Columns on Hahn...

[The Kids Can Play]

12 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Steve Greenberg writes Hahn needs to be fired:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2023/4/27/23701680/white-sox-rick-hahn-pedro-grifol-jerry-reinsdorf-put-it-on-me

Story contains some interesting comments from Manny Machado too. 

I'm glad he is getting ripped which he so richly deserves!

I hope these type of articles multiply at an insane rate to the rest of baseball America.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

I’m glad to hear he cleared up his divinity status. I’ve often wondered

Edited April 28, 2023 by FourEyesShottenhoffer

[4uckOffCommieScum]

12 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

 

Even the misery of Sox fans is just a viral marketing opportunity for the likes of miller lite. What a world we’re living in

[bmags]

Quite frankly many articles over the years did criticize sox fans as overly negative (Sox were picked to be world series winners last year! What are you complaining about) and anyway we were right, every offseason with the exception of 2017 was a disaster for hahn. 

[SonofaRoache]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

How does Rick Hahn say on one hand no one is harder on him than himself, and on the other b**** about negative fans who think everything he does, is wrong?

Because he is full of it. No way he didn't expect this team to be mediocre at best when everyone else knew it and the analytics showed it. His strategy is to make fans think he is one of them to buy more time to find another scapegoat. I wouldn't be surprised if Katz and to a lessor degree Grifol were fired. This season is so bad you have to consider firing Grifol. 

[Dick Allen]

22 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Because he is full of it. No way he didn't expect this team to be mediocre at best when everyone else knew it and the analytics showed it. His strategy is to make fans think he is one of them to buy more time to find another scapegoat. I wouldn't be surprised if Katz and to a lessor degree Grifol were fired. This season is so bad you have to consider firing Grifol. 

I think Pedro getting whacked should be on the table but both Hahn and KW went out of their way to say he's not a problem. IMO, just another case where they don't even want to consider they were wrong going after the cheapest guy available.

 

And if someone can explain to me this hitting "system" that is taking a while to catch on. What kind of system which is aimed at making batters more selective, and swinging at strikes, makes players poor at doing that, initially, for at least 100 AB, probably more, make them even less selective, and chase more than they ever did? It's obviously spin. They have an awful hitting coach.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Dick Allen

[LittleHurtCG]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I think Pedro getting whacked should be on the table but both Hahn and KW went out of their way to say he's not a problem. IMO, just another case where they don't even want to consider they were wrong going after the cheapest guy available.

Highly highly doubt Grifol gets fired this year. No way is JR paying him and Tony to both sit on the couch at home. I could see Grifol getting axed or "reassigned" during the offseason though. 

[Timmy U]

My position, which I have stated before, is everyone must go. Reinsdorf, KW, Hahn, Getz, the entire scouting department, the 3 guys who do "analytics," the manager, the coaches, all of the players. Scrape the thing down to the ground and start over. That will take 3-5 years just to be in position to think about competing, but this organization is rotten to the core. Of course, Hahn should lose his job, but replacing him alone would do nothing.

[ThirdGen]

7 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Highly highly doubt Grifol gets fired this year. No way is JR paying him and Tony to both sit on the couch at home. I could see Grifol getting axed or "reassigned" during the offseason though. 

Do we know if TLR is getting paid this year?  Technically he quit didn't he?

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I think Pedro getting whacked should be on the table but both Hahn and KW went out of their way to say he's not a problem. IMO, just another case where they don't even want to consider they were wrong going after the cheapest guy available.

 

And if someone can explain to me this hitting "system" that is taking a while to catch on. What kind of system which is aimed at making batters more selective, and swinging at strikes, makes players poor at doing that, initially, for at least 100 AB, probably more, make them even less selective, and chase more than they ever did? It's obviously spin. They have an awful hitting coach.

I think the way you get things to sound good to Hahn when he is hiring a hitting coach is to talk about how you don’t want to be patient just for the sake of taking walks, but that you want to be patient but not miss your pitch to put in play.

For some guys (Anderson, Moncada pre injury) that’s exactly what they need to hear and it’s a setup that works for them.

