The Pedro Hire

[caulfield12]

38 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Yeah, the only way one would arrive at a 144 game average would be if they cherry picked the four years from 2003-2006.  Crede played 798 games over 9 season for the Sox.  I'm not great at math, but that's not even a 90 game average for his Sox career.

Why would we count those first three years when he was up and down and wasn't established as a regular? 

Just like TA7 his rookie year didn't have the opportunity to play the full year at the big league level. 

Same with. Rowand establishing himself. 

The point was how many games per season did they played per year when they were the established starter from the get go. 

Adding in the years they weren't hurt but unable to play because of the manager's decision (could do the same with Viciedo and Ozzie)  tells one what exactly about their health? 

Pretty much nothing. 

 

By that argument...I should have screwed them all over by counting only 48 out of 60 out of 162 as missing well more than half the season (48/162) instead of giving them credit for missing very few games that year and projecting the same pace out over 162... Abreu missed none and Anderson 12/60.

Just one example that made Eloy Robert and Moncada actually look better. 

Should I have included 2023 as well... lol? 

Three of those guys would look even worse again. 

[Quin]

At this rate, I'm waiting for Caulfield to tell us that Fernando Tatis is a paragon of health.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Snopek said:

Old man yelling statistics at cloud is a new one for me.

Reported for ageism to moderators. 

 

Basically, TA7 Rowand Quentin played similar number of games per year and neither one of those is/was close to being described as the franchise cornerstone and meriting a $175-225 million FA contract in 2000's adjusted constant dollars. 

They were both consistently described as reckless and/or injury prone. 

 

Basically the Sox went from the best in the business missing the least amount of days under Schneider to being a consensus Bottom 5 team in baseball under Hahn and various trainers like Ball and Thomas that were mistreated or discriminated against by the organization. 

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

On the subject of the thread title... a rookie manager 2 weeks into the season.

Ain't his fault the roster has holes and the bullpen sucks. This team isn't good, and its not something a rookie manager can overcome with savvy game strategy. 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, Quin said:

At this rate, I'm waiting for Caulfield to tell us that Fernando Tatis is a paragon of health.

Obviously he's the most high risk, yet highest ceiling player in baseball (if he was at SS and not protected in RF).   Even then, he's top 5-10 in baseball when he can stay on the field like 2020 and most of 2021. 

But the Padres have hardly "lost" money on that investment if you just go by fWAR per salary paid from his rookie year through today. 

What's really going to matter is if they can win a championship in. the next decade or not. 

[Kyyle23]

21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why would we count those first three years when he was up and down and wasn't established as a regular? 

Just like TA7 his rookie year didn't have the opportunity to play the full year at the big league level. 

Same with. Rowand establishing himself. 

The point was how many games per season did they played per year when they were the established starter from the get go. 

Adding in the years they weren't hurt but unable to play because of the manager's decision (could do the same with Viciedo and Ozzie)  tells one what exactly about their health? 

Pretty much nothing. 

 

By that argument...I should have screwed them all over by counting only 48 out of 60 out of 162 as missing well more than half the season (48/162) instead of giving them credit for missing very few games that year and projecting the same pace out over 162... Abreu missed none and Anderson 12/60.

Just one example that made Eloy Robert and Moncada actually look better. 

Should I have included 2023 as well... lol? 

Three of those guys would look even worse again. 

We……did not count those first three years.

[elrockinMT]

I thought we might give the blame game a rest for awhile but 16 games into the season   Here we are. Jerry, Kenny, Rick, name your player or players of the day and now the manager. I tell you what I will call Tony LaRussa and ask him what he thinks. I have calls into him dating back awhile now and I expect a call back soon

[Quin]

3 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

We……did not count those first three years.

We doin' Terrence Howard math now.

[soxrwhite]

4 hours ago, elrockinMT said:

I thought we might give the blame game a rest for awhile but 16 games into the season   Here we are. Jerry, Kenny, Rick, name your player or players of the day and now the manager. I tell you what I will call Tony LaRussa and ask him what he thinks. I have calls into him dating back awhile now and I expect a call back soon

As soon as he wakes up and sobers up he will call........could be a while.

[lostfan]

7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Why would we count those first three years when he was up and down and wasn't established as a regular? 

Just like TA7 his rookie year didn't have the opportunity to play the full year at the big league level. 

