Catharsis

[joejoesox]

Nothing helps more than knowing we all feel the same about this team (for the most part, with some exceptions)

Posting some podcasts/videos of other Sox fans rant/vent about what's happening, how we got here, nailing down exactly what the problems are, etc

Watching these were cathartic for me personally (I posted this in the game thread but we close those so)

Feel free to post your own videos/interviews that reflect what we are feeling right now. ?

Edited April 24, 2023 by joejoesox

[Greg Hibbard]

I struggle with the notion in the first video that the Sox FO and ownership finds losing a preferable outcome. I get it, because they don’t open the purse strings to $300 million players. But I think it’s worse; the Sox have been trying to win, but have been incompetent in assembling the veteran pieces, some starting pitching, and bullpen to compliment the young core of this roster. They set so much money on fire. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Greg Hibbard

[HOFHurt35]

1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I struggle with the notion in the first video that the Sox FO and ownership finds losing a preferable outcome. I get it, because they don’t open the purse strings to $300 million players. But I think it’s worse; the Sox have been trying to win, but have been incompetent in assembling the veteran pieces, some starting pitching, and bullpen to compliment the young core of this roster. They set so much money on fire. 

This was only going to go as far as how good the Core would end up being.  Bottom line is they were overrated and really average if not bad now that we see the finished product.  The bad referring to those that provided nothing at the big league level (Fulmer, Collins, Madrigal, Burdi, Hansen, Adolfo, Basabe, Walker, Gonzalez, etc)

And to this very moment, there's a lot of struggling still going on with the top prospects in the organization. 

[Chimpton]

3 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I struggle with the notion in the first video that the Sox FO and ownership finds losing a preferable outcome. I get it, because they don’t open the purse strings to $300 million players. But I think it’s worse; the Sox have been trying to win, but have been incompetent in assembling the veteran pieces, some starting pitching, and bullpen to compliment the young core of this roster. They set so much money on fire. 

I said this in another thread, this is the really worrying thing, they are actually trying at the moment and are this bad. At least during the tank seasons under Ricky R. you got the sense they were trying to educate them to do the basics right and he would only accept maximum effort, at the moment they can't even do the basics and look disinterested at best, losing doesn't look like it bothers them that much.

[joejoesox]

4 hours ago, HOFHurt35 said:

This was only going to go as far as how good the Core would end up being.  Bottom line is they were overrated and really average if not bad now that we see the finished product.  The bad referring to those that provided nothing at the big league level (Fulmer, Collins, Madrigal, Burdi, Hansen, Adolfo, Basabe, Walker, Gonzalez, etc)

And to this very moment, there's a lot of struggling still going on with the top prospects in the organization. 

Do you think Tampa Bay would be bad with the Sox roster? No way to know for sure, but I think they would be very very good. Like dude said, it's an infrastructure problem first and foremost. 

[joejoesox]

 

[caulfield12]

White Sox 23rd in this week's MLB Power Rankings as well as attendance. 

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-power-rankings-for-2023-week-4

AL Central with 3 of the Bottom 8 spots. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by caulfield12

[Quin]

Anyone know how Garfein and co. are doing on the White Sox Talk podcast? Last year they were sticking it out well into June and defending a lot of clear issues.

[GREEDY]

10-12 with this schedule was probably the baseline.  So while 7-15 is a huge disappointment, it probably doesn't justify the complete outrage. The next two series are not going to be easy so now is definitely time to enjoy the falling sky if that is your thing.  

[Highland]

9 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I struggle with the notion in the first video that the Sox FO and ownership finds losing a preferable outcome. I get it, because they don’t open the purse strings to $300 million players. But I think it’s worse; the Sox have been trying to win, but have been incompetent in assembling the veteran pieces, some starting pitching, and bullpen to compliment the young core of this roster. They set so much money on fire. 

I agree that the Sox have been trying to win, but sometimes it seems like they are not. This past offseason they did little. Then, when they hire managers, they either look for a crony or someone with no experience. It is hard to be optimistic when we see these patterns. It is truly hard to be optimistic when they start the season this way. The long-term future doesn't look so hot, either. I have some hope but not many expectations.

[The Kids Can Play]

14 hours ago, joejoesox said:

Nothing helps more than knowing we all feel the same about this team (for the most part, with some exceptions)

Posting some podcasts/videos of other Sox fans rant/vent about what's happening, how we got here, nailing down exactly what the problems are, etc

Watching these were cathartic for me personally (I posted this in the game thread but we close those so)

Feel free to post your own videos/interviews that reflect what we are feeling right now. ?

Great videos! Wish we could get these and many more, along with SoxTalk posts sent to Jerry and Hahn and cc the entire FO.

[HOFHurt35]

5 hours ago, joejoesox said:

Do you think Tampa Bay would be bad with the Sox roster? No way to know for sure, but I think they would be very very good. Like dude said, it's an infrastructure problem first and foremost. 

What was once the niche of the organization and perhaps the only thing they did well, signing players early has been the poison pill for this team. 

No way Anderson, Moncada, Eloy, Robert would be spending this much time on the DL if their next contract depended on stats and performance. 

Gotta follow the Rays and Guardians blueprint, use them for 4-6 years and then move on.   Obviously their plan works a lot better.  

[Snopek]

1 hour ago, GREEDY said:

10-12 with this schedule was probably the baseline.  So while 7-15 is a huge disappointment, it probably doesn't justify the complete outrage. The next two series are not going to be easy so now is definitely time to enjoy the falling sky if that is your thing.  

