Nightengale: Gio won't be on 2024 White Sox

[T R U]

Rick Hahn is definitely the worst GM in the league and its because anyone else as bad as he has been has LONG SINCE BEEN FIRED BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO WHEN YOUR GM HAS FAILED CONSTANTLY.

[Texsox]

This made me realize something. Next year there will be some guys in Sox uniforms and I'm going to cheer for them. Some I would have selected for the team, others I would have not selected. So if I know I'm going to cheer, why worry or complain about the process? s%*# players, all stars, it doesn't make a difference. 

[South Side Hit Men]

This would have been an awesome roster in 2019, perhaps a World Series winner. This payroll was less than their 2019 tanking payroll.

Smart Roster: $72.4M 53.4 bWAR

Hahn Roster: $88.9M 23.8 bWAR

2019 OPS / bWAR (2019 Age Salary):

Lineup $33.4M 31.1 bWAR

1. CF T. Anderson .865 4.2 (26 $1.4M)
2. RF F. Tatis Jr. .969 4.2 (20 $0.6M)
3. SS M. Semien .892 8.5 (28 $5.9M)
4. 1B J. Abreu .834 2.5 (32 $16.0M)
5. 3B Y. Moncada .915 5.2 (24 $0.6M)
6. LF E. Jimenez .828 1.5 (22 $1.8M)
7.  C J. McCann .789 3.6 (29 $2.5M)
8. DH Y. Alonso .576 -1.0 (32 $8.0M) <= Hahn traded for this 12/18 while tanking. WTF.
9. 2B Y. Sanchez .638 1.4 (27 $4.6M)

Bench  $3.9M 3.0 bWAR

• C J. Phegley .693 0.3 (31 $1.1M)
• INF D. Mendick .787 0.5 (25 $0.6M)
• INF/OF L. Garcia .688 1.3 (28 $1.6M)
• OF A. Engel .687 0.9 (27 $0.6M)

Rotation $11.6M 12.4 bWAR

1. SP L. Giolito 5.5 (24 $0.6M)
2. SP F. Montas 2.6 (26 $0.6M)
3. SP C. Bassitt 2.1 (30 $0.6M)
4. SP I. Nova 1.9 (32 $9.2M)
5. SP R. Lopez 0.3 (25 $0.6M)

Bullpen $23.5M 6.9 bWAR

1. A. Colome 0.9 (30 $7.3M)
2. A. Bummer 2.8 (25 $0.6M)
3. E. Marshall 1.7 (29 $0.6M)
4. K. Herrera -0.4 (29 $8.5M) <= Hahn gonna Hahn
5. N. Jones 0.2 (33 $4.7M)
6. J. Cordero 1.0 (27 $0.6M)
7. J. Osich 0.4 (30 $0.6M)
8. J. Minaya 0.3 (28 $0.6M)

 

[Tnetennba]

3 hours ago, Rocky said:

Return? 

We've been there for years. 

Sadly, this is true.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

This would have been an awesome roster in 2019, perhaps a World Series winner. This payroll was less than their 2019 tanking payroll.

Smart Roster: $72.4M 53.4 bWAR

Hahn Roster: $88.9M 23.8 bWAR

2019 OPS / bWAR (2019 Age Salary):

Lineup $33.4M 31.1 bWAR

1. CF T. Anderson .865 4.2 (26 $1.4M)
2. RF F. Tatis Jr. .969 4.2 (20 $0.6M)
3. SS M. Semien .892 8.5 (28 $5.9M)
4. 1B J. Abreu .834 2.5 (32 $16.0M)
5. 3B Y. Moncada .915 5.2 (24 $0.6M)
6. LF E. Jimenez .828 1.5 (22 $1.8M)
7.  C J. McCann .789 3.6 (29 $2.5M)
8. DH Y. Alonso .576 -1.0 (32 $8.0M) <= Hahn traded for this 12/18 while tanking. WTF.
9. 2B Y. Sanchez .638 1.4 (27 $4.6M)

Bench  $3.9M 3.0 bWAR

• C J. Phegley .693 0.3 (31 $1.1M)
• INF D. Mendick .787 0.5 (25 $0.6M)
• INF/OF L. Garcia .688 1.3 (28 $1.6M)
• OF A. Engel .687 0.9 (27 $0.6M)

