Garfein: Tim Anderson hates pitch clock, not Chicago

[Balta1701]

57 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

In my opinion TA is never going to get back to the 2019-2021 three year strong run, at least not here as a Sox member. He has changed drastically and not only are his numbers off significantly, but so is his attitude. With all the issues Tim is dealing with, keeping him around hoping his numbers jump back up to increase his trade value, is not worth the risk and further damage you will do to this team.

Sometimes players need another fresh start. We've seen it happen many times in baseball where a guy changes teams and the new club, better culture, vets and manager allow the player to do better. Other teams know Tim has value and will be willing to attempt to change him and have the trade resources to give the Sox.

Regardless of whether Hahn knows trade value or not, which of course he doesn't...isn't the issue! The issue is Hahn isn't going anywhere! Thus if Hahn isn't leaving, then it doesn't mean you keep an underperforming player with a bad attitude and lack of desire. 

You make it sound like the Sox have all this time to see if TA can get back to those huge numbers. Next year is the club option and then UFA in 2025. If you take a risk and assume he will improve and avoid trading him before the 2023 trade deadline, and he has a bad 2024 season again, then the Sox really will be screwed for trading Tim away and getting value in 2024.

 

 

I don't know if we're just turning this into a thread about Anderson's motivation or whatever, but golly gee whiz this is pretty darn blatant as to why his power numbers aren't where they were a couple years ago. At this rate, 3 years from now every time he swings the ball will be bouncing straight up off the plate. Is someone teaching this? This is so blatant it has to be on purpose right?

 

[GREEDY]

47 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Guess we will find out how willing Hahn is to declare the rebuild dead. 

 

This is the silver lining of JR's lifetime contracts... no other GM would be willing to waive the white flag this summer, because they would be fired, but maybe Hahn can because he doesn't fear losing his job?  

[JoeCredeYes]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

At this rate... the White Sox will never again retain a star player into their 30s. 

Konerko will go down as the last of his breed. 

Robert will just as likely price himself out of JR's comfortable, team-friendly extension range with all of his fellow Cubans no longer around. 

 

And the more Rodons, Andersons and Giolitos the franchise vontinues to shed...the closer they get to KC East as an organizational description and FA destination. 

It's going to be too late to rebuild around Cease/Kopech and Vaughn already has his own dedicated threads.  Michael Kopech has transformed from future ace to afterthought/maybe high leverage relief with no replacements in the minors waiting behind him. 

TA is not a star, that's my whole point. 

[Lip Man 1]

34 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

At this rate... the White Sox will never again retain a star player into their 30s. 

Konerko will go down as the last of his breed. 

Robert will just as likely price himself out of JR's comfortable, team-friendly extension range with all of his fellow Cubans no longer around. 

 

And the more Rodons, Andersons and Giolitos the franchise vontinues to shed...the closer they get to KC East as an organizational description and FA destination. 

It's going to be too late to rebuild around Cease/Kopech and Vaughn already has his own dedicated threads.  Michael Kopech has transformed from future ace to afterthought/maybe high leverage relief with no replacements in the minors waiting behind him. 

You are probably correct as long as it is a combination of underperformance from said player and current ownership remaining. 

[GreatScott82]

5 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

What are your expectations for games played by a starter?

Most reasonable people would consider 140 games per season (86% games played) an expected no injury pace.

Shortstop is more taxing than any other position besides catcher. Tim played in 74.1% throughout his career.

74.1% is alot less than 86%. That's about 20 games less than the average SS according your expectation percentages. Like most of this core, injuries have been a huge problem with this team, not just with Tim Anderson. 

Regardless, this team is a hot mess right now and injuries are a fraction of the overall problem with this franchise. 

[almagest]

41 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know if we're just turning this into a thread about Anderson's motivation or whatever, but golly gee whiz this is pretty darn blatant as to why his power numbers aren't where they were a couple years ago. At this rate, 3 years from now every time he swings the ball will be bouncing straight up off the plate. Is someone teaching this? This is so blatant it has to be on purpose right?

 

It's either stupid organizational philosophy, or injuries have killed all his power and they're trying to make the most out of his current ability. Either option is terrible.

[The Grinder]

All this discussion and speculation is pointless as long as JR is alive we will NEVER smell a World Series. Im not saying I'll dance on his grave when he finally passes but I wont shed too many tears either. Hes lead a good life and I wish him good health 

[Harry Chappas]

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Cancers / Not Leaders

    

Great Guys / Leaders

    

Got it.

I'm not certain any person has ever said any of the guys you have on your list other than Keuchel were are a cancer. 

How you included Thomas and Dick Allen renders whatever you were trying to proof as nonsense. 

Only two people that wanted Thomas out of town were KW and Guillen. 