Same with. Rowand establishing himself. 

The point was how many games per season did they played per year when they were the established starter from the get go. 

Adding in the years they weren't hurt but unable to play because of the manager's decision (could do the same with Viciedo and Ozzie)  tells one what exactly about their health? 

Pretty much nothing. 

 

By that argument...I should have screwed them all over by counting only 48 out of 60 out of 162 as missing well more than half the season (48/162) instead of giving them credit for missing very few games that year and projecting the same pace out over 162... Abreu missed none and Anderson 12/60.

Just one example that made Eloy Robert and Moncada actually look better. 

Should I have included 2023 as well... lol? 

Three of those guys would look even worse again. 

bruh you are just saying s%*#. come on.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, lostfan said:

bruh you are just saying s%*#. come on.

It was about PLAYER HEALTH.

Crede and Rowand not being allowed to play/start their first 2-3 seasons because of KW and how hard it was to break into the starting line-up at that time didn't have much if anything at all to do with their health.

(Maybe Rowand's motorcycle accident, one of those offseasons.  There's one exception, but I'm too tired to look up when/where that happened in his career.)

 

We might as well include Moncada coming up for the 2017 postseason and playing in less than 10 games for Boston while we're at it.

 

[Kyyle23]

7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

It was about PLAYER HEALTH.

Crede and Rowand not being allowed to play/start their first 2-3 seasons because of KW and how hard it was to break into the starting line-up at that time didn't have much if anything at all to do with their health.

(Maybe Rowand's motorcycle accident, one of those offseasons.  There's one exception, but I'm too tired to look up when/where that happened in his career.)

 

We might as well include Moncada coming up for the 2017 postseason and playing in less than 10 games for Boston while we're at it.

 

Again, we REMOVED THE FIRST YEARS OF CREDES CAREER FROM THE DATA SET AND STILL DID NOT COME ANYWHERE NEAR YOUR NUMBER OF 144 GAMES PER YEAR PLAYED.

you made the point, you named all these players, nobody named them for you.  The players with “great” health were chosen by you 

[caulfield12]

37 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Again, we REMOVED THE FIRST YEARS OF CREDES CAREER FROM THE DATA SET AND STILL DID NOT COME ANYWHERE NEAR YOUR NUMBER OF 144 GAMES PER YEAR PLAYED.

you made the point, you named all these players, nobody named them for you.  The players with “great” health were chosen by you 

It's 135 including 2003-07. 

I missed 2007.  My badness,  I should probably be drawn and quartered... 

Creed split 2001 and 2002 between the majors and minors before playing in his first full season in 2003. NOT INJURED... 

Still a lot more than any of the four modern-day players. 

 

I left out the first/rookie year of Anderson's career as well, and here's exactly why, he didn't have an opportunity to play a full season as he only played for four months..."On June 10, 2016, the White Sox designated Jimmy Rollins for assignment and promoted Anderson to the major leagues.^[26] Anderson made his MLB debut that day, hitting a double off of Ian Kennedy of the Kansas City Royals in his first at bat.^[27] Anderson batted .283 with nine home runs in 99 games for the White Sox.^[28]

DATE	INJURY
4/10/23	Knee
8/9/22	Finger
5/30/22	Groin
5/29/22	Groin
4/23/22	Illness
8/31/21	Hamstring
8/24/21	Legs
4/5/21	Hamstring
4/4/21	Hamstring
9/20/20	Right hamstring
7/31/20	Right Groin
6/25/19	Ankle
5/25/19	Wrist
7/5/18	Left arm soreness

Edited April 19, 2023 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

It’s not 135.  Stop doing math, you are bad at it.  I’m not even good at it, but this is embarrassing 

[caulfield12]

It's between 120 and 121.  

So Crede and Rowand were basically comparable to Anderson and Moncada... and Robert/Eloy got their butts kicked by basically every single regular from the 2000's. 

Rowand averaged more GP than Anderson... and it's getting worse for every day Anderson is out in 2023. 

[caulfield12]

Let's talk some really important and relevant numbers. 

You still CAN'T explain why they went from the very best record of health in the AL from 2000-2012 under Herm Schneider to one of the very worst under Hahn and every single trainer from 2013 until 2023. 

Top 4-5 record in baseball during that time frame with KW and Schneider. 

Bottom 5-7 winning percentage in all of baseball from 2013-2023 under Hahn and three different training staffs. 

