White Sox Trade

[ChiSoxTrojan]

24 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

With respect to Eloy in the OF, I guess it depends on what your definition of more time is.  More than 1 start in the OF in 18 games like we've seen so far?  Yeah, probably.  But the Sox aren't going to sit Colas often versus RHP, IMO.  They also know Eloy is risk to himself and everyone around him in the OF.  

"More than what we've seen so far" is what I meant when I said "more". If everyone is healthy, I'd expect to see it about once/week (if not slightly more).

Against LHP, Burger HAS to play, so it's a choice between sitting one of Moncada, Colas, or Benintendi.

Against RHP, you get a choice between giving one of Burger, Colas, Vaughn, or Eloy a day off. Eventually Burger will cool down (or someone will get hurt), but if he's still crushing tanks off RHP every other day, then go with the hot bat and give someone else a day off. Might light a fire under Eloy to know his lineup spot isn't secure when he's not producing.

[joejoesox]

Put Eloy in the OF for a week, let him injure himself so we can put this discussion to rest

[White Sox Park]

It does appear that Moncada might have a good offensive season, if he can stay on the field . I wouldn't trade either right now . Burger looks like Roger Maris right now, it may just be one of those insane hot streaks , like that yankee player, years ago, who hit a ton of home runs through the first half of the season, and then just stopped.

[WBWSF]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

And you want to be my General Manager..

I would have been better off being the owner.

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I would have been better off being the owner.

Got a spare couple billion laying around?

[LittleHurtCG]

3 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Lol Moncada, while having an achy back and hurt now,  still having one of his most promising offensive starts in a few years and “can’t hit”

You can't hit if you ain't in the lineup. 

3 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

All these calls from Sox fans to DFA or trade Eloy are so funny to me.  Yes, he gets hurt alot.  But that's the same reason he has minimal trade value.  You could maybeeeeee get a back-end top 100 prospect type for him in July if he hasn't missed a bunch more time and is within spitting distance of  his career line of .273/.325/.496.  I do think his contract still has value ($27M guaranteed in 23, 24 and 25 buyout), and those 25 and 26 options are pretty fair at $16.5M and $18.5M, but the same reason some cohort of Sox fans want to dump Eloy is the same reason he won't bring you a big return.  He's the one guy on this team that can realistically hit .300 and pop 40+ homers.  There is no good reason to trade him, especially when you have decent in-house DH options in Burger and Sheets to fill in when he does get hurt.   

Now if Eloy stays healthy and rakes the next 2.5 months and the Sox still find themselves 10 GB, sure, by all means field offers and try to sell high.  But selling low certainly isn't the answer to what ails the Sox. 

How can he realistically do this if he has never come close to doing it before? 300 and 40 dingers from this dude ain't happening. Let's see him get his OPS above 500 first. 

2 hours ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

Burger has had plenty of his own random injuries, even since the Achilles issues. I don't think he's a better bet to stay healthy than Moncada.

If Moncada is healthy and productive, he has MVP-candidate potential. Obviously that's a huge "if", but Jake Burger is a very flawed baseball player even at his best. He still can be useful, especially if he continues to mash against both sides of the plate, but dumping Moncada for Burger would be incredibly short-sighted.

Moncada does not have MVP candidate potential. It is not 2017 anymore. 

[Quin]

I also enjoy these threads because it's like

1. Moncada sucks
2. Trade Moncada to teams who will obviously give us something nice for Moncada

[Kyyle23]

15 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

You can't hit if you ain't in the lineup. 

How can he realistically do this if he has never come close to doing it before? 300 and 40 dingers from this dude ain't happening. Let's see him get his OPS above 500 first. 

Moncada does not have MVP candidate potential. It is not 2017 anymore. 

You aren’t worth much in a trade either 

[ChiSoxTrojan]

I know we've been through this before, but it would be really helpful if Moncada would consider taking some reps at 2B. I'm not talking about a full-time move, just a little cross-training to increase his versatility. Lots of "everyday players" split time between multiple positions these days.

Imagine it's the 6th inning, the Sox are down by a couple runs, but they've got a couple runners on base for Sosa or Andrus (whoever's at 2B). Wouldn't it be nice if Burger was able to pinch hit, and then Moncada could slide over to 2B so the Sox don't have to use up two bench players? And then you don't need Romy or Alberto to be taking those late ABs if you're still trailing in the 8th or 9th?

[The Kids Can Play]

3 hours ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

Burger has had plenty of his own random injuries, even since the Achilles issues. I don't think he's a better bet to stay healthy than Moncada.

If Moncada is healthy and productive, he has MVP-candidate potential. Obviously that's a huge "if", but Jake Burger is a very flawed baseball player even at his best. He still can be useful, especially if he continues to mash against both sides of the plate, but dumping Moncada for Burger would be incredibly short-sighted.

