Rick Hahn Right Field Success Tracker

[4uckOffCommieScum]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

I looked up Avis stats and, boy. You can tell Kim Ng came from the white Sox. Great signing.

Avi left the Sox signing a one year 3.5 million deal and put up a 2.2 WAR season. The Sox signed Jay for 4 million and he put up a -0.7 WAR season while other Sox rightfielders Cordell put up -0.6 and Tilson a -0.7. So they cost themselves more than four war while spending more compared to playing Avi everyday. But yeah, Avi sucking now for Miami is relevant

[Ducksnort]

24 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Avi left the Sox signing a one year 3.5 million deal and put up a 2.2 WAR season. The Sox signed Jay for 4 million and he put up a -0.7 WAR season while other Sox rightfielders Cordell put up -0.6 and Tilson a -0.7. So they cost themselves more than four war while spending more compared to playing Avi everyday. But yeah, Avi sucking now for Miami is relevant

According to Hawk Avi was supposed to win multiple MVP's and future HOF'r

[4uckOffCommieScum]

2 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

According to Hawk Avi was supposed to win multiple MVP's and future HOF'r

Ok? That doesn’t mean signing Jay for more wasn’t another garbage move by the front office

[The Kids Can Play]

21 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

When Adam Eaton played there for a year before being traded, that was probably the best we’ve had during Hahn’s stint.

He was and let's not forget in the 2016 rebuild another of Hahn debacles, after the Chris Sale trade, the next big asset trade was Adam Eaton. That of course brought us Giolito, Lopez and Dunning. Dunning of course brought us Lynn. I get hindsight is 20/20, but right now that isn't going down as one of Hahn's best trades on his final scorecard ledger.

[Lip Man 1]

Found this quote interesting today in a story at MLB.com:

“Not much has gone right on the South Side,” an AL executive said of the Sox, who ended April with an 8-21 record. “They might be forced to rebuild the rebuild.”

[bmags]

36 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Ok? That doesn’t mean signing Jay for more wasn’t another garbage move by the front office

Yes, that was my me, praising the Sox front office by pointing out that Kim Ng making a shitty signing was because she started in the Sox front office. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

11 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

He was and let's not forget in the 2016 rebuild another of Hahn debacles, after the Chris Sale trade, the next big asset trade was Adam Eaton. That of course brought us Giolito, Lopez and Dunning. Dunning of course brought us Lynn. I get hindsight is 20/20, but right now that isn't going down as one of Hahn's best trades on his final scorecard ledger.

It isn’t? Eaton put up a grand total of 2.3 WAR with the Nats. Gio has had 5.5 and 4.8 seasons and currently on pace for 4+ war season. Lance Lynn a 5.5 war season. Reynaldo has put up a total 4.7 WAR since trade. Not great but still more than Eaton on his own. They even got 0.1 WAR from Dunning in 2020, the same year Eaton went -0.7 for the Nats. Only one of those seasons from Gio or Lynn made that a good trade for the Sox

[The Kids Can Play]

18 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

It isn’t? Eaton put up a grand total of 2.3 WAR with the Nats. Gio has had 5.5 and 4.8 seasons and currently on pace for 4+ war season. Lance Lynn a 5.5 war season. Reynaldo has put up a total 4.7 WAR since trade. Not great but still more than Eaton on his own. They even got 0.1 WAR from Dunning in 2020, the same year Eaton went -0.7 for the Nats. Only one of those seasons from Gio or Lynn made that a good trade for the Sox

 

19 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

It isn’t? Eaton put up a grand total of 2.3 WAR with the Nats. Gio has had 5.5 and 4.8 seasons and currently on pace for 4+ war season. Lance Lynn a 5.5 war season. Reynaldo has put up a total 4.7 WAR since trade. Not great but still more than Eaton on his own. They even got 0.1 WAR from Dunning in 2020, the same year Eaton went -0.7 for the Nats. Only one of those seasons from Gio or Lynn made that a good trade for the Sox

It's not about what Eaton did playing for the Nats. The point of a trade in a rebuild, is to get as much great value as you can trading away a major asset. At the time the Nats needed a CF'er leadoff man and Eaton was valuable and coming off three great years with the Sox.

Gio as a former first round Nats pick, in his only season with the Nats in 6 games and 4 starts had a 6.75 ERA and whip of 1.78. The Nats gave up on Gio, hence why he was part of the trade. Lopez in 11 games and 6 starts in his one Nat's season had a 4.91 ERA and WHIP of 1.57. Dunning hadn't even played yet for the Nats and only had a couple of games of experience in the minors. Although many experts at the time said Dunning might be the best of all three pitchers down the road.

Dunning is only 28 and doing good for the Rangers, where as Lynn had one good season for the Sox in 2021. In 2022 he was average at best with 3.99 ERA and in 2023 Lynn has been simply horrible with his 7.16 ERA. Gio had one good year for us. Lopez has been extremely inconsistent and once again horrible this year with a 8.76 ERA and now suffering from a supposedly "dead arm."