For other guys (Robert, Eloy) they hear this as swing aggressively if you think you can make contact. They’re the ones who need someone to tell them and work with them constantly on not swinging at garbage.

I also wouldn’t be surprised one but if this years hitting coaches talked about taking advantage of the shift rules with more contact.

[Dick Allen]

Hahn fired Ricky Renteria. At the time, I thought the move was solid for where the Sox wanted to go. I didn't think Ricky ran the pitching staff too well, and seeing him bent over with his hands on his knees during the playoffs was a bit much. 

Looking back, the team looked so happy and fun when he was around. It was a bit like that when Tony first started, but eventually that joy died. Would it have stayed had Ricky stayed? We will never know, but I would like Hahn to answer why he deserves a White Sox paycheck and Ricky Renteria does not.

[FloydBannister1983]

44 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Because he is full of it. No way he didn't expect this team to be mediocre at best when everyone else knew it and the analytics showed it. His strategy is to make fans think he is one of them to buy more time to find another scapegoat. I wouldn't be surprised if Katz and to a lessor degree Grifol were fired. This season is so bad you have to consider firing Grifol. 

I agree.  This team doesn’t show up ready to play.  They show up ready to take it up the rear end again and again and again.

I don’t have TV any more so I get most of my Sox info on the radio or reading the box score.  I will check the score about 20 minutes after game start and it’s at the point where I’m surprised if they aren’t down 4-0.

 

Time to get rid of Grifol and hire the next Scapegoat.

[CanOfCorn]

As has been said before, firing everyone will have absolutely no effect on this team winning as long as Reinsdorf and the other flunkies own this team. I don't trust him to hire the correct VPs, GM, etc. So, what the hell difference does it make? The only thing we can do is let our wallets do the talking and even that probably doesn't work as he's making enough from all the other things that ownership will barely feel it. 
 

Dont' care that Hahn addressed the media. None of it matters. Trades, new managers, coaches...none of it until the ownership group sells to someone who wants to win.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Hahn fired Ricky Renteria. At the time, I thought the move was solid for where the Sox wanted to go. I didn't think Ricky ran the pitching staff too well, and seeing him bent over with his hands on his knees during the playoffs was a bit much. 

Looking back, the team looked so happy and fun when he was around. It was a bit like that when Tony first started, but eventually that joy died. Would it have stayed had Ricky stayed? We will never know, but I would like Hahn to answer why he deserves a White Sox paycheck and Ricky Renteria does not.

Agree 100%. This entire sequence has me convinced the most important quality of a manager is the ability to foster the spirit of the team, outweighing any other consideration. Of course this is entirely unquantifiable, but fact is sometimes bad calls go right and vice versa. regardless, going through three managers in the midst of the supposed window is clearly dysfunctional.
 

I think the guys were unhappy about Renteria yet wanted to give TLR a chance, but the entire Yermin fiasco turned them against him. No way Renteria would havd treated any of them with that kind of disrespect, they knew it and it was all downhill from there.
 

So then they brought in some corporate-speak pollyanna and that ain’t the ticket either. Who ever sat through a corporate meeting listening to some mid level management lingo and left feeling inspired. I’d want to see someone living and dying on it, not some platitude spewing company man. But to be fair, Grifol was put in a bad position. Which of course is the front office’s fault.

[JoshPR]

51 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

My position, which I have stated before, is everyone must go. Reinsdorf, KW, Hahn, Getz, the entire scouting department, the 3 guys who do "analytics," the manager, the coaches, all of the players. Scrape the thing down to the ground and start over. That will take 3-5 years just to be in position to think about competing, but this organization is rotten to the core. Of course, Hahn should lose his job, but replacing him alone would do nothing.

