Merkin with pretty honest assessment

[caulfield12]

https://www.mlb.com/news/white-sox-discuss-shaking-off-slow-start

Ofc we knew that Hendriks and Crochet would be cast in the role of midseason saviors... but will it be another case of too little, too late? 

Effort is better... but execution and fundamentals other the really nice relay play and Robert being back closer to 100% are still lacking.  Andrus has lost another step seemingly. 

Alberto Burger Vaughn Sheets are each flawed defenders and the one plus athlete off the bench Romy can't hit. 

[vilehoopster]

What’s the deal on Crochet? In early spring training it was he’d be back by May. Then when the actual season started it was mid-May. Now according to that Merkin article it late May or early June. It’s s%*# like this that drives me crazy.

Why don’t our guys get better. Look at Moncada, when we 1st heard, it was a game of the Minnesota series, then the entire series. Isn’t the latest now that Moncada will miss the Baltimore series. 
 

Does it ever happen the other way: where a player comes back earlier than expected from an injury, ever?

[Lip Man 1]

17 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

What’s the deal on Crochet? In early spring training it was he’d be back by May. Then when the actual season started it was mid-May. Now according to that Merkin article it late May or early June. It’s s%*# like this that drives me crazy.

Why don’t our guys get better. Look at Moncada, when we 1st heard, it was a game of the Minnesota series, then the entire series. Isn’t the latest now that Moncada will miss the Baltimore series. 
 

Does it ever happen the other way: where a player comes back earlier than expected from an injury, ever?

Reading the story I sense was from the way he wrote what he did that he wasn't necessarily referring to Crochet as "late May-early June" that the time frame was fluid for both Hendriks and Crochet. I'm guessing Hendriks would be more June. 

[Dick Allen]

Go figure,the Sox are banking on a reliever a year from TJ to be one of their saviors. 

 

Do they look at the performance of most pitchers in that time frame after that surgery? 

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Go figure,the Sox are banking on a reliever a year from TJ to be one of their saviors. 

 

Do they look at the performance of most pitchers in that time frame after that surgery? 

Clevinger just the most recent example of not being ready until Year 2... 

[Texsox]

I'm wondering how many MLB players are one or two years recovering from major injuries. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

When Lynn came back from TJS he made 33 starts with a 3.43 ERA

[Snopek]

Hahn’s just playing 3D chess over here and getting a jump on the trade deadline. Moncada, Eloy, TA, Crochet and Hendriks? Great acquisitions and the sign of a great GM.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I'm wondering how many MLB players are one or two years recovering from major injuries. 

Major injuries and surgeries counting on the 1st year back isn't advisable for certain parts of the body.

Robert didn't look as good last year in the OF, some due to a bout with dizziness. This year he looks much better, faster. Can't really count on Crochet for much of anything not only because of TJS but his whole future may be clouded if he chooses to continue as a starting pitcher. By the time he builds up his arm to where he can become an effective SP he might have 2 years left on his Sox contract and be pitching as a starter for the 1st time in MLB on an arm that may not be built to be a SP. He should just stay a reliever and focus on his health and earning his money that way.

[T R U]

“I don’t like that term early. It’s not early,” Grifol said. “It’s a game. It’s a Major League Baseball game that we’ve got to win, whether it’s April 1 or freaking September-something.”

Yes, this. Too much "Oh its only 13 games relax" floating around here when the reality is were sinking into a hole that is going to require excellent baseball to get out of.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, T R U said:

“I don’t like that term early. It’s not early,” Grifol said. “It’s a game. It’s a Major League Baseball game that we’ve got to win, whether it’s April 1 or freaking September-something.”

Yes, this. Too much "Oh its only 13 games relax" floating around here when the reality is were sinking into a hole that is going to require excellent baseball to get out of.

But it IS only 13 games.  92% of the season is left.  Of course if the Sox keep losing series for another month straight, they're going find themselves in a really tough spot.  April is going to be rough; we knew that.  I wouldn't exactly expect the Sox to do any better than .500ish in the 19 games between between now and 5/4 when they have 3 vs BAL, 3 vs. PHIL, 3 @ TB, 3 @ TOR, 4 vs. TB, and 3 vs. MN.  They need to come out that stretch not worse than 13-19.  Even at that point, they still have over 80% of the season left and the May and June schedules are quite favorable for the Sox.  The season certainly will not be over, though I am sure most of the fanbase will think so.  