I think a lot of the outrage has to do with coming to terms with the fact that the window of contention ended up being like 1.5 seasons (if we're being generous) and that the future of the org is rather bleak. I'm not sure how that doesn't justify outrage.

Also, if the expected outcome of a stretch of games vs contenders is 10-12, I'm not sure that's the sign of a contending team in the first place.

[The Kids Can Play]

5 hours ago, joejoesox said:

Do you think Tampa Bay would be bad with the Sox roster? No way to know for sure, but I think they would be very very good. Like dude said, it's an infrastructure problem first and foremost. 

I agree I think the Tampa FO and coaching staff would have gotten better results with this Sox roster, but probably not as much as we might think.

However I firmly believe the Tampa Bay FO wouldn't have selected most of these players from the Sox roster for their own TB roster in the first place, either by drafting, FA signings and trades. The Rays FO have a different blueprint and philosophy of what constitutes a quality productive major league player, that obviously the Sox FO have no clue on. Btw, this is not just TB, there are several other successful teams that understand the special steps needed to build and maintain a winning organization. 

[Greg Hibbard]

1 hour ago, Highland said:

I agree that the Sox have been trying to win, but sometimes it seems like they are not. This past offseason they did little. Then, when they hire managers, they either look for a crony or someone with no experience. It is hard to be optimistic when we see these patterns. It is truly hard to be optimistic when they start the season this way. The long-term future doesn't look so hot, either. I have some hope but not many expectations.

The very worst thing that happened to us as fans long term was that the Sox FO luckboxed their way into a fluke 2005 World Series win. That win was brought to you by an insane number of career years and everything working out injury wise and budget wise just right, and gave everyone involved the confirmation bias they needed to justify their idiotic business model for the rest of time because against all sense, logic, and reason, it worked exactly once. The White Sox are the Chris Moneymaker of MLB. 

[Highland]

23 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

The very worst thing that happened to us as fans long term was that the Sox FO luckboxed their way into a fluke 2005 World Series win. That win was brought to you by an insane number of career years and everything working out injury wise and budget wise just right, and gave everyone involved the confirmation bias they needed to justify their idiotic business model for the rest of time because against all sense, logic, and reason, it worked exactly once. The White Sox are the Chris Moneymaker of MLB. 

I think you are right about 2005. I recall wondering how everything went so right. I thought it would be one of at least several more championships, but obviously I was misguided in that assumption.

[pcq]

7 minutes ago, Highland said:

I think you are right about 2005. I recall wondering how everything went so right. I thought it would be one of at least several more championships, but obviously I was misguided in that assumption.

Which is why Ken was retooling in the off-season. He did not see that squad repeating.

[oldsox]

10 minutes ago, Highland said:

I think you are right about 2005. I recall wondering how everything went so right. I thought it would be one of at least several more championships, but obviously I was misguided in that assumption.

Really??

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

Anyone know how Garfein and co. are doing on the White Sox Talk podcast? Last year they were sticking it out well into June and defending a lot of clear issues.

In general terms Garfein has been saying more time is needed to really see where this season is going although he has admitted (after the fact) that last year he knew things were going south and the season was over after Baltimore took three of four from the Sox in Chicago. 

McGuffie (sorry about the spelling) is being more candid and producing stats that show how bad the Sox are and that it doesn't figure to change. 

neither has (of course) been making any direct attacks about ownership/front office incompetence. 

[Greg Hibbard]

1 minute ago, oldsox said:

Really??

I drank the Kool Aid through 2011. I mean, we won 90 games in 2006, and arguably were a better team. We just didn't quite make it. And then there was 2008, which was an electric season in its own way, and we lost the playoff series to the eventual AL champ. And Schuler had division titles in 1993 and 2000, and we were in the lead during 1994 when the strike hit.  

It was only recently that the layers began to peel back and I saw the onion for what it really is. 

[Quin]

12 minutes ago, Highland said:

I think you are right about 2005. I recall wondering how everything went so right. I thought it would be one of at least several more championships, but obviously I was misguided in that assumption.

 

3 minutes ago, pcq said:

Which is why Ken was retooling in the off-season. He did not see that squad repeating.

Man, that 2006 squad. If only the pitching didn't implode.

And obviously hindsight on Frank being healthy and the dumb spat with KW, but Rowand in center would have made that lineup all the scarier.

And then Gio + Anderson could have been used for a pitcher.

[Lip Man 1]

1 minute ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I drank the Kool Aid through 2011. I mean, we won 90 games in 2006, and arguably were a better team. We just didn't quite make it. And then there was 2008, which was an electric season in its own way, and we lost the playoff series to the eventual AL champ. And Schuler had division titles in 1993 and 2000, and we were in the lead during 1994 when the strike hit.  

It was only recently that the layers began to peel back and I saw the onion for what it really is. 

Since the start of the 2007 season the Sox have been one of the worst teams in baseball.

[Greg Hibbard]

10 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Since the start of the 2007 season the Sox have been one of the worst teams in baseball.

Yes, and from 1990-2012 they had a top 10 record in baseball over that stretch, maybe even close to top 5. It's all in how you chop up the sample size. 

[FloydBannister1983]

4 hours ago, GREEDY said:

10-12 with this schedule was probably the baseline.  So while 7-15 is a huge disappointment, it probably doesn't justify the complete outrage. The next two series are not going to be easy so now is definitely time to enjoy the falling sky if that is your thing.  

It’s more than the record.  You can watch them play and tell they don’t give a shiite.  It’s way I keep thinking there is no one likable on this team.

[joejoesox]

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by joejoesox