 would be a productive hitter from the left side for the Sox while being a solid OF.  Its not sexy by any means, but sort of exactly what the Sox need if he can stay in the lineup. 

Seems like just because Beni eclipsed Grandal's contract by $2M as the largest in franchise history, many Sox fans are expecting a different player than he is.  At the end of the day, on an AAV basis he is around the 100th highest paid player in the game.  Not exactly superstar level, especially when considering all younger and solid FAs are expensive these days. 

[LittleHurtCG]

14 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Benintendi wasn’t signed to hit home runs. You can debate the signing all you’d like, but FAs are expensive. Sox needed left handed hitting OF that could catch the ball. Nimmo went for $160 some million, then there was Benintendi at less than half the cost. The move by itself was fine, even if not exciting. $15M AAV isn’t really that much money in todays game. He’ll probably be 1.5-2.5 fWAR play next 3 years, and that’s fine. Far from the real problem here. The real problem is our core offensive players can’t stay on the field and the FO didn’t do anything to finish the roster. We needed better health than 22, and it certainly hasn’t been a good start in that regard. 

Give me one Bryce Harper over the combination of Benintendi, Kuechel, and Grandal. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by LittleHurtCG

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Give me one Bryce Harper over the combination of Benintendi, Kuechel, and Grandal. 

Wouldn’t we all? Unfortunately the team is owned by Jerry Reinsdorf for now. 

[wegner]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Wouldn’t we all? Unfortunately the team is owned by Jerry Reinsdorf for now. 

Well sure but hindsight is 2020 isn't it.  Who knew that signing a left handed power hitting superstar RF would have been a good idea, especially one who actually seemed to want to play here??  Plus he was already 26 years old.