Is Vaughn a good enough 1b to rebuild around?

[Greg Hibbard]

I don’t even know. I really like Vaughn, and he literally just turned 25. But I wonder if he has enough power in his bat to be enough at that position- where you absolutely have to have power. We don’t need 25 home runs and 30 doubles and 40 walks and a .250 average. We need at .270/.870 hitter who is going to hit 35-40 bombs reliably. Can he become that guy? I want him to. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Greg Hibbard

[ron883]

He's rocking a cool 0.0 fWAR. He probably isn't good enough. Needed more out of that high draft pick. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I don’t even know. I really like Vaughn, and he literally just turned 25. But I wonder if he has enough power in his bat to be enough at that position- where you absolutely have to have power. We don’t need 25 home runs and 30 doubles and 40 walks and a .250 average. We need at .270/.870 hitter who is going to hit 35-40 bombs reliably. Can he become that guy? I want him to. 

That's more like Pete Alonso.

Not sure if he will ever come close to that profile.

The number of guys who average 35-40 bombs per season reliably can be counted on less than two hands across all positions.

[South Side Hit Men]

He’s adequate at or not much above the minimum $700k salary.

He should grow into more power as he reaches his expected peak seasons.

Hahn Draft Career White Sox bWAR:

(Active, Highest Minors Reached if zero MLB time and retired)

Round One (30.8)

• 2013 Tim Anderson 18.2
• 2014 Carlos Rodon 11.2
• 2015 Carlson Fulmer -1.3
• 2016 Zach Burdi -0.6
• 2016 Zach Collins -1.0 +
• 2017 Jake Burger 0.8
• 2018 Nick Madrigal 1.7 #
• 2019 Andrew Vaughn 0.2
• 2020 Garrett Crochet 1.6
• 2021 Colson Montgomery (AA IL)
• 2022 Noah Schultz (IL TBD)

Round Two (0.2)

• 2013 Tyler Danish 0.0
• 2014 Spencer Adams (AAA)
• 2016 Alec Hansen (AA)
• 2017 Gavin Sheets 0.2
• 2018 Steele Walker 0.0 *
• 2019 Matt Thompson (AA)
• 2020 Jered Kelley (A+)
• 2021 Wes Kath (A+)
• 2022 Peyton Pallette (A)

Note*: Traded for Nomar Mazara -0.1.
Note +: Traded for Reese McGuire 0.0.
Note #: Traded with Codi Heuer 0.8 for Craig Kimbrel 0.0.

[Tnetennba]

Short answer, no, probably not.  He would need to drastically improve his defense at 1B to cover for his subpar power bat for me to think he’s a rebuild cornerstone.  So far there really isn’t one single thing that is special about his game to my eyes.  He probably doesn’t bring back much in trade, but to this point he is very replaceable. 

[bmags]

I'll say this for Vaughn. If we didn't have him, we'd have a cycle of 36-37 y.o. free agent 1B that were good 4 years ago and are on their way to retire. He is definitely outperforming that hypothetical with 0 WAR and at only a few million.

So it took the 3rd overall pick, but it's saving Hahn a bunch of edwin encarnacions.

Like I'd bet Carlos Santana would be our 1b without Vaughn. And uh, woops ok so he has a higher WAR due to DH but we are getting a nice 20% more offense and a cool $6 million back in JR's bank.

Huge W for Jerry.

[Jerry McNertney]

I see Vaughn as a career .260-.270 hitter with 15-20 home runs and 75-85 RBI annually. He's pretty much an average ML player offensively with below  average defense and power for a quality first baseman.

[Tnetennba]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

I'll say this for Vaughn. If we didn't have him, we'd have a cycle of 36-37 y.o. free agent 1B that were good 4 years ago and are on their way to retire. He is definitely outperforming that hypothetical with 0 WAR and at only a few million.

So it took the 3rd overall pick, but it's saving Hahn a bunch of edwin encarnacions.

Like I'd bet Carlos Santana would be our 1b without Vaughn. And uh, woops ok so he has a higher WAR due to DH but we are getting a nice 20% more offense and a cool $6 million back in JR's bank.

Huge W for Jerry.

They would most certainly have a long parade of washed up vets playing 1B.  And would still put Sheets in RF.  Because, White Sox. 

[TheBooneLoganEra]

I still think the power is in there. It's going to take a little while away from Menechino for some of these guys to break away from what he was pushing. If he hasn't flashed the power by the end of the year, or had say a month or two where he pops 10 hr, then maybe start to explore other options. But I'd definitely hang onto him. 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Jerry McNertney said:

I see Vaughn as a career .260-.270 hitter with 15-20 home runs and 75-85 RBI annually. He's pretty much an average ML player offensively with below  average defense and power for a quality first baseman.

eh, this is silly. He was above average last year offensively. He's above average this year. It's just average for a first baseman. He's 14th out of 31 qualified 1st baseman in wRC+. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

He was never going to be a big power guy.  So it's not surprising to not see him hit 30.  I will say it's surprising to not see him walk way more, hit for a higher average and struggle to get to even 20 homers.  I think we all reasonably expected a .285. 360++OBP and 25 homer guy. I'm not sure he can do that anymore.  He feels very.... James Loney to me at this point.. eek.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[EloyJenkins]

Vaughn and Seth Beer were both "polished" college bats that were can't miss on the offensive side coming out of the draft. Seth just got DFA'd and Vaughn can't lay off outside sliders and isn't near the 300 type hitter that was promised. I like him, but def feel that he won't be a foundational player at all, which is really sad. 