Rotation $11.6M 12.4 bWAR

1. SP L. Giolito 5.5 (24 $0.6M)
2. SP F. Montas 2.6 (26 $0.6M)
3. SP C. Bassitt 2.1 (30 $0.6M)
4. SP I. Nova 1.9 (32 $9.2M)
5. SP R. Lopez 0.3 (25 $0.6M)

Bullpen $23.5M 6.9 bWAR

1. A. Colome 0.9 (30 $7.3M)
2. A. Bummer 2.8 (25 $0.6M)
3. E. Marshall 1.7 (29 $0.6M)
4. K. Herrera -0.4 (29 $8.5M) <= Hahn gonna Hahn
5. N. Jones 0.2 (33 $4.7M)
6. J. Cordero 1.0 (27 $0.6M)
7. J. Osich 0.4 (30 $0.6M)
8. J. Minaya 0.3 (28 $0.6M)

 

Throw in all the rumors we were in on signing Soto and Vladdy Jr. and Acuna...at least one of the three, but came up short financially. 

Or throw Machado/Wheeler into the mix as well... 

[chetkincaid]

Giolito has to be looking for a fresh start away from this organization. I’d be interested in knowing how many players and coaches for that matter actually want to be here. I bet Katz won’t be here for long either. 

[ron883]

Trade him. Tear this s%*# down. 

[bighurt4life]

9 hours ago, GreatScott82 said:

Seems like you can only pull up a handful of quality deals Hahn has executed over his tenure. I would have to admit- during the rebuild- I applauded many of his moves. However, he failed to round out a complete roster. He failed to continue to replenish the farm to build up better prospect capital.  There are a plethora of bad free agent signings and bad trades as well. To me, you can simply rank a GM based on overall win %. His is the worst during his 10 years as GM as it stands. And most other GM's were fired after 4-5 years with a similar win %. Must be nice to have some sort of accountability.  Yes, my response might have been hyperbole. But the #'s are pretty obvious. He's bad. The last time I checked, the Sox STILL don't have a RF. That's on Hahn.

No argument from me that it’s time for him to go. Totally agree that he would’ve been shitcanned in nearly any other organization by now.
 

I think it’s clear that reinsdorf’s top priority is turning a profit and not winning. He just wants to give the illusion of trying to field a competitive team because that helps his bottom line. I can’t think of any other reason for his keeping poor performers around. 

[oldsox]

What are the terms of Hahn's contract?

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

56 minutes ago, oldsox said:

What are the terms of Hahn's contract?

That contract is locked up behind Jerry's super double secret probation rules. Signed in blood.

[wegner]

26 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

That contract is locked up behind Jerry's super double secret probation rules. Signed in blood.

While we all chant....thank you sir, may I have another.

[TaylorStSox]

21 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Worst GM or not, why in God's name would he be allowed yet another shot to rebuild when he failed in that endeavor as well as failing to compete on the fly from 2013-2016? 

What exactly can he do well... besides trade very favorable controlled contracts for those three younger  Sox players? 

 

Let's not forget when he traded Frazier Kahnle Robertson etc., to the Yankees, he got ripped off. 

And the Tatis trade, when all is said and done, will cost how much in lost fWAR? 

I'd fire him simply because it's a results driven league and his teams haven't produced. However, the collection of talent he was able to put together in the rebuild was pretty extraordinary. I'm angry at the outcome, but I think, for the most part, Hahn did his job. It just didn't work out and we have to move on. I won't ever feel any ill will toward Rick Hahn. 

With that said, the Tatis deal is probably the worst in Sox history and might be fireable on it's own. Kudos to some of the guys on the FutureSox board who had him pegged as an elite, elite prospect before he came close to blowing up. It was probably the best example of amateur scouting I've seen on the internet. 

Gio moving on is suprise to noone. Most of us just thought we'd be in a better place when it happened. Personally, I wouldn't sign him to a mega deal. He's talented and has very good stuff, but his stuff isn't good enough to pitch through a lot of adversity. 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by TaylorStSox

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I'd fire him simply because it's a results driven league and his teams haven't produced. However, the collection of talent he was able to put together in the rebuild was pretty extraordinary. I'm angry at the outcome, but I think, for the most part, Hahn did his job. It just didn't work out and we have to move on. I won't ever feel any ill will toward Rick Hahn. 