Obviously Pedro's point is valid - each game counts the same.  The Sox certainly should look at that way, but as fans it definitely is early.  Of course, none of it matters if the best players on the team cannot stay healthy.  

[Dick Allen]

If the White Sox schedule is tough and they can't win series against good teams, first, how are they going to make the playoffs. Second, what difference would it make if they can't win a series vs. a better team since the better teams are the ones in the playoffs.

[T R U]

15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

But it IS only 13 games.  92% of the season is left.  Of course if the Sox keep losing series for another month straight, they're going find themselves in a really tough spot.  April is going to be rough; we knew that.  I wouldn't exactly expect the Sox to do any better than .500ish in the 19 games between between now and 5/4 when they have 3 vs BAL, 3 vs. PHIL, 3 @ TB, 3 @ TOR, 4 vs. TB, and 3 vs. MN.  They need to come out that stretch not worse than 13-19.  Even at that point, they still have over 80% of the season left and the May and June schedules are quite favorable for the Sox.  The season certainly will not be over, though I am sure most of the fanbase will think so.  

Obviously Pedro's point is valid - each game counts the same.  The Sox certainly should look at that way, but as fans it definitely is early.  Of course, none of it matters if the best players on the team cannot stay healthy.  

Well I don't know about you, but when I watch this team im definitely worried because they cant stay healthy and they aren't playing well. Already 4 games back, they are being put in a position where they will have to play unachievable baseball to catch up depending on how bad it gets this early.

Just spent all of last season saying "Its early, were only a few games back" and that lasted all year until they faded away to end the season.

[Balta1701]

47 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

When Lynn came back from TJS he made 33 starts with a 3.43 ERA

Lance Lynn had his surgery on November 10, 2015. He next pitched in a big league game on April 6, 2017 - nearly 17 months later.

Mid May would have Crochet pitching in the big leagues 13 months after his surgery.

[EloyJenkins]

24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Lance Lynn had his surgery on November 10, 2015. He next pitched in a big league game on April 6, 2017 - nearly 17 months later.

Mid May would have Crochet pitching in the big leagues 13 months after his surgery.

Every athlete is different. I hate comparing other pitchers especially. Is lynn 6'6" with a 100mph heater and a 1 inning reliever? 

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Every athlete is different. I hate comparing other pitchers especially. Is lynn 6'6" with a 100mph heater and a 1 inning reliever? 

Which is more concerning. You get the velo back but it normally takes a little time. What you do lose is command. Crochet's command was shaky before the surgery. When he comes back, it probably will not be even what it was for a while. Expecting much from him this season is not what true contenders do. It is what fake contenders do. 

[Snopek]

37 minutes ago, T R U said:

Well I don't know about you, but when I watch this team im definitely worried because they cant stay healthy and they aren't playing well. Already 4 games back, they are being put in a position where they will have to play unachievable baseball to catch up depending on how bad it gets this early.

Just spent all of last season saying "Its early, were only a few games back" and that lasted all year until they faded away to end the season.

Yeah, if we didn't do this whole damn thing already all of last season, I think fans might be willing to give it a little more time. But I think a lot of fans are just drained from last season that it's hard to do the "wait till they get healthy/hot" thing again. Especially when they're experiencing a lot of the same issues they did last year.

[ChiSox59]

49 minutes ago, T R U said:

Well I don't know about you, but when I watch this team im definitely worried because they cant stay healthy and they aren't playing well. Already 4 games back, they are being put in a position where they will have to play unachievable baseball to catch up depending on how bad it gets this early.

Just spent all of last season saying "Its early, were only a few games back" and that lasted all year until they faded away to end the season.

Yeah, I don't agree that an April deficit in the standings requires unachievable baseball to get back into the race.  Especially when the Sox have already played several of their toughest series in April.  The Sox toughest scheduling month is April.  And the Twins and Guardians still aren't very good.