[LittleHurtCG]

14 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Vaughn and Seth Beer were both "polished" college bats that were can't miss on the offensive side coming out of the draft. Seth just got DFA'd and Vaughn can't lay off outside sliders and isn't near the 300 type hitter that was promised. I like him, but def feel that he won't be a foundational player at all, which is really sad. 

The Sox did Vaughn no favors by trying to play him in the outfield the past few seasons. That being said, the dude's bat has not been top 3 draft pick worthy at all so far. 

The Sox didn't lose enough games back in the tanking years. They could have had Ruschtman or Bobby Witt Junior instead of Vaughn. 

[joejoesox]

I don't think Vaughn is trying to hit 30 jacks. He's got the power but I don't think he's willing to sacrifice that much average and obp to get there. I'm sure if he wanted to be Cincy Dunn he could probably accomplish it with a higher avg, I just don't think his confidence is there yet 

[baseball_gal_aly]

No. 

/thread

[Bob Sacamano]

If a team wants to give you prospects for him, deal him. But being controlled for 3 years, I lean towards holding onto him and seeing if he has more value next year or after next year.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[The Kids Can Play]

You guys are missing a few big points.

1, He was a third overall draft pick which as we now know was probably a bad use of that high of a draft pick by Hahn. There were other more pressing needs. Having said that, do you have a first baseman in this organization to replace him if in fact you plan on trading him?

2. Go check the Sox 26th ranked farm system. I've looked at all levels and I assure you there isn't a good 1B in Charlotte or Birmingham to step up right now and produce Andrew Vaughn like numbers.

3. Since all of you are down on Vaughn that he isn't worth building around, and I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong. However playing devil's advocate, if Vaughn isn't that good, why in the hell would other ML teams give the Sox a ton of great prospects for Vaughn, since as many of you said...he is an average first baseman. 

3. Give the position to Gavin Sheets. Gavin Sheets is probably a worse fielder at first than Vaughn and clearly isn't even close to Vaughn's run production. 

4. I know the batting average isn't as high as we expected from Vaughn. I do think it will get better. The home runs aren't there either. Maybe in time he can be a 20-25 HR guy. However he is on target to drive in 120 runs. We have nobody on this team can do that like Vaughn. The fact is you have to keep a few players in a rebuild and he is only 25 yrs old.

5. Speaking of RBI's, Jose Abreu never hit more than 36 HR's in a season and  usually in the low 30's or below. However Jose was a RBI machine driving in over 100 RBI's most years...which I believe Vaughn is showing us he can be a RBI man for the Sox. 

6. Go get the next first White Sox baseman from free agency. 

Here are the 2024 UFA's listed at current age and many of these obviously a year old next season.

 Josh Bell 31
Rhys Hoskins 30
Joey Gallo 29
Brandon Belt 35
Giovanny Urshela 31
C.J. Cron 34
Ji-Man Choi 31
Garrett Cooper 32
Jesus Aguilar 32
Jake Lamb 32    
Yulieski Gurriel 38
Darin Ruf 36
Eric Hosmer 33
Matt Adams 34

If the Sox are going to be prudent and spend their free agent dollars in 2024...which Jerry will have a hard time allowing in rebuild 2.0, then maybe that money should be saved for a starting pitcher or two or many of the other weaknesses we have besides first base on this horrible team. 

The bottom line is go right ahead and trade away Vaughn, when you don't have anyone on the present roster, or in the minors to replace him, as well as a lackluster free agency group...be careful what you wish for?

Don't forget Hahn will probably be in charge of trading of Vaughn and he'll probably get fleeced like he always does. 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[chitownsportsfan]

He's not a cornerstone but he's not a guy you rush to trade either given his value league wide, even if you're (once again) rebuilding. If he can work on his launch angle he can turn into a good regular. Right now he's just another guy, talented, but just a guy and wouldn't return much prospect wise.

[flavum]

32 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

If a team wants to give you prospects for him, deal him. But being controlled for 3 years, I lean towards holding onto him and seeing if he has more value next year or after next year.

This. He’s one of the few guys that can stay while they try to turn over the 40-man over the next 20 months or so. 

[FloydBannister1983]

12 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I don’t even know. I really like Vaughn, and he literally just turned 25. But I wonder if he has enough power in his bat to be enough at that position- where you absolutely have to have power. We don’t need 25 home runs and 30 doubles and 40 walks and a .250 average. We need at .270/.870 hitter who is going to hit 35-40 bombs reliably. Can he become that guy? I want him to. 

?

[T R U]

So far, letting Abreu walk was indeed the right call. Pains me to say it, still a lot of season left for that debate but it doesn't look good at all for him.

Vaughn is not a cornerstone player. The value we would get for trading him isn't worth trading him. We will have to ride it out and maybe he has some more development to go in his game but at this point I don't even know if he will hit 20 HR's. And for someone who really cant play any positions on the field that is just not going to be good enough.

[Timmy U]

Getting rid of Vaughn should not be a priority. Of all the 1st basemen in the league, he’s one of them. Probably a bad pick at 1-3 given the fact that Pasquentino was taken in th 11th round of the same draft, but he’s productive on a team with very few productive offensive players.

IMHO, this is going to take a massive organizational overhaul, so what happens with Vaughn one way or another is just not gonna matter much.

[Dick Allen]

It depends. Will the Sox be good before he can leave? I tend to doubt it. I'd trade him if the price was right.

[BigHurt3515]

How many 1B's are hitting 35-40 home runs?

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

It depends. Will the Sox be good before he can leave? I tend to doubt it. I'd trade him if the price was right.

Which means they might as well just go ahead and trade Vaughn/Kopech... which only leaves Cease and Robert of the core.