With that said, the Tatis deal is probably the worst in Sox history and might be fireable on it's own. Kudos to some of the guys on the FutureSox board who had him pegged as an elite, elite prospect before he came close to blowing up. It was probably the best example of amateur scouting I've seen on the internet. 

Gio moving on is suprise to noone. Most of us just thought we'd be in a better place when it happened. Personally, I wouldn't sign him to a mega deal. He's talented and has very good stuff, but his stuff isn't good enough to pitch through a lot of adversity. 

 

I'd like to see the list of everyone in on Tatis before Keith Law was saying he was going to debut quite high on his Top 100 list... he just skyrocketed from that moment on. the scouting radar, like this 16 year old Salas kid (catcher) that Law also pointed out in recent weeks is going to be one of the best prospects in the game, eventually. 

[TaylorStSox]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

I'd like to see the list of everyone in on Tatis before Keith Law was saying he was going to debut quite high on his Top 100 list... he just skyrocketed from that moment on. the scouting radar, like this 16 year old Salas kid (catcher) that Law also pointed out in recent weeks is going to be one of the best prospects in the game, eventually. 

A couple of the Future Sox guys were on him right when he signed, long before Law ever saw him. I'm not joking when I say it was the best internet fan scouting I've ever seen. I remember one of the guys  was a regular on that board who was from California and rarely posted on the main board. Lots of posts, but I can't remember his screen name. 

It was the classic, wrists/bat speed/sound off the bat. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by TaylorStSox

[caulfield12]

Well, one thing's for sure, the Padres had 4 individual scouts in on him, and Preller himself.

 

 

(For the record, I think SD never should have added either Clevinger or Soto, in terms of their long run financial sustainability, and that their starting pitching and bullpen as currently constituted is going to coming up short in the playoffs...barring significant changes. 

Also, James Wood, involved in the Soto trade, is getting rave reviews nearly across the board.  That said, an .847 in High A isn't quite destroying the league, at least not yet.)

[oldsox]

8 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

I'd like to see the list of everyone in on Tatis before Keith Law was saying he was going to debut quite high on his Top 100 list... he just skyrocketed from that moment on. the scouting radar, like this 16 year old Salas kid (catcher) that Law also pointed out in recent weeks is going to be one of the best prospects in the game, eventually. 

Tatis was just a name when Hahn traded him, because he had not yet played in pro ball.  The fact is, we had just given him a bonus of around $800,000.  So, let's play him and see what we have.  But, no, our dope gives him up for a guy who couldn't get anyone out as a Padre (Shields).  I would love to have heard the conversation between Preller and our Dope.

Then, Padres played him, and Law wrote him up.  Law reportedly was shocked when he heard that our Dope included Tatis on that trade.  For the record, I was, too, and made a brief comment to that effect on SoxTalk a day or two after the trade.

[caulfield12]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=tatis-000Eli

Career .389 ops and .140 batting average, one measly homer in 253 plate appearances, 93 k's

$500,000

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=tatis-000Eli

Career .389 ops and .140 batting average, one measly homer in 253 plate appearances, 93 k's

$500,000

 

I don't mind taking swings.

[White Sox Park]

If this team ever had any postseason aspirations, they have been very good at hiding it . trading deadline? . does this even matter anymore, when this team is run by total fucking idiots . I was really hoping for something in this rebuild, but this abject failure, is living proof that this team is going absolutely nowhere for years to come . great . just great.

[Snopek]

On 5/8/2023 at 6:53 AM, joejoesox said:

yeah I gotta disagree that they have the talent. they are injury prone up and down the entire 26man roster and the depth/bench guys who have to fill in are AAAA guys who wouldn't sniff a call up on any top 10 team in baseball

Yep, and in addition to the injuries and lack of depth, I am actually getting pretty tired of hearing about the potential and talent of the core guys. We've been hearing for a couple years now how good the team is "on paper" and how much talent they have. I'm at the point now where I think the talent has been overrated and/or the Sox just don't have the ability to harness that talent.

[Lip Man 1]

31 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Yep, and in addition to the injuries and lack of depth, I am actually getting pretty tired of hearing about the potential and talent of the core guys. We've been hearing for a couple years now how good the team is "on paper" and how much talent they have. I'm at the point now where I think the talent has been overrated and/or the Sox just don't have the ability to harness that talent.

The core guys can't even stay healthy and play together.