Benentendi is punchline and has been since he signed his contract.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Harry Chappas

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Harry Chappas said:

I'm not certain any person has ever said any of the guys you are other than Keuchel were are a cancer. 

How you included Thomas and Dick Allen renders whatever you were trying to proof as nonsense. 

Only two people that wanted Thomas out of town were KW and Guillen. 

Benentendi is punchline and has been since he signed his contract.

 

 

Stuff about Frank not being a leader or being all about his own stats...that was all over the media in the 1990s. Absolutely. 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

18 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Stuff about Frank not being a leader or being all about his own stats...that was all over the media in the 1990s. Absolutely. 

Yes, but comparing Tim Anderson to Frank Thomas is ridiculous.  TA isn't nearly in the same class as Frank Thomas or Dick Allen - or Jackie Robinson for that matter.

[Big Hurtin]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know if we're just turning this into a thread about Anderson's motivation or whatever, but golly gee whiz this is pretty darn blatant as to why his power numbers aren't where they were a couple years ago. At this rate, 3 years from now every time he swings the ball will be bouncing straight up off the plate. Is someone teaching this? This is so blatant it has to be on purpose right?

 

[South Side Hit Men]

57 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Stuff about Frank not being a leader or being all about his own stats...that was all over the media in the 1990s. Absolutely. 

 

1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said:

I'm not certain any person has ever said any of the guys you have on your list other than Keuchel were are a cancer. 

How you included Thomas and Dick Allen renders whatever you were trying to proof as nonsense. 

Only two people that wanted Thomas out of town were KW and Guillen. 

Benentendi is punchline and has been since he signed his contract.

The entire media crucified Dick Allen as a cancer, Jerry Reinsdorf repeatedly called Dick Allen an unworthy HOF candidate.

There were dozens of post 2022 stories by the media trashing Abreu's lack of leadership, he only cared about himself and his stats, only spoke with Spanish speaking players. Nobody called him a cancer, but everyone trashed him as a "leader" when he simply tried to lead by example by busting his ass and playing every day. People also criticized Harold Baines for being a quiet reserved player, he just went out and did his job.

There is at least loud vocal minority who have called Yoan and Tim cancers for years. Many here praised Keuchel in 2020 when he trashed Renteria and the team. He was a leaker of clubhouse discussions to the media and a self proclaimed leader who needed to speak up and lead a team of losers to winning ways. We all know how that worked out.

Edited May 15, 2023 by South Side Hit Men

[LittleHurtCG]

3 hours ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

It's easy to prove your point when you omit information. 

It most certainly is. Who in their right minds thinks Dalls Kuechel or Dylan Cease is/were a leader of this team? 

Original poster was trying to work backwards to prove his point, facts be damned. 

[TaylorStSox]

On 5/14/2023 at 5:10 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

Guy is a cancer and needs to go. He can take his act with him as he leaves.

You've been a cancer to White Sox message boards for 25 years. At one time this board existed to get away from posters like you. 

[Lip Man 1]

29 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

The entire media crucified Dick Allen as a cancer, Jerry Reinsdorf repeatedly called Dick Allen an unworthy HOF candidate.

There were dozens of post 2022 stories by the media trashing Abreu's lack of leadership, he only cared about himself and his stats, only spoke with Spanish speaking players. Nobody called him a cancer, but everyone trashed him as a "leader" when he simply tried to lead by example by busting his ass and playing every day. People also criticized Harold Baines for being a quiet reserved player, he just went out and did his job.

There is at least loud vocal minority who have called Yoan and Tim cancers for years. Many here praised Keuchel in 2020 when he trashed Renteria and the team. He was a leaker of clubhouse discussions to the media and a self proclaimed leader who needed to speak up and lead a team of losers to winning ways. We all know how that worked out.

In 2012 Richard Roeper and I co-hosted the 40th anniversary celebration for Dick and the 1972 White Sox. I can tell you having spoken with Dick's teammates ("Goose" Gossage, Bart Johnson, Hank Allen, Bill Melton, Carlos May, Ed Spiezio, Tom Bradley) for three days and interviewed a number of others NOT ONE MAN said anything negative about Dick.

All praised his ability, his drive, his will to win. 

Like Chuck Tanner told me before he died (paraphrasing) 'You tell anybody who says that Dick wasn't a leader is full of s%*#.'

Here is my obit story when Dick passed quoting his teammates:

https://www.southsidesox.com/2020/12/9/22164784/white-sox-dick-allen-remembered

Edited May 15, 2023 by Lip Man 1

[South Side Hit Men]

46 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

In 2012 Richard Roeper and I co-hosted the 40th anniversary celebration for Dick and the 1972 White Sox. I can tell you having spoken with Dick's teammates ("Goose" Gossage, Bart Johnson, Hank Allen, Bill Melton, Carlos May, Ed Spiezio, Tom Bradley) for three days and interviewed a number of others NOT ONE MAN said anything negative about Dick.