That's my line of thinking too, but do want Reinsdorf In charge of all that again? We are stuck, Reinsdorf ain't selling and is terrible picking people to do the job. And I doubt at his age he wants to take on that task

[4uckOffCommieScum]

3 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

That's my line of thinking too, but do want Reinsdorf In charge of all that again? We are stuck, Reinsdorf ain't selling and is terrible picking people to do the job. And I doubt at his age he wants to take on that task

All he would have to do is pick the one right guy to make those decisions for him though. Not saying its going to happen but its not like its some sort of impossibility

[JoshPR]

9 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

All he would have to do is pick the one right guy to make those decisions for him though. Not saying its going to happen but its not like its some sort of impossibility

The right guy for him would be one of his incompetent buddies

[4uckOffCommieScum]

4 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

The right guy for him would be one of his incompetent buddies

Well like you said we are stuck with JR, so sticking with known failure of Hahn/KW/Getz or complete tear down under direction of new GM selected by JR, I still would go with the latter

Edited April 28, 2023 by FourEyesShottenhoffer

[caulfield12]

Simone pointed out online that the Kelvin Herrera and Joe Kelly deals are virtually identical. 

Between Leury, Diekman and Kelly, those are just some awful moves... which Hahn's remaining defenders will undoubtedly blame on TLR, just like the Lance Lynn extension and Kimbrel. 

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Simone pointed out online that the Kelvin Herrera and Joe Kelly deals are virtually identical. 

Between Leury, Diekman and Kelly, those are just some awful moves... which Hahn's remaining defenders will undoubtedly blame on TLR, just like the Lance Lynn extension and Kimbrel. 

He messed up on Kimbrel, needed a RF who could hit RHP and got Pollock, who couldn't play RF, and couldn't hit RHP. He got lucky AJ wanted out, and only had to pay him $5 million this year.  The only good moves he makes aren't even his thinking. There is no way they sign Cueto last year if Lynn doesnt hurt his knee. And Andrus was really good, but another no brainer getting released right when TA was pretty much done for the season. Any fantasy league owner could have done those. Of course he ruins his good Andrus move and signs him to stink up the joint this year, ignoring his recent history. 

I can't fathom what JR sees in him. He's made his franchise unwatchable. He's blown hundreds of millions of dollars on crap. He has no farm system, the most cost effective way to keep your team relevant. Almost everything he has done for over a decade, there are some exceptions, were wrong. How is he still around?

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

8 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Here Here!

[RG23SoxFan]

2 hours ago, Timmy U said:

My position, which I have stated before, is everyone must go. Reinsdorf, KW, Hahn, Getz, the entire scouting department, the 3 guys who do "analytics," the manager, the coaches, all of the players. Scrape the thing down to the ground and start over. That will take 3-5 years just to be in position to think about competing, but this organization is rotten to the core. Of course, Hahn should lose his job, but replacing him alone would do nothing.

Yes, unfortunately the owner can't be fired.  Reinsdorf obviously knows how to make money and he also obviously has no clue how to run a professional sports organization.  If not for Michael Jordan, in his around 80 years of ownership between Sox and Bulls he would have one championship.  He doesn't know what he is doing and he hires people who don't either and this is what you end up with. 

[pcq]

13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He messed up on Kimbrel, needed a RF who could hit RHP and got Pollock, who couldn't play RF, and couldn't hit RHP. He got lucky AJ wanted out, and only had to pay him $5 million this year.  The only good moves he makes aren't even his thinking. There is no way they sign Cueto last year if Lynn doesnt hurt his knee. And Andrus was really good, but another no brainer getting released right when TA was pretty much done for the season. Any fantasy league owner could have done those. Of course he ruins his good Andrus move and signs him to stink up the joint this year, ignoring his recent history. 

I can't fathom what JR sees in him. He's made his franchise unwatchable. He's blown hundreds of millions of dollars on crap. He has no farm system, the most cost effective way to keep your team relevant. Almost everything he has done for over a decade, there are some exceptions, were wrong. How is he still around?

Meanwhile the timid Sox could not beat a minor league team. They miss Jose. 

[The Mighty Mite]

So many people who have failed in their jobs, Reinsdorf, Williams, Hahn, TLR and Grifol but as horrible as they’ve been it’s the players who have failed miserably playing like a bunch of little leaguers. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by The Mighty Mite

[A-Train to 35th]

17 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Both Kenny and Rick dangling the "we might be fired" carrot to the media the last couple days seems fishy to me.  

Kenny wants to retire, he probably told JR to fire him so he can hang his hat on the 2005 WS and distance himself from this train wreck.  The longer he stay's the more bad press he'll receive especially after his "Accountability" comment.