Garfein: Tim Anderson hates pitch clock, not Chicago

[The Kids Can Play]

20 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

No speculating allowed, except for you... right?

You literally listed players that you know aren't the cancer? Lol.  

 

Ok you win. You're right, those guys I mentioned are all a HUGE part of the cancer.

Trade them all! lol!

[The Kids Can Play]

50 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

There are 99 reasons why to "hate this place" but getting boo'd by like a dozen fans after not hustling ain't one.  

You are absolutely right its not a valid reason to hate this place. However TA is not your normal player with the proverbial "head screwed on right!" He told Chuck Garfien very sternly before the season that he didn't appreciate the Sox fans booing him or the team. He clearly told the fans and media...that we all need to be pulling on the same rope in the same direction. 

[Lip Man 1]

3 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Ok you win. You're right, those guys I mentioned are all a HUGE part of the cancer.

Trade them all! lol!

Given the injury history for many of them, the poor performances, the seemingly lack of "baseball-smarts" by and large...that may not be a bad idea. 

Granted that won't solve the issues of ownership and the front office but keeping the status quo on the field makes little sense. There is enough of a track record to show this group simply can't be successful. 

[Paulie4Pres]

16 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Given the injury history for many of them, the poor performances, the seemingly lack of "baseball-smarts" by and large...that may not be a bad idea. 

Granted that won't solve the issues of ownership and the front office but keeping the status quo on the field makes little sense. There is enough of a track record to show this group simply can't be successful. 

Trading them also makes no sense. This management is incompetent. Trading guys won't make a damn bit of difference.

[Harry Chappas]

The guy is losing tens of millions of dollars each month he is not the TA of pre-Field of Dreams Days.

His long term deal killed him and while it could have been used as a trade chip that's decreasing as well.

He seems to always have some issue or another that is the rationale for stagnating as a player.  Death of a friend, IG models, ejections, suspensions, lack of focus, injuries.

As I have stated previously, 4 years ago the guy could have been the biggest star in this city now I am not sure what he is.

This is probably the saddest aspect of this team for me as I really liked the guy and hoped for the best.  Now he is anchored at lead off which is probably the worst sport for him in the lineup.  He cannot adjust his approach at the plate at all.

 

 

[Lip Man 1]

23 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Trading them also makes no sense. This management is incompetent. Trading guys won't make a damn bit of difference.

Keeping this group together and expecting a different result also makes no sense. 

I'm not saying anything would really change either...what I am saying is since you are going to lose these guys anyway for various reasons, you get what you can for them and ":hope" for a different result with a different group.

Yes...that is all that's left for this organization (at least until new ownership arrives) 'hope' things get better and hope really isn't a strategy. 

[South Side Hit Men]

Cancers / Not Leaders

    

Great Guys / Leaders

    

Got it.

[Paulie4Pres]

1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Keeping this group together and expecting a different result also makes no sense. 

I'm not saying anything would really change either...what I am saying is since you are going to lose these guys anyway for various reasons, you get what you can for them and ":hope" for a different result with a different group.

Yes...that is all that's left for this organization (at least until new ownership arrives) 'hope' things get better and hope really isn't a strategy. 

It's hopeless. I, and many other Sox fans, just don't give a s%*# anymore. Keep them, trade them, blow it all up, it doesn't matter. f*** this organization. 

[Paulie4Pres]

1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Cancers / Not Leaders

    

Great Guys / Leaders

    

Got it.

It's actually pretty clear what the biggest driver is in these claims.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Paulie4Pres

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

1. Yes the Sox are better with Tim in the lineup, but my point is when he is in the lineup, its only a few games over 500. That type of W-L record will not get you to the World Series. 

2. A 43-59 record without TA is such misleading and not a stat that is quantitative! Tim is not the only player on the roster contributing to that bad record. You seem to forget there are several key starters on this team the last two years always injured and not in the lineup. When these key starters are in the lineup they haven't been producing. That is the real reason the team is 43-59 and not because of TA missing. 