I do definitely agree that the Sox have played some terrible baseball 13 games in, and the injuries so far are super discouraging. That said, Eloy and Moncada should both be back this weekend.  TA should be back in 2 weeks.  Not exactly crippling injuries, yet.  But yes, I definitely agree that this season will be very tough for the Sox to compete if those 3 + Robert miss ~half the season like they did in 2022.  Imagine everyone agrees on that. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by ChiSox59

[ChiSox59]

7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Which is more concerning. You get the velo back but it normally takes a little time. What you do lose is command. Crochet's command was shaky before the surgery. When he comes back, it probably will not be even what it was for a while. Expecting much from him this season is not what true contenders do. It is what fake contenders do. 

Where did the Sox say they were expecting a ton from Crochet in 2023?  Writers talk about it, because well, Crochet has been mostly nasty when healthy.  If he is healthy enough to pitch, he'll pitch.  He might not be 100% back in terms of stuff, but even 80% of Crochet is better than most left handed relievers.  They also have Bummer who is also a pretty good lefty himself.  I don't really think the Sox need to come out with definitive statements like  "we expect nothing from Garrett this season" or "we need Crochet to be our 8th inning guy or were doomed".  What does that accomplish?   

[SCCWS]

Even with some minor injuries to Eloy and Moncada and a more serious injury to TA,  the Sox have been hitting the ball pretty well.  I am concerned about BB since the Sox continue to not be patient at the plate. But outside of Cease the starters and bullpen have struggled. I do hope the offensive will be good once the lineup is restored but further injuries will hurt because the bench seems pretty weak. The Pitching needs to come around or the Sox will really struggle since most of the starters and relievers have been up and down. 

[Dick Allen]

22 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Where did the Sox say they were expecting a ton from Crochet in 2023?  Writers talk about it, because well, Crochet has been mostly nasty when healthy.  If he is healthy enough to pitch, he'll pitch.  He might not be 100% back in terms of stuff, but even 80% of Crochet is better than most left handed relievers.  They also have Bummer who is also a pretty good lefty himself.  I don't really think the Sox need to come out with definitive statements like  "we expect nothing from Garrett this season" or "we need Crochet to be our 8th inning guy or were doomed".  What does that accomplish?   

I think anything better than Tanner Banks or Diekman is gravy for him  this year.  They were gushing about him in spring training. And will gush about him again when he's back. The fact of the matter is, if they are counting on anything but mediocrity from him this season, they are knuckleheads.

[Snopek]

26 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yeah, I don't agree that an April deficit in the standings requires unachievable baseball to get back into the race.  Especially when the Sox have already played several of their toughest series in April.  The Sox toughest scheduling month is April.  And the Twins and Guardians still aren't very good.

I do definitely agree that the Sox have played some terrible baseball 13 games in, and the injuries so far are super discouraging. That said, Eloy and Moncada should both be back this weekend.  TA should be back in 2 weeks.  Not exactly crippling injuries, yet.  But yes, I definitely agree that this season will be very tough for the Sox to compete if those 3 + Robert miss ~half the season like they did in 2022.  Imagine everyone agrees on that. 

I still don't have a read on the Guardians and don't know how sustainable their success is, but I'm willing to buy the Twins. Joe Ryan and Pablo Lopez look like they've made huge strides with legit changes and Maeda hasn't looked all that rusty thus far. Plus, they have Polanco, Kirilloff, Royce Lewis, Kepler and Gallo all coming back. Some of those names are meh, but that's still depth that the Sox can only dream of as they trot Hanser Alberto out there. Sure, there are some if's with the Twins (esp health-wise), but every team has those. Until Buxton, Correa and the rotation actually break down for an extended period of time, they look like the team to beat in the division to me.

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, Snopek said:

I still don't have a read on the Guardians and don't know how sustainable their success is, but I'm willing to buy the Twins. Joe Ryan and Pablo Lopez look like they've made huge strides with legit changes and Maeda hasn't looked all that rusty thus far. Plus, they have Polanco, Kirilloff, Royce Lewis, Kepler and Gallo all coming back. Some of those names are meh, but that's still depth that the Sox can only dream of as they trot Hanser Alberto out there. Sure, there are some if's with the Twins (esp health-wise), but every team has those. Until Buxton, Correa and the rotation actually break down for an extended period of time, they look like the team to beat in the division to me.

