Robert benched mid game for not hustling and/or tweaked hammy

[ptatc]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

There may be a little lost in translation. It might not really be hey I ran hard yesterday, so I was taking a break today as bad as it was translated. But if the guy can’t go all out, he needs to speak up. It also shows Andrus isn’t the leader type he was advertised, because if he knew, he should have said something.

True. I don't think it was a conscious lack of effort. It was he was sore and tight from the day before so he didn't want to risk injury but he still wanted to play. 

Maybe its a holdover from last year when they were told to back it down to decrease injury. The bottom line is they will be healthier if they tell the medical staff what is going on and not try to manage it themselves. 

[Soxfest]

It’s like everything else with this team excuse after excuse.

[soxfaninfl]

Someone said dysfunctional. Complete and total. Said a week ago, the Sox cannot let losing fester, that the damage will only get worse. Doubt we have hit the bottom of this well of dysfunction.

[pcq]

This is a non-issue. He was trying not to get injured. Next. 

[Balta1701]

49 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Don't disagree. Just saying what looks like is going on with the manager/medical staff with injuries. 

They aren't trusting the players to manage themselves. And I don't really blame them. 

But at the same time, they never sat down with Robert to come up with a clear understanding of what they needed each side to do and build a level of respect (and to introduce the bench coach). There’s no agreed on plan for how they’re going to keep Robert healthy, which I think everyone could have seen the need for after the last two years, and as a consequence he felt it acceptable to wing it. 

He shouldn’t do that, but it shouldn’t be a question, the coaching staff should have made expectations clear for each player well before today.

[caulfield12]

Will defer to Ptac on this one... pretty ridiculous now that more info is coming out that some are questioning Robert's parents? 

Why aren't we questioning Hahn's or Daryl Boston's as they don't seem to be taking care of their players very well... or demonstratiolng any empathy with one of the two key franchise players... the other being Cease. 

There doesn't seem to be a language or cultural misunderstanding issue here with Grifol and Montoyo... they can communicate fluently in Spanish. 

Just one more flashing warning indicator of something rotten to the core operationally. 

Frankly, it wouldn't be shocking to hear Robert and Boston have less of a relationship than Robert and Benetti. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But at the same time, they never sat down with Robert to come up with a clear understanding of what they needed each side to do and build a level of respect (and to introduce the bench coach). There’s no agreed on plan for how they’re going to keep Robert healthy, which I think everyone could have seen the need for after the last two years, and as a consequence he felt it acceptable to wing it. 

He shouldn’t do that, but it shouldn’t be a question, the coaching staff should have made expectations clear for each player well before today.

Do you know this? Not saying it isn't true. But is it this or is he willingly ignoring them and that is the reason for the benching. Without being inside the clubhouse we don't know.

Players in past decades would not tell the management things to keep playing. This group hasn't earned that with their injury history. 

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Do you know this? Not saying it isn't true. But is it this or is he willingly ignoring them and that is the reason for the benching. Without being inside the clubhouse we don't know.

Players in past decades would not tell the management things to keep playing. This group hasn't earned that with their injury history. 

If he’s willingly ignoring them, then I’d say they definitely never earned his respect, wouldn’t you? 

[soxfaninfl]

35 minutes ago, pcq said:

This is a non-issue. He was trying not to get injured. Next. 

And why do I think this may be a holdover from Jose? Think he always informed management when he didn’t feel 100%?

The mistake here was releasing the statement that Robert was pulled as a managerial decision. Throwing a player under the proverbial bus - publicly - almost always turns out badly especially on a team playing as poorly as the Sox. Say he was pulled as a precaution and deal with the issue in the clubhouse.

[The Kids Can Play]

10 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Robert doesn’t know the coaches names, doesn’t know who is in the line up. Why do I think if he was with another organization, he wouldn’t have these issues? This to me is an indictment of the White Sox organization.. He needs some mental development. Send him down. I think if he was a Ray, he might be MVP. They would have forced him to learn what he needs to know. Just more accountability issues.

You're absolutely right the Rays would make Robert or some others on this Sox team more productive. 

I have a story to share that will prove this. I was driving yesterday afternoon listening to ESPN radio and they had Jeff Passan on. I will paraphrase the interview. Jeff Passan was asked, why does he feel the Rays are always so good with such a small payroll. Passan stated an interesting fact about this years' Rays team you might find surprising, because for sure Jeff did. Of the 26 man roster for the Rays currently, it consists of seven home grown players through the Rays farm system, two free agents and the remaining 17 players via trades. Of course since the Rays have such a strong farm system yearly, they can afford to give up some of their prospects, or current players the Rays feel they have gotten the max out of and time to move on from. The Rays philosophy for many years has been to strategically evaluate players on all ML teams. The Rays look for specific players on reasonable contacts and that are underachieving, but in their mind have huge upside potential. The Rays have a proven track record of tweaking and developing these players off trades and making these players more productive with better results. This is a part of the Rays successful approach to player development, being forced to operate with one of the lowest payrolls each year.

 

[soxrwhite]

He must play hard all the time. If a player can not run hard without getting injured then is he an asset?

 

He is not in today's lineup. He is either benched or hurt. This guy has not played more than he has played in his career. Its always something. The best ABILITY is availABILITY.

Edited April 30, 2023 by soxrwhite

[TheBooneLoganEra]

17 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said:

And why do I think this may be a holdover from Jose? Think he always informed management when he didn’t feel 100%?

The mistake here was releasing the statement that Robert was pulled as a managerial decision. Throwing a player under the proverbial bus - publicly - almost always turns out badly especially on a team playing as poorly as the Sox. Say he was pulled as a precaution and deal with the issue in the clubhouse.