All praised his ability, his drive, his will to win. 

Like Chuck Tanner told me before he died (paraphrasing) 'You tell anybody who says that Dick wasn't a leader is full of s%*#.'

Here is my obit story when Dick passed quoting his teammates:

https://www.southsidesox.com/2020/12/9/22164784/white-sox-dick-allen-remembered

That's nice and a well deserved tribute.

However, I'm addressing the largely racist contemporary media during his career who found him "uppity", and the Baseball Writers who kept him out of the Hall of Fame, many of whom were the same people.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/50-year-old-bad-press-keeping-dick-allen-hall-fame/

https://deadspin.com/the-gross-racism-that-cheated-the-legacy-of-dick-allen-1844717189

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/dick-allen-another-chance-hall-of-fame/

Then you have Jerry Reinsdorf's Crony Veterans Committee statements and actions, sabotaging Dick Allen and putting in arguably the least qualified player in baseball history into the HOF.

1. Dick Allen 1,749 Games 58.7 bWAR, JAWS 17th (3B)
2. Harold Baines 2,830 Games 38.8 bWAR, JAWS 76th (RF)

 

Quote

Dick Allen had kind of a checkered career. If I had been on the committee I wouldn’t have voted for him. He only really had six really good years. ... But when he was with the White Sox he certainly had Hall of Fame years.”

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/white-sox/ct-chicago-white-sox-dick-allen-hall-of-fame-20201122-bzvayrqspvelthiyqgbwzckq4e-story.html

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/12/10/harold-baines-hall-fame

Quote

Baines gained election largely on the basis of 2,866 hits, and no doubt was helped by influential committee members Tony LaRussa, his manager in Chicago and Oakland, and Jerry Reinsdorf, the White Sox owner who erected a statue of Baines in Chicago.

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by South Side Hit Men

[South Side Fireworks Man]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

Jerry Reinsdorf repeatedly called Dick Allen an unworthy HOF candidate.

That just further shows what an ass Reinsdorf is.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

In 2012 Richard Roeper and I co-hosted the 40th anniversary celebration for Dick and the 1972 White Sox. I can tell you having spoken with Dick's teammates ("Goose" Gossage, Bart Johnson, Hank Allen, Bill Melton, Carlos May, Ed Spiezio, Tom Bradley) for three days and interviewed a number of others NOT ONE MAN said anything negative about Dick.

All praised his ability, his drive, his will to win. 

Like Chuck Tanner told me before he died (paraphrasing) 'You tell anybody who says that Dick wasn't a leader is full of s%*#.'

Here is my obit story when Dick passed quoting his teammates:

https://www.southsidesox.com/2020/12/9/22164784/white-sox-dick-allen-remembered

Dick Allen was my baseball hero.  He will forever be my favorite baseball player of all time.

[The Kids Can Play]

37 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

That's nice and a well deserved tribute.

However, I'm addressing the largely racist contemporary media during his career who found him "uppity", and the Baseball Writers who kept him out of the Hall of Fame, many of whom were the same people.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/50-year-old-bad-press-keeping-dick-allen-hall-fame/

https://deadspin.com/the-gross-racism-that-cheated-the-legacy-of-dick-allen-1844717189

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/dick-allen-another-chance-hall-of-fame/

Then you have Jerry Reinsdorf's Crony Veterans Committee statements and actions, sabotaging Dick Allen and putting in arguably the least qualified player in baseball history into the HOF.

1. Dick Allen 1,749 Games 58.7 bWAR, JAWS 17th (3B)
2. Harold Baines 2,830 Games 38.8 bWAR, JAWS 76th (RF)

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/white-sox/ct-chicago-white-sox-dick-allen-hall-of-fame-20201122-bzvayrqspvelthiyqgbwzckq4e-story.html

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/12/10/harold-baines-hall-fame

 

I do think Dick Allen deserves to be in the HOF.  What a jerk Reinsdorf was with the negative comments about Dick Allen.

!5 years career - .292/.378/.534/.912, with 351 HR's, 320 doubles, 3379 Total Bases, one MVP and one ROY.

Just more reasons to hate the POS Jerry Reinsdorf. 

[RTC]

12 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

“Paul is dead.”

McCartney and not The Mayor of Scottsdale, Konerko…

https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/paul-konerkos-house/view/google/

Jeopardy translation: “what you hear when you play Tim Anderson backwards”

[RTC]

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't know if we're just turning this into a thread about Anderson's motivation or whatever, but golly gee whiz this is pretty darn blatant as to why his power numbers aren't where they were a couple years ago. At this rate, 3 years from now every time he swings the ball will be bouncing straight up off the plate. Is someone teaching this? This is so blatant it has to be on purpose right?