3. Tim's production has fallen off significantly the last two years. As a result, if his production and lack of playing due to injuries is so bad, then why do we need this guy on our team...based on his horrible attitude, leadership and hustle.

4. In 2005, I was one of the people pissed that Frank Thomas was forced out. He was then and still is today my favorite Sox player of all time. I even posted some stats on Frank in another post earlier this season that showed he was not washed up after he left and had some strong power production after he left. 

5. You seem to be missing another point, Tim will be a UFA in 2025. There is no way in hell Tim will sign with the Sox. In fact, with the club option this will Tim's last year with the Sox. So why wouldn't we trade him now?

I seriously have no clue why you are defending TA?

No team in baseball considers $14 million per season expensive for a starting SS with his credentials...I've heard over and over again how $15 million x 5 wasn't even an overpay for Benintendi. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by caulfield12

[The Kids Can Play]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

No team in baseball considers $14 million per season expensive for a starting SS with his credentials...I've heard over and over again how $15 million x 5 wasn't even an overpay for Benintendi. 

You're right 14 million is nothing. Which is why it's time to move TA now and get good value back.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

9 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Cancers / Not Leaders

    

Great Guys / Leaders

    

Got it.

Where’s Minoso and Baines? And why you put Abreu and Allen on the wrong side, Allen looking irate in the wrong uniform even

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You're right 14 million is nothing. Which is why it's time to move TA now and get good value back.

What does Hahn know about good value? 

At the very least... you need to let Anderson get back up to a 725-750ish OPS first. 

His numbers look closer to 2006 Brian Anderson minus the occasional homer right streak now. 

Then you trade him...it better lead to something better than Andrus replacing him.  You need to prove that Colson Montgomery is progressing again towards that starting SS spot... because the cost to replace him becomes even more expensive if you just turn right around and have to sign another Tier B MI in free agency. 

And Montgomery (instead) moving to third base means Burger/Moncada are worth even less to the organization... especially Burger at 1B/DH.

Edited May 15, 2023 by caulfield12

[TheBooneLoganEra]

21 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Where’s Minoso and Baines? And why you put Abreu and Allen on the wrong side, Allen looking irate in the wrong uniform even

It's easy to prove your point when you omit information. 

[The Kids Can Play]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

What does Hahn know about good value? 

At the very least... you need to let Anderson get back up to a 725-750ish OPS first. 

His numbers look closer to 2006 Brian Anderson minus the occasional homer right streak now. 

Then you trade him...it better lead to something better than Andrus replacing him.  You need to prove that Colson Montgomery is progressing again towards that starting SS spot... because the cost to replace him becomes even more expensive if you just turn right around and have to sign another Tier B MI in free agency. 

And instead Montgomery moving to third base means Burger/Moncada are worth even less to the organization... especially Burger at 1B/DH.

In my opinion TA is never going to get back to the 2019-2021 three year strong run, at least not here as a Sox member. He has changed drastically and not only are his numbers off significantly, but so is his attitude. With all the issues Tim is dealing with, keeping him around hoping his numbers jump back up to increase his trade value, is not worth the risk and further damage you will do to this team.

Sometimes players need another fresh start. We've seen it happen many times in baseball where a guy changes teams and the new club, better culture, vets and manager allow the player to do better. Other teams know Tim has value and will be willing to attempt to change him and have the trade resources to give the Sox.

Regardless of whether Hahn knows trade value or not, which of course he doesn't...isn't the issue! The issue is Hahn isn't going anywhere! Thus if Hahn isn't leaving, then it doesn't mean you keep an underperforming player with a bad attitude and lack of desire. 

You make it sound like the Sox have all this time to see if TA can get back to those huge numbers. Next year is the club option and then UFA in 2025. If you take a risk and assume he will improve and avoid trading him before the 2023 trade deadline, and he has a bad 2024 season again, then the Sox really will be screwed for trading Tim away and getting value in 2024.