Actually that is not even close to being accurate on Burger regarding his health or production. Since he recovered from the Achilles injuries, Jake has played fairly healthy. In 2021 he played the majority of the season at Charlotte and only missed a few games there. When he was called up for a short time in the 2021, he played in all 15 games he was available to start or pinch hit in. In 2022 yes Jake had one bad injury but that was from a bruise bone from a hit by a pitch where he missed 23 games. Yet since his Achilles injuries, Jake has not missed one time for the typical hamstrings and obliques that Moncada is known for. 

On the other hand Moncada had numerous injuries and missed way more games than Burger. In 2021 Moncada did played healthier and played in 144 games. However in 2022 he only played in 104 games and was on the IL three different times. Two were for Hamstring strains and one for an oblique strain.   

Now in 2023, Burger hasn't missed a game yet and Moncada has already missed 9 games due to a back issue and still counting. Even when he gets back, hw soon before he pulls another hamstring?

As far as your comment that when Moncada is healthy he is an MVP candidate potential...is at this stage a pipedream and a delusional prayer. Yes he got off to a good start, but as usual, it was just a matter of time before he got injured. The facts are, the last time Moncada showed anything resembling MVP caliber numbers was 2019 when he did put up good numbers. Since 2019 they are not anything close to MVP caliber numbers and actually well below average numbers for the third base position in MLB:

Moncada's last 3 years

2020 - .225/.273/.353/.626

2021 - .263/.375/.412/.787

2022 - .212/.273/353/.626

I'm not sure where you are coming up with your outrageous comment of,  Jake Burger is a  "very flawed baseball player at his best." I wish we had a few more players on this Sox team that were as flawed as Jake Burger.

As long as we got some solid prospects for Moncada, I would do that deal in a heartbeat. 

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[The Mighty Mite]

50 minutes ago, Quin said:

I also enjoy these threads because it's like

1. Moncada sucks
2. Trade Moncada to teams who will obviously give us something nice for Moncada

#1 is true.

#2 is next to impossible.

[oldsox]

5 hours ago, WBWSF said:

With Burger and Moncada on the team something has to give here. Burger can hit and can't field. Moncada can field and can't hit anymore. Can one of them be traded now? I don't know if trades are permitted now. Is there a certain date were a trade can be made? I don't know what the rules are anymore in regards to trading. Perhaps somebody can tell me if trades  can be made now.

Trade deadline usually arrives end of July.  That's why every year SoxTalk has a section called Trade Winds that expires shortly thereafter. 

[ChiSoxTrojan]

6 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Actually that is not even close to being accurate on Burger regarding his health or production. Since he recovered from the Achilles injuries, Jake has played fairly healthy. In 2021 he played the majority of the season at Charlotte and only missed a few games there. When he was called up for a short time in the 2021, he played in all 15 games he was available to start or pinch hit in. In 2022 yes Jake had one bad injury but that was from a bruise bone from a hit by a pitch where he missed 23 games. Yet since his Achilles injuries, Jake has not missed one time for the typical hamstrings and obliques that Moncada is known for. 

On the other hand Moncada had numerous injuries and missed way more games than Burger. In 2021 Moncada did played healthier and played in 144 games. However in 2022 he only played in 104 games and was on the IL three different times. Two were for Hamstring strains and one for an oblique strain.   

Now in 2023, Burger hasn't missed a game yet and Moncada has already missed 9 games due to a back issue and still counting. Even when he gets back, hw soon before he pulls another hamstring?

As far as your comment that when Moncada is healthy he is an MVP candidate potential...is at this stage a pipedream and a delusional prayer. Yes he got off to a good start, but as usual, it was just a matter of time before he got injured. The facts are, the last time Moncada showed anything resembling MVP caliber numbers was 2019 when he did put up good numbers. Since 2019 they are not anything close to MVP caliber numbers and actually well below average numbers for the third base position in MLB:

Moncada's last 3 years

2020 - .225/.273/.353/.626

2021 - .263/.375/.412/.787

2022 - .212/.273/353/.626

I'm not sure where you are coming up with your outrageous comment of,  Jake Burger is a  "very flawed baseball player at his best." I wish we had another 5-6 players on this Sox team that were as flawed as Jake Burger.

As long as we got some solid prospects for Moncada, I would do that deal in a heartbeat. 

 

RE: injuries, after the Achilles things Burger also lost nearly a full season with the heel issue. He was relatively healthy in 2021, but last year he had 3 separate injuries (leg, hand, and wrist). He only played in 90 games last year. Moncada on the other hand had been pretty durable until last year. And even in his injury-plagued 2022, he played in more games than Burger. (Whether he should have been playing is another story).

So Burger has only had one healthy season in his career, while Moncada has only had one season of injuries.