 

I think people should be using more “Golly gee whiz” in common parlance.  Highly underrated.  Right up there with “punkin’ head”. 

[South Side Hit Men]

28 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I do think Dick Allen deserves to be in the HOF.  What a jerk Reinsdorf was with the negative comments about Dick Allen.

!5 years career - .292/.378/.534/.912, with 351 HR's, 320 doubles, 3379 Total Bases, one MVP and one ROY.

Just more reasons to hate the POS Jerry Reinsdorf. 

Top 6 fWAR hitters (1964-1977)

1. 78.4 Joe Morgan
2. 75.6 Carl Yastrzemski
3. 70.0 Pete Rose
4. 67.4 Hank Aaron
5. 61.2 Ron Santo
6. 61.2 Dick Allen

Top 60 fWAR hitters (1980-2000)

• 1-6: B. Bonds 110.1, R. Henderson 106.0, C. Ripken 93.0, W. Boggs 88.3, K. Griffey Jr. 73.9, T. Raines 66.0.
• 7-12: M. McGwire 65.8, B. Larkin 64.6, T. Gwynn 64.5, O. Smith 64.2, J. Bagwell 62.8, A. Trammell 61.3.
• 13-18: L. Whittaker 61.2, R. Sandberg 60.9, P. Molitor 60.4, E. Murray 59.7, F. Thomas 59.7, R. Palmeiro 58.6.
• 19-24: M. Schmidt 56.5, E. Martinez 56.4, R. Alomar 56.0, R. Yount 55.2, C. Biggio 55.0, W. Clark 52.0.
• 25-30: G. Brett 51.6, F. McGriff 51.2, M. Piazza 49.8, A. Dawson 48.8, R. Ventura 48.5, G. Carter 48.3.
• 31-36: L. Walker 47.5, T. Phillips 46.6, K. Lofton 46.2, J. Olerud 45.0, K. Puckett 44.9, D. Murphy 44.7.
• 37-42: D. Evans 44.4, M. Grace 44.2, T. Fernandez 43.6, W. Randolph 43.0, M. Williams 43.0, K. Hernandez 42.5.
• 43-48: B. Butler 42.2, A. Van Slyke 41.9, D. Strawberry 41.5, I. Rodriguez 41.2, S. Sosa 41.1, D. White 41.1.
• 49-54: A. Belle 41.0, J. Canseco 41.0, D. Mattingly 40.7, P. O'Neill 40.4, L. Dykstra 40.3, J. Clark 40.0
• 55-60: C. Knoblauch 39.9, H. Baines 39.7, D. Justice 39.2, R. Lankford 39.2, G. Gaetti 39.0, J. Barfield 39.0.

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, LittleHurtCG said:

It most certainly is. Who in their right minds thinks Dalls Kuechel or Dylan Cease is/were a leader of this team? 

Quote

“We view this as the next logical step in our process, one that was a high priority for us entering this offseason," general manager Rick Hahn said, “and that being adding someone who not only helps stabilize the rotation, but someone who is going to be a key contributor inside the clubhouse as well."

“The character is something and the reputation is something that you build over the length of a career," Hahn said on a conference call, “and Dallas has been someone that we've admired from that standpoint from afar for a while now."

Really you couldn’t guess?

 

Quote

Well, contrary to popular belief,’’ White Sox vice president Ken Williams said, “numbers don’t tell the whole story. There is a human element to this game. There is a very real leadership and motivational component. And presence will always remain something that is very hard to quantify. You know it when you see it.

“And this guy has got it.’’

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2020/03/03/white-sox-dallas-keuchel-leadership-25000-team-dinner/4937202002/

[greg775]

Let's all be reasonable here. We can dislike Timmy at times but he didn't say he hates it here. He hates the pitch clock (which fans love).

He still is one of our few multi-hit guys. Has a lotta multi hit games. He's not the best defender but improves there every year and has a good bat.

But on this issue? Cmon. He's not evil.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

Dick Allen was my baseball hero.  He will forever be my favorite baseball player of all time.

That three day event is one of the highlights of my professional life. Dick was gracious, genuinely touched by the reception and the crowd who came out for the dinner...he even asked for the mic to sing along with Nancy Faust when she played "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" for the seventh inning stretch as part of the program.

When everything was done we were all back at the Drake Hotel having a last get together/drink at the bar. I was in the corner talking pitching with Gossage and Bradley (I pitched myself growing up) when someone came up behind me and gave me a bear hug. Almost crushed my ribs...it was Dick with a big smile on his face thanking me for my help in the event.

Just a very special moment.