 

 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

In my opinion TA is never going to get back to the 2019-2021 three year strong run, at least not here as a Sox member. He has changed drastically and not only are his numbers off significantly, but so is his attitude. With all the issues Tim is dealing with, keeping him around hoping his numbers jump back up to increase his trade value, is not worth the risk and further damage you will do to this team.

Sometimes players need another fresh start. We've seen it happen many times in baseball where a guy changes teams and the new club, better culture, vets and manager allow the player to do better. Other teams know Tim has value and will be willing to attempt to change him and have the trade resources to give the Sox.

Regardless of whether Hahn knows trade value or not, which of course he doesn't...isn't the issue! The issue is Hahn isn't going anywhere! Thus if Hahn isn't leaving, then it doesn't mean you keep an underperforming player with a bad attitude and lack of desire. 

You make it sound like the Sox have all this time to see if TA can get back to those huge numbers. Next year is the club option and then UFA in 2025. If you take a risk and assume he will improve and avoid trading him before the 2023 trade deadline, and he has a bad 2024 season again, then the Sox really will be screwed for trading Tim away and getting value in 2024.

 

 

Guess we will find out how willing Hahn is to declare the rebuild dead. 

If Montgomery had continued on his 2021-2022 progression, it would be a much more viable PR strategy if he was going to be recalled as TA's replacement. 

Ultimately, he's the most identifiable Sox position player and it will be a changing of the old guard to Robert...

But Hahn also is cognizant that trading yet another All-Star SS seven years later, three under 30 All Stars if you count Semien with Tatis Jr., makes him look even worse  ultimately when Anderson transforms back into WBC form elsewhere. 

[Quin]

32 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

It's easy to prove your point when you omit information. 

Minnie had a paternity lawsuit (it ended up being bunk) and showed up late to spring training in a brand new cadillac (cause he loved cars).

Somehow, I don't feel like he would have been well received by some here without nostalgia glasses.

[The Kids Can Play]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Guess we will find out how willing Hahn is to declare the rebuild dead. 

If Montgomery had continued on his 2021-2022 progression, it would be a much more viable PR strategy if he was going to be recalled as TA's replacement. 

Ultimately, he's the most identifiable Sox position player and it will be a changing of the old guard to Robert...

But Hahn also is cognizant that trading yet another All-Star SS seven years later, three under 30 All Stars if you count Semien with Tatis Jr., makes him look even worse  ultimately when Anderson transforms back into WBC form elsewhere. 

This is where we will agree to disagree!

Those of us in here who want TA traded is not because of his struggling production and hoping he regains it. We want TA gone regardless of his potential because he changed and became a cancer to this team. He lacks leadership, hustle, desire and hates the team. 

As I've said before some team will want TA and give up good prospects. 

As far as Montgomery goes, I don't believe he has regressed from 2021-2022, other than he is currently injured and hasn't played yet this year...at least not at the A+, AA or AAA levels. 

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Keeping this group together and expecting a different result also makes no sense. 

I'm not saying anything would really change either...what I am saying is since you are going to lose these guys anyway for various reasons, you get what you can for them and ":hope" for a different result with a different group.

Yes...that is all that's left for this organization (at least until new ownership arrives) 'hope' things get better and hope really isn't a strategy. 

You are correct...Keeping this group together and expecting a different result also makes no sense.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”  Albert Einstein

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

This is where we will agree to disagree!

Those of us in here who want TA traded is not because of his struggling production and hoping he regains it. We want TA gone regardless of his potential because he changed and became a cancer to this team. He lacks leadership, hustle, desire and hates the team. 

As I've said before some team will want TA and give up good prospects. 

As far as Montgomery goes, I don't believe he has regressed from 2021-2022, other than he is currently injured and hasn't played yet this year...at least not at the A+, AA or AAA levels. 