You say "turn out badly" but I don't really know how things could be worse. Time to throw all that aside and if these guys are playing with little to no effort embarrass them publicly. Nothing else is working. 

[JoeC]

15 minutes ago, soxrwhite said:

He must play hard all the time. If a player can not run hard without getting injured then is he an asset?

 

He is not in today's lineup. He is either benched or hurt. This guy has not played more than he has played in his career. Its always something. The best ABILITY is availABILITY.

Leury?

[hankchifan]

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

Omertà.

[soxfaninfl]

17 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

You say "turn out badly" but I don't really know how things could be worse. Time to throw all that aside and if these guys are playing with little to no effort embarrass them publicly. Nothing else is working. 

Nothing good comes from embarrassing anyone publicly.

[hankchifan]

39 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You're absolutely right the Rays would make Robert or some others on this Sox team more productive. 

I have a story to share that will prove this. I was driving yesterday afternoon listening to ESPN radio and they had Jeff Passan on. I will paraphrase the interview. Jeff Passan was asked, why does he feel the Rays are always so good with such a small payroll. Passan stated an interesting fact about this years' Rays team you might find surprising, because for sure Jeff did. Of the 26 man roster for the Rays currently, it consists of seven home grown players through the Rays farm system, two free agents and the remaining 17 players via trades. Of course since the Rays have such a strong farm system yearly, they can afford to give up some of their prospects, or current players the Rays feel they have gotten the max out of and time to move on from. The Rays philosophy for many years has been to strategically evaluate players on all ML teams. The Rays look for specific players on reasonable contacts and that are underachieving, but in their mind have huge upside potential. The Rays have a proven track record of tweaking and developing these players off trades and making these players more productive with better results. This is a part of the Rays successful approach to player development, being forced to operate with one of the lowest payrolls each year.

 

Couldn’t the Sox have hired a manager or at least a coach from the Rays instead of a losing organization like the Royals. Would have been a much better investment. IMO.

[ptatc]

59 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If he’s willingly ignoring them, then I’d say they definitely never earned his respect, wouldn’t you? 

No. Some people are just jerks or full if themselves and don't listen. That's a possibility but not a given. 

[ptatc]

32 minutes ago, soxrwhite said:

He must play hard all the time. If a player can not run hard without getting injured then is he an asset?

 

He is not in today's lineup. He is either benched or hurt. This guy has not played more than he has played in his career. Its always something. The best ABILITY is availABILITY.

No one is healthy all the time. With very few days off there are always small issues that can limit them. 

[The Kids Can Play]

1 minute ago, hankchifan said:

Couldn’t the Sox have hired a manager or at least a coach from the Rays instead of a losing organization like the Royals. Would have been a much better investment. IMO.

You're absolutely right it would have been a much better investment and a more logical choice, but then look at the Sox FO loser who made that dumb decision to pick from a losing organization versus a winning organization.

"Stupid is as Stupid Does!"

[soxfaninfl]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

No. Some people are just jerks or full if themselves and don't listen. That's a possibility but not a given. 

But wouldn’t it be more of a possibility considering how poorly the team is playing as a whole?

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said:

Nothing good comes from embarrassing anyone publicly.

See St. Louis Cardinals this year... 

[ptatc]

6 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said:

But wouldn’t it be more of a possibility considering how poorly the team is playing as a whole?

Its a possibility but players performance isn't necessarily tied to it. After 30+ years of working with athletes I'm biased but it's usually the athletes that have the out of control egos. 

When Grifol was hired there were many players who loved and respected the guy and reaved about him. 

Without knowing the people involved it could be either. I wouldn't jump to conclusions either way. 

[The Mighty Mite]

17 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Couldn’t the Sox have hired a manager or at least a coach from the Rays instead of a losing organization like the Royals. Would have been a much better investment. IMO.

Grifol would have not been my pick for manager but I’m not blaming him for this mess, he was hired by a dysfunctional organization with a bunch of bad players. His hiring is equivalent to being named Captain of the Titanic after it struck the iceberg.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You're absolutely right the Rays would make Robert or some others on this Sox team more productive. 

I have a story to share that will prove this. I was driving yesterday afternoon listening to ESPN radio and they had Jeff Passan on. I will paraphrase the interview. Jeff Passan was asked, why does he feel the Rays are always so good with such a small payroll. Passan stated an interesting fact about this years' Rays team you might find surprising, because for sure Jeff did. Of the 26 man roster for the Rays currently, it consists of seven home grown players through the Rays farm system, two free agents and the remaining 17 players via trades. Of course since the Rays have such a strong farm system yearly, they can afford to give up some of their prospects, or current players the Rays feel they have gotten the max out of and time to move on from. The Rays philosophy for many years has been to strategically evaluate players on all ML teams. The Rays look for specific players on reasonable contacts and that are underachieving, but in their mind have huge upside potential. The Rays have a proven track record of tweaking and developing these players off trades and making these players more productive with better results. This is a part of the Rays successful approach to player development, being forced to operate with one of the lowest payrolls each year.

 

Or is this why no one outbid the Sox for him? The Sox don't typically spend the most on a player. 

Maybe it's a Jalen Carter situation and everyone else passed. 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Or is this why no one outbid the Sox for him? The Sox don't typically spend the most on a player. 

Maybe it's a Jalen Carter situation and everyone else passed. 

For Robert? From what I recall, there were teams in the penalty box for going over international spending prior years (Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, etc). The usual teams that would spend.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Bob Sacamano