So yeah it's not going to be one of Hahn's great trades in the very end.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

Well the entire career WAR for adam eaton is 18.3, including the vast majority from his time with Sox. Not sure how you can expect to get more than what the Sox got for that. It’s not like they traded Mookie Betts They have received over 20 WAR including two starters who received CY votes in a total of four seasons for guy who subsequently produced less than 3 WAR. Not to mention whatever the get when they trade Gio. No way that was a bad trade

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

 

It's not about what Eaton did playing for the Nats. The point of a trade in a rebuild, is to get as much great value as you can trading away a major asset. At the time the Nats needed a CF'er leadoff man and Eaton was valuable and coming off three great years with the Sox.

Gio as a former first round Nats pick, in his only season with the Nats in 6 games and 4 starts had a 6.75 ERA and whip of 1.78. The Nats gave up on Gio, hence why he was part of the trade. Lopez in 11 games and 6 starts in his one Nat's season had a 4.91 ERA and WHIP of 1.57. Dunning hadn't even played yet for the Nats and only had a couple of games of experience in the minors. Although many experts at the time said Dunning might be the best of all three pitchers down the road.

Dunning is only 28 and doing good for the Rangers, where as Lynn had one good season for the Sox in 2021. In 2022 he was average at best with 3.99 ERA and in 2023 Lynn has been simply horrible with his 7.16 ERA. Gio had one good year for us. Lopez has been extremely inconsistent and once again horrible this year with a 8.76 ERA and now suffering from a supposedly "dead arm."

So yeah it's not going to be one of Hahn's great trades in the very end.

From a story at MLB.com today a polling of MLB executives showed Giolito getting the most votes as "likely to be traded." Anderson and Lynn also got votes. Sox were the only team on the list with three players.

"Talk to me after the parade!" ? 

[pcq]

2 hours ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

According to Hawk Avi was supposed to win multiple MVP's and future HOF'r

This has already happened in a parallel universe. Avi and Eloy together in the OF.

[MEANS]

where the Bridge?!? Lillibridge

[The Kids Can Play]

13 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

From a story at MLB.com today a polling of MLB executives showed Giolito getting the most votes as "likely to be traded." Anderson and Lynn also got votes. Sox were the only team on the list with three players.

"Talk to me after the parade!" ? 

Like most Sox fans, I'm so excited that Rick Hahn and Kenny will be in charge of the trades. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

 

It's not about what Eaton did playing for the Nats. The point of a trade in a rebuild, is to get as much great value as you can trading away a major asset. At the time the Nats needed a CF'er leadoff man and Eaton was valuable and coming off three great years with the Sox.

Gio as a former first round Nats pick, in his only season with the Nats in 6 games and 4 starts had a 6.75 ERA and whip of 1.78. The Nats gave up on Gio, hence why he was part of the trade. Lopez in 11 games and 6 starts in his one Nat's season had a 4.91 ERA and WHIP of 1.57. Dunning hadn't even played yet for the Nats and only had a couple of games of experience in the minors. Although many experts at the time said Dunning might be the best of all three pitchers down the road.

Dunning is only 28 and doing good for the Rangers, where as Lynn had one good season for the Sox in 2021. In 2022 he was average at best with 3.99 ERA and in 2023 Lynn has been simply horrible with his 7.16 ERA. Gio had one good year for us. Lopez has been extremely inconsistent and once again horrible this year with a 8.76 ERA and now suffering from a supposedly "dead arm."

So yeah it's not going to be one of Hahn's great trades in the very end.

Gio had better than just one good season... 

[The Kids Can Play]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Gio had better than just one good season... 

Ok maybe you could find a second decent season I will give you that possibility. At this point does it really matter whether it's one or maybe two or whatever number you want to debate? The fact is, overall in his career in a White Sox uniform, he has been a big disappointment. Hence why most people in here have wanted him traded...which he probably will be at the trade deadline. 

[South Side Hit Men]

With Colas in Charlotte and Romy on the IL, Gavin Sheets is the current regular starting RFer vs. RHP (Eloy will perhaps start against select LHP).

 

 

[Ducksnort]

8 hours ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Ok? That doesn’t mean signing Jay for more wasn’t another garbage move by the front office

Chill, I was just making an observation.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

1 hour ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

Chill, I was just making an observation.

Sure thing buddy

[South Side Hit Men]

Updated in today's game thread. Rightfield performance during the White Sox "Multi-Championship" Window.

Trying to salvage Colas is the only logical step at this point. Would likely be far better for his development working directly with Grifol like Robert has versus pwning AAA pitching and learning nothing.