Progress/regression...for now and probably into 2024 due to controlling his rights, he can't move forward as the starting SS and future of the rebuild (along with Luis Robert) if he isn't able to take the field. 

[TheBooneLoganEra]

10 minutes ago, Quin said:

Minnie had a paternity lawsuit (it ended up being bunk) and showed up late to spring training in a brand new cadillac (cause he loved cars).

Somehow, I don't feel like he would have been well received by some here without nostalgia glasses.

Minnie had a few skeletons in his closet. Point is though to throw some kind of racial argument into the mix is hot garbage. For a fanbase that worships guy like Allen, Baines and Thomas and Abreu. It's lazy self delusion. 

[The Kids Can Play]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Progress/regression...for now and probably into 2024 due to controlling his rights, he can't move forward as the starting SS and future of the rebuild (along with Luis Robert) if he isn't able to take the field. 

True, but it is not some major career threating injury. He should be back soon and hopefully continuing his ascent forwards to eventually playing SS for the Sox.. 

[JoeCredeYes]

32 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Guess we will find out how willing Hahn is to declare the rebuild dead. 

If Montgomery had continued on his 2021-2022 progression, it would be a much more viable PR strategy if he was going to be recalled as TA's replacement. 

Ultimately, he's the most identifiable Sox position player and it will be a changing of the old guard to Robert...

But Hahn also is cognizant that trading yet another All-Star SS seven years later, three under 30 All Stars if you count Semien with Tatis Jr., makes him look even worse  ultimately when Anderson transforms back into WBC form elsewhere. 

His "WBC form" where he got exactly 2 hits off of major league pitchers, both of which are lefty?  (Sandoval and Alvarado)

Guy didn't exactly light the world on fire in the WBC, he was 6/18 with 2 BBs and 7Ks.  Did most of his damage against scrubs from Canada.

My sense is people here highly overvalue TA.  Based solely on his play, he's a maybe a top (10-15) SS in the league when healthy.  He has a plus contact tool, diminishing speed, zero power and is average to below average in every other aspect of his game.  He's now on the wrong side of 30, thinks he's owed a 9 figure deal, and refuses to move to 2B where his offense would actually play.  The window is closed here and by the time it's open again he'll be well past his prime, it's time to deal the diva while he still has some value. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by JoeCredeYes
typo

[oldsox]

20 minutes ago, Quin said:

Minnie had a paternity lawsuit (it ended up being bunk) and showed up late to spring training in a brand new cadillac (cause he loved cars).

Somehow, I don't feel like he would have been well received by some here without nostalgia glasses.

Disagree.  I was here when Minoso arrived.  Still a hero.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

His "WBC form" where he got exactly 2 hits off of major league pitchers, both of which are lefty?  (Sandoval and Alvarado)

Guy didn't exactly light the world on fire in the WBC, he was 6/18 with 2 BBs and 7Ks.  Did most of his damage against scrubs from Canada.

My sense is people here highly overvalue TA.  Based solely on his play, he's a maybe a top (10-15) SS in the league when healthy.  He has a plus contact tool, diminishing speed, zero power and is average to below average in every other aspect of his game.  He's now on the wrong side of 30, thinks he's owed a 9 figure deal, and refuses to move to 2B where his offense would actually play.  The window is closed here and by the time it's open again he'll be well past his prime, it's time to deal the diva while he still has some value. 

At this rate... the White Sox will never again retain a star player into their 30s. 

Konerko will go down as the last of his breed. 

Robert will just as likely price himself out of JR's comfortable, team-friendly extension range with all of his fellow Cubans no longer around. 

 

And the more Rodons, Andersons and Giolitos the franchise vontinues to shed...the closer they get to KC East as an organizational description and FA destination. 

It's going to be too late to rebuild around Cease/Kopech and Vaughn already has his own dedicated threads.  Michael Kopech has transformed from future ace to afterthought/maybe high leverage relief with no replacements in the minors waiting behind him.