Let's ask PTAC if he attributes it to the trainers, players/"today's modern athlete", front office interference/indifference or the various managers during those two specific time frames... 

Edited April 19, 2023 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

Ok everyone forget about everything I just said, I have a new scalding hot take 

[Tnetennba]

Just take the L dude…

[ron883]

22 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Reported for ageism to moderators. 

 

Basically, TA7 Rowand Quentin played similar number of games per year and neither one of those is/was close to being described as the franchise cornerstone and meriting a $175-225 million FA contract in 2000's adjusted constant dollars. 

They were both consistently described as reckless and/or injury prone. 

 

Basically the Sox went from the best in the business missing the least amount of days under Schneider to being a consensus Bottom 5 team in baseball under Hahn and various trainers like Ball and Thomas that were mistreated or discriminated against by the organization. 

Hell yeah 

[JoeC]

I don't think anyone is arguing against the fact that Herm Schneider played a key role in the health of the players.

[ShoeLessRob]

Herm Schneider… one of the most unhealthy people I’ve seen… yet ironically a master of his craft… keeping people healthy.

[Ducksnort]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Let's talk some really important and relevant numbers. 

You still CAN'T explain why they went from the very best record of health in the AL from 2000-2012 under Herm Schneider to one of the very worst under Hahn and every single trainer from 2013 until 2023. 

Top 4-5 record in baseball during that time frame with KW and Schneider. 

Bottom 5-7 winning percentage in all of baseball from 2013-2023 under Hahn and three different training staffs. 

Let's ask PTAC if he attributes it to the trainers, players/"today's modern athlete", front office interference/indifference or the various managers during those two specific time frames... 

Didn't Hermy retire in 2019?

[Ducksnort]

52 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Herm Schneider… one of the most unhealthy people I’ve seen… yet ironically a master of his craft… keeping people healthy.

"Do as I say, not as I do"

[Lip Man 1]

The injury situation is frustrating and bizarre and it's been going on for a longer period of time than people think.

Back in 2016 for one example four rookies who were brought up never even finished their first game in a Sox uniform because of injuries, (Tilson, Coates, Davidson and Smith). The Sox have gone through three trainers, and multiple strength and conditioning coaches just in the past few years. They also had that study last winter that was going to look into why this was happening. Those results were never made public although the Sox did hire some folks with biomechanical backgrounds and tried to upgrade that area.

Nothing seems to have changed (which makes the Sox lack of depth even more telling.)

When I specifically asked sources about the injury areas this winter, these were their comments about it:

On the constant injuries

“Alan Thomas (Author’s Note: Thomas was the Director of Strength and Conditioning) was let go because his son was draft eligible and he was told the Sox no longer wanted to draft sons of members of the organization. Turns out his kid is playing center field for the Diamondbacks. I’m not saying he’d be playing center field for us but he’s good enough to be in the Major Leagues. I don’t know the new guy they brought in, but guys are getting hurt left and right.” (Author’s Note: I had heard Thomas disagreed with the results of the Sox injury study conducted last winter which was never released to the media or public. I was told he felt the Sox issues were only caused by the COVID restrictions. “The Sox play checkers where others teams play chess” when it comes to injury prevention, conditioning, nutrition, sleep schedules is a phrase I had heard mentioned.)

“The White Sox playing shorthanded started in 2007 when Jermaine Dye got hurt and Kenny Williams refused to call up Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney. Maybe they were cheap, maybe they wanted to protect Herm’s record of keeping guys off the DL.” (Author’s Note: Herm Schneider was the Sox longtime head trainer and for years the Sox were among the league leaders in keeping players healthy.) 

“Jake Peavy made the comment one time, ‘They have no reservations about playing shorthanded.”

“You know about Mike Reinold right? (Author’s Note: Reinold is the White Sox Senior Medical Advisor) He was fired by the Red Sox because he was injecting players with Toradol.” (Author’s Note: Bleacher Report had a story on this situation published in February 2013. Here is the link to that story: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1530943-ex-red-sox-trainer-mike-reinold-injected-players-with-controversial-substance) 

“Given the inordinate amount of soft-tissue injuries they have had you’d think that they would do a complete change in the training, conditioning and nutritional areas.”

 

 

[ShoeLessRob]

An uninspired hire from a dysfunctional organization.