Games Started Player Salary Overall bWAR

Cumulative Negative bWAR for Projected starters through yesterday -1.3

2023 Rightfield - Projected Starter Oscar Colas

• 18 Colas $0.7M -0.9
• 16 Sheets $0.7M 0.3
• 4 Haseley $0.7M 0.1
• 4 Gonzalez $0.7M -1.0
• 3 Jimenez $10.3M 0.2
• 1 Marisnick $0.7M 0.0

2022 Rightfield - Projected Starter A.J. Pollock

• 78 Sheets $0.7M -0.4
• 39 Vaughn $0.7M -0.2
• 27 Engel $2.0M 0.0
• 11 Pollock $14.5M -0.3
• 5 Garcia $5.5M -1.0
• 1 Haseley $0.7M 0.1
• 1 Gonzalez $0.7M -0.3

2021 Rightfield - Projected Starter A. Eaton 

• 48 Eaton $8.0M 0.0
• 33 Goodwin $0.7M -0.5
• 28 Garcia $3.5M 2.1
• 14 Vaughn $0.7M 0.1
• 11 Sheets $0.7M 0.2
• 8 Engel $1.4M 1.5
• 8 Lamb $1.0M 0.0
• 7 Mendick $0.7M -0.4
• 2 R. Gonzalez $0.7M -0.1
• 2 L. Gonzalez $0.7M 0.1
• 1 Hamilton $1.0M -0.1

2020 Rightfield - Projected Starter N. Mazara

• 38 Mazara $5.6M -0.1
• 16 Engel $0.6M 0.6
• 4 Delmanico $0.6M -0.4
• 1 Garcia $3.3M 0.7
• 1 Dyson $2.0M -0.1

[caulfield12]

On 5/4/2023 at 4:13 AM, The Kids Can Play said:

Ok maybe you could find a second decent season I will give you that possibility. At this point does it really matter whether it's one or maybe two or whatever number you want to debate? The fact is, overall in his career in a White Sox uniform, he has been a big disappointment. Hence why most people in here have wanted him traded...which he probably will be at the trade deadline. 

They want him traded because he's the #21 starter (and climbing today)  and all the potentially better FA's other than Ohtani are pitching much worse.  That and they don't want to see Giolito walk for no return. 

So now arguably one of the five most valuable DDL trade targets... and they desperately need to get more pitching for the future/general young and cheap/cost-controlled. 

[The Kids Can Play]

15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

They want him traded because he's the #21 starter (and climbing today)  and all the potentially better FA's other than Ohtani are pitching much worse.  That and they don't want to see Giolito walk for no return. 

So now arguably one of the five most valuable DDL trade targets... and they desperately need to get more pitching for the future/general young and cheap/cost-controlled. 

Very strange you go back and find a post we debated from almost three weeks ago on 5-3-23. You are also taking my points out of context. All I told you was he hasn't been the pitcher we thought he would be. Yes you can easily now go back with his last three starts from this post and build up the value of Giolito since he has put together three straight good starts. However I'm curious though, if Gio would have had three straight bad outings and losses, would you still go hunt down this post from 5-3-23?  

Your last point is how the Sox will be trading Gio.  All you are doing is repeating what I told you the Sox would be doing with Gio at the trade 2023 deadline. The only point you seem to be adding is that he will now be worth more on a trade, because again, you are cheating and going back three starts to an old post. 

Having said that, be careful about pumping your chest and getting too cocky. Looking at the number of starts left for Giolito before the deadline, provided he isn't injured, he has around 12 more starts. There is no guarantee he keeps this hot pace up and maybe fall off and maybe not finish so well by the TDL 

Let's also get one final thing straight. I am not against Giolito. In fact, I hope he does really well the rest of the way until the TDL. I want his trade value going up so we can get a better haul of prospects when we trade him. 

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Very strange you go back and find a post we debated from almost three weeks ago on 5-3-23. You are also taking my points out of context. All I told you was he hasn't been the pitcher we thought he would be. Yes you can easily now go back with his last three starts from this post and build up the value of Giolito since he has put together three straight good starts. However I'm curious though, if Gio would have had three straight bad outings and losses, would you still go hunt down this post from 5-3-23?  

Your last point is how the Sox will be trading Gio.  All you are doing is repeating what I told you the Sox would be doing with Gio at the trade 2023 deadline. The only point you seem to be adding is that he will now be worth more on a trade, because again, you are cheating and going back three starts to an old post. 

Having said that, be careful about pumping your chest and getting too cocky. Looking at the number of starts left for Giolito before the deadline, provided he isn't injured, he has around 12 more starts. There is no guarantee he keeps this hot pace up and maybe fall off and maybe not finish so well by the TDL 

Let's also get one final thing straight. I am not against Giolito. In fact, I hope he does really well the rest of the way until the TDL. I want his trade value going up so we can get a better haul of prospects when we trade him. 

Okay. 

Well, that's the thing about baseball. 

It's a what have you done for me lately sport. 

Look at Robert and Burger right now. Or Joe Kelly. 

Recency bias. It's definitely crushing Tim Anderson right now, or Jose Abreu. 

A year ago, Giolito and Jose Berrios were at the very bottom of MLB... where Kopech was until yesterday (now 70/73 out of qualified.) 

 

Another example, 2-3 years ago, the Brewers wouldn't have traded Keston Hiura for anyone. 

"PHOENIX -- Keston Hiura remains in the Milwaukee Brewers organization. After the Brewers couldn't find a trade fit for the infielder and former top prospect over the weekend, he cleared waivers and was outrighted to Triple-A Nashville on Tuesday."

Still surprised Hahn thought Sosa Andrus Romy would be better at second.  Well, perhaps surprised isn't quite the right word. 

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by caulfield12