On Moncada's last 3 years, in 2020 he was clearly affected by COVID, and 2022 he was clearly affected by injuries. 2021 was the only "normal" season of the 3 and he was a pretty good player - though obviously not at MVP levels.

Burger, "at his best," is a 1-tool player. He's got a ton of power, but that's really it. Terrible defense, doesn't walk, strikes out a ton. That power is really useful, especially on a team that isn't hitting many HRs, but if and when he goes through a mini power slump he's not going to be offering anything else to the team. Ride the hot bat, but by no means does it mean you trade the more well-rounded option for pennies on the dollar.

[The Kids Can Play]

3 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

RE: injuries, after the Achilles things Burger also lost nearly a full season with the heel issue. He was relatively healthy in 2021, but last year he had 3 separate injuries (leg, hand, and wrist). He only played in 90 games last year. Moncada on the other hand had been pretty durable until last year. And even in his injury-plagued 2022, he played in more games than Burger. (Whether he should have been playing is another story).

So Burger has only had one healthy season in his career, while Moncada has only had one season of injuries.

On Moncada's last 3 years, in 2020 he was clearly affected by COVID, and 2022 he was clearly affected by injuries. 2021 was the only "normal" season of the 3 and he was a pretty good player - though obviously not at MVP levels.

Burger, "at his best," is a 1-tool player. He's got a ton of power, but that's really it. Terrible defense, doesn't walk, strikes out a ton. That power is really useful, especially on a team that isn't hitting many HRs, but if and when he goes through a mini power slump he's not going to be offering anything else to the team. Ride the hot bat, but by no means does it mean you trade the more well-rounded option for pennies on the dollar.

Oh, and Moncada doesn't strikeout a lot constantly swinging at pitches outside the zone. That's a joke!

Burger actually played 95 games last year and not 90. He played 82 at Charlotte and 15 with the Sox, but was available for a lot more games and not injured last year.

Moncada was not affected by Covid for all three years since 2019. That is just a bunch of crap. Even when he did play somewhat healthy in 2021, his numbers were not as the original poster mentioned a MVP caliber player when he is healthy.  His best year of the last three was 2021 of .263/.375/.412/.787 which are anything but MVP numbers. 

 

 

[Illinibat]

Moncada is going to be mildly injured and ineffective all year same as last year.

Everyone on here knows this because its who he is ...

[LittleHurtCG]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

You aren’t worth much in a trade either 

[chitownsportsfan]

I propose trading out our owner, GM and entire FO. I will take an expansion club in Peoria in exchange.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Actually that is not even close to being accurate on Burger regarding his health or production. Since he recovered from the Achilles injuries, Jake has played fairly healthy. In 2021 he played the majority of the season at Charlotte and only missed a few games there. When he was called up for a short time in the 2021, he played in all 15 games he was available to start or pinch hit in. In 2022 yes Jake had one bad injury but that was from a bruise bone from a hit by a pitch where he missed 23 games. Yet since his Achilles injuries, Jake has not missed one time for the typical hamstrings and obliques that Moncada is known for. 

On the other hand Moncada had numerous injuries and missed way more games than Burger. In 2021 Moncada did played healthier and played in 144 games. However in 2022 he only played in 104 games and was on the IL three different times. Two were for Hamstring strains and one for an oblique strain.   

Now in 2023, Burger hasn't missed a game yet and Moncada has already missed 9 games due to a back issue and still counting. Even when he gets back, hw soon before he pulls another hamstring?

As far as your comment that when Moncada is healthy he is an MVP candidate potential...is at this stage a pipedream and a delusional prayer. Yes he got off to a good start, but as usual, it was just a matter of time before he got injured. The facts are, the last time Moncada showed anything resembling MVP caliber numbers was 2019 when he did put up good numbers. Since 2019 they are not anything close to MVP caliber numbers and actually well below average numbers for the third base position in MLB:

Moncada's last 3 years

2020 - .225/.273/.353/.626

2021 - .263/.375/.412/.787

2022 - .212/.273/353/.626

I'm not sure where you are coming up with your outrageous comment of,  Jake Burger is a  "very flawed baseball player at his best." I wish we had a few more players on this Sox team that were as flawed as Jake Burger.

As long as we got some solid prospects for Moncada, I would do that deal in a heartbeat. 

 

The Sox would have to basically pay for a lot of Moncada's salary to get anything remotely decent back for him from another team.

I'm guessing the Sox are stuck with him.  

[Stinky Stanky]

7 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Lol Moncada, while having an achy back and hurt now,  still having one of his most promising offensive starts in a few years and “can’t hit”

Don't forget that he had the long COVID.  'tain't fun.  Looks like he might be coming out of it.  

[ChiSoxTrojan]

18 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Oh, and Moncada doesn't strikeout a lot constantly swinging at pitches outside the zone. That's a joke!