Yeah, the Twins do look good.  I live in MN (have most my life) - all my good friends are Twins fans, and I actually know some folks in the org.  I watch the Twins a lot; pretty much whenever the Sox aren't playing and they are.  They do look good in the early going, but until last night, the offense hasn't been great.  They've been living on winning on good pitching against either bad teams (KC and Miami) and teams not playing good baseball (White Sox and Astros).  Truth be told, definitely expected them to go into the Bronx and get trounced, but anything but that happened last night.  We'll see how the next three go.

But the Twins are every bit as injury prone - if not more - than the Sox.  Buxton will get hurt.  Just a matter of when.  Correa's ankle obviously isn't well, and that's not even what has been bugging him.  Without those 2, the offense is pretty meh.  I mean, look at those lineups they were sporting against the Sox, and now Farmer is down at least a month.  But the FO did a great job in adding depth players that have already been needed quite a bit - much better than the Sox.

But the Twins are still mostly the same team last year that was even worse than the Sox.  Lopez looks legit, but let's not act like they didn't give up a big piece from their MLB club to get him.  I am a Joe Ryan fan to the extent I can be for a Twin - still cannot believe the beloved Rays FO gave him up for 2 months of 40 YO Nelson Cruz.  But their rotation has lots of injury question marks - like most do.  Maeda is already hurting, he is getting his start this weekend skipped.  BUt Twins do have some arms they can rely on - Winder, SWR, Ober, Varland.  Definitely more upper minors SP than the Sox.  

I think it is totally fair to call teh Twins the favorite in ALC at this point.  An early 4 game lead is impressive.  But this isn't a team that is going to run away with the division, IMO. 

 

[BigHurt3515]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Lance Lynn had his surgery on November 10, 2015. He next pitched in a big league game on April 6, 2017 - nearly 17 months later.

Mid May would have Crochet pitching in the big leagues 13 months after his surgery.

Well that was the Cardinals 3rd game of the season. Who is to say if he was ready to go in January? He also pitched 5 games in spring training that year so obviously he was ready to go 15 or so months post surgery

[caulfield12]

35 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yeah, the Twins do look good.  I live in MN (have most my life) - all my good friends are Twins fans, and I actually know some folks in the org.  I watch the Twins a lot; pretty much whenever the Sox aren't playing and they are.  They do look good in the early going, but until last night, the offense hasn't been great.  They've been living on winning on good pitching against either bad teams (KC and Miami) and teams not playing good baseball (White Sox and Astros).  Truth be told, definitely expected them to go into the Bronx and get trounced, but anything but that happened last night.  We'll see how the next three go.

But the Twins are every bit as injury prone - if not more - than the Sox.  Buxton will get hurt.  Just a matter of when.  Correa's ankle obviously isn't well, and that's not even what has been bugging him.  Without those 2, the offense is pretty meh.  I mean, look at those lineups they were sporting against the Sox, and now Farmer is down at least a month.  But the FO did a great job in adding depth players that have already been needed quite a bit - much better than the Sox.

But the Twins are still mostly the same team last year that was even worse than the Sox.  Lopez looks legit, but let's not act like they didn't give up a big piece from their MLB club to get him.  I am a Joe Ryan fan to the extent I can be for a Twin - still cannot believe the beloved Rays FO gave him up for 2 months of 40 YO Nelson Cruz.  But their rotation has lots of injury question marks - like most do.  Maeda is already hurting, he is getting his start this weekend skipped.  BUt Twins do have some arms they can rely on - Winder, SWR, Ober, Varland.  Definitely more upper minors SP than the Sox.  

I think it is totally fair to call teh Twins the favorite in ALC at this point.  An early 4 game lead is impressive.  But this isn't a team that is going to run away with the division, IMO. 

 

If Crochet can make it back that fast,  so can Chris Paddack.