Burger actually played 95 games last year and not 90. He played 82 at Charlotte and 15 with the Sox, but was available for a lot more games and not injured last year.

Moncada was not affected by Covid for all three years since 2019. That is just a bunch of crap. Even when he did play somewhat healthy in 2021, his numbers were not as the original poster mentioned a MVP caliber player when he is healthy.  His best year of the last three was 2021 of .263/.375/.412/.787 which are anything but MVP numbers. 

 

 

Your numbers from Burger's games played are from 2021, his only healthy year (as I mentioned). Last year was 2022. He played 51 games with the Sox and only 39 with the Knights, due to all the injury time. When he was with the Sox he played fairly regularly.

I never said he was affected by COVID for 3 years, so that's on you for making stuff up. He was quite clearly affected by it in 2020, anyone who watched the Sox that year knows that is true. And yes I mentioned that 2021 he was good but not MVP level.

The whole point of the original post is that Moncada's ceiling is much higher than Burger's. I don't think that's debatable.

[The Kids Can Play]

4 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

Your numbers from Burger's games played are from 2021, his only healthy year (as I mentioned). Last year was 2022. He played 51 games with the Sox and only 39 with the Knights, due to all the injury time. When he was with the Sox he played fairly regularly.

I never said he was affected by COVID for 3 years, so that's on you for making stuff up. He was quite clearly affected by it in 2020, anyone who watched the Sox that year knows that is true. And yes I mentioned that 2021 he was good but not MVP level.

The whole point of the original post is that Moncada's ceiling is much higher than Burger's. I don't think that's debatable.

I guess we will agree to disagree, I don't think Moncada's celling is any than Burger and it is actually debatable. I've seen many others on this forum agree on Moncada being a bust and overpaid. I think Moncada's one only good year in 2019 was an aberration. They do happen in baseball. Even if he has potential it will never be fully realized because he gets injured constantly. I think Burger has insanely great home run potential which Moncada does not. I also believe Burger's fielding will improve over time. If you recall Abreu was not a good fielder his first few years and then he put the extra work in and become a solid defensive player. 

[tray]

I would keep Burger who can back up at first base or third plus pinch hit. Trade Eloy who would bring in a few good prospects. He doesn't look motivated this year for some reason. Maybe he doesn't  want to be relegated to DH or play for Grifol. Once Eloy is traded start the rebuild in earnest because you aren't going to have a line-up that any team is going to be that concerned about. Anyway once Eloy is traded AV can possibly DH some because he is really a substandard defender at first base. He let a ball get past him yesterday that reminded me how good Pito was at first.  AV is a one tool player that has DH written all over him.  He has had back issues that would be minimized if he is just DHing.

 

[ChiSoxTrojan]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I guess we will agree to disagree, I don't think Moncada's celling is any than Burger and it is actually debatable. I've seen many others on this forum agree on Moncada being a bust and overpaid. I think Moncada's one only good year in 2019 was an aberration. They do happen in baseball. Even if he has potential it will never be fully realized because he gets injured constantly. I think Burger has insanely great home run potential which Moncada does not. I also believe Burger's fielding will improve over time. If you recall Abreu was not a good fielder his first few years and then he put the extra work in and become a solid defensive player. 

I just have to point out again that you are discounting Moncada because "he gets injured constantly", but you're ignoring the fact that Burger has never had a healthier season than Moncada. Except when you used incorrect numbers to describe his 2022 season. I agree that Burger has more power, but that's the only baseball skill where he has an edge.

Burger becoming a better defender at a position he has played his whole career seems like wishful thinking. He could probably become a better 1B in time.

[The Kids Can Play]

20 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

I just have to point out again that you are discounting Moncada because "he gets injured constantly", but you're ignoring the fact that Burger has never had a healthier season than Moncada. Except when you used incorrect numbers to describe his 2022 season. I agree that Burger has more power, but that's the only baseball skill where he has an edge.

Burger becoming a better defender at a position he has played his whole career seems like wishful thinking. He could probably become a better 1B in time.

Likewise to you, thinking Moncada will have another 2019 season and most importantly be healthy all season, is also wishful thinking. 

Also Burger hasn't been playing at the big league level as long as Moncada. Yet since he has been up, Burger has played  more healthy and produced more. 

Time will tell in 2023, but at the end of this season we will see who plays more, is inured less and produces more. Again this my opinion and one you will never change my mind on. We will agree to disagree! 

[The Kids Can Play]

19 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I propose trading out our owner, GM and entire FO. I will take an expansion club in Peoria in exchange.

Good idea, but better yet, instead of accepting a team from Peoria, why not recruit Tampa Bay to come to Chicago, since the TB fan base refuses to support one of the better teams in baseball. Let's bring TB to a city who would die to be passionate and attend games played by such a successful team, who yearly who have so little money to spend, but do it right in all the other areas that our owner and FO are clueless about.