Will the Sox do the right thing when Eloy comes back and move Yoan to 2B?

[joejoesox]

When Eloy comes back as the DH, you cannot platoon Sheets and Burger, that would be ridiculous and blowing an opportunity to have Yoan, Vaughn, Eloy, Burger, Robert , TA, Benintendi, Grandal and eventually Colas all in the same lineup

The only way you accomplish this is to move Yoan back to 2B and bring Andrus off the bench or play him when Moncada needs a day off

Will the Sox have the balls to do this? We will see how serious they are when the opportunity presents itself. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by joejoesox

[Ducksnort]

Do the Sox ever do the right thing? Anyways who cares, season is lost anyway. Not trying to be rude but...

Edited May 15, 2023 by ScootsMcGoots

[flavum]

4 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

Do the Sox ever do the right thing? Anyways who cares, season is lost anyway. Not trying to be rude but...

It really is at the point of- “what is best for the trade market over the next 10 weeks”. That’s all that matters. Except Fire Hahn now.

[Lip Man 1]

Grifol has already said this hasn't been discussed and by his quotes it sounds like it won't be a consideration. 

[The Kids Can Play]

27 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Grifol has already said this hasn't been discussed and by his quotes it sounds like it won't be a consideration. 

The fact it hasn't even been lightly discussed is exactly why Grifol is a horrible manager and big mistake hire. 

[South Side Hit Men]

Sheets shouldn't be on the roster if Burger, Vaughn and Eloy are on it. 2B and RF need to be filled by players who can play the position.

Yoan is the best 3B and should remain at 3B. No dramatic in season shifts should occur because of Hahn's annual abysmal roster construction and annual holes in RF and 2B.

Any transitions of long standing players sinch as Yoan or Tim should be well thought out and agreed to in October to allow players a full offseason to prepare even before Spring Training.

[Buehrle>Wood]

20 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

The fact it hasn't even been lightly discussed is exactly why Grifol is a horrible manager and big mistake hire. 

I doubt major position changes are his call.

[The Kids Can Play]

Of course the Sox won't do this. It's not about whether they have the balls or not, they just aren't baseball smart enough to consider it and thinking outside the box.

You would think though, a rookie manager with his future job on the line would consider it. There is no debate that with Burger in the lineup along with Moncada and Eloy you have your strongest lineup. If Grifol has any hope of getting close to .500, which I don't think they do and save his job...it would make sense to take some bold chances and at least give it a shot. It's not Grifol's fault this roster was poorly constructed.

Burger had played well at third defensively this season and deserves a chance to say at third in the same lineup with Moncada. Moncada can play second. I don't care if it's not as good as he does at third, or makes a few errors. The offensive advantage should outweigh the defensive liability with him at second.

The advantage of giving it shot, is this best case scenario: Moncada plays a decent 2B and continues to hit, then at the trade deadline his stock just shot up for his trade value. 

[The Kids Can Play]

3 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I doubt major position changes are his call.

This isn't Moneyball where Brad Pitt is telling Philip Seymour Hoffman who is playing first base. HaHa!

With Rick Hahn being an even more direct reason for this losing team and his job on the line...I would think Hahn wouldn't have any issues with Grifol making a change like that. 

[Paulie4Pres]

This isn't even a thing. When has an established player like Yoan ever been moved to a new position during the season? Even if it was the right move(debatable), you don't do it at this point in the season. 

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

This isn't even a thing. When has an established player like Yoan ever been moved to a new position during the season? Even if it was the right move(debatable), you don't do it at this point in the season. 

Mookie Betts now playing SS pretty regularly this year for LA...his original/first position as a minor league prospect. 

Cardinals moved Contreras off catcher for OF/DH and one week later changed their minds. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by caulfield12

[Tnetennba]

Moving Yoan back to 2B is not now nor will it ever be the right thing.  Holy s%*# how is this still a thing?

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Moving Yoan back to 2B is not now nor will it ever be the right thing.  Holy s%*# how is this still a thing?

When you look at Moncada's contract and realize having more versatility boosts his trade value... 

That and the fact that Burger suddenly has become a much more viable replacement option at third than he was at the end of 2022. 

Betts willingly moving to SS for the good of the team as a former MVP and even CF/RF Gold Glover while Moncada isn't even willing (seemingly) to consider it tells one a lot. 

Not only Betts, but Lux, Taylor and Muncy have been willing to move all over the diamond for the ultimate positional flexibility benefit of that franchise. 

[Kyyle23]

I prefer to have the better fielder in the tougher premium position but that’s just me

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just should've signed Correa and moved Tim to 2nd base.

[Illinibat]

2 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Moving Yoan back to 2B is not now nor will it ever be the right thing.  Holy s%*# how is this still a thing?

Its a thing because Burger at 3B, Moncada at 2B and Andrus on the bench yields a better overall lineup than Moncada at 3B, Andrus at 2B and Burger somewhere random.  

Whatever happens, Burger has to play.  He's one of top two players on the team (with Robert) and sitting him is absurd.  He's one of the only players generating any offense this year (and last).  If you don't want Moncada to play at 2B, then put him on the bench.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Illinibat

[joejoesox]

24 minutes ago, Illinibat said:

Its a thing because Burger at 3B, Moncada at 2B and Andrus on the bench yields a better overall lineup than Moncada at 3B, Andrus at 2B and Burger somewhere random.  

Whatever happens, Burger has to play.  He's one of top two players on the team (with Robert) and sitting him is absurd.  He's one of the only players generating any offense this year (and last).  If you don't want Moncada to play at 2B, then put him on the bench.

only way I can see it working with Yoan at 3b is to keep Eloy in RF and ? at DH, yuck

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Mookie Betts now playing SS pretty regularly this year for LA...his original/first position as a minor league prospect. 

Cardinals moved Contreras off catcher for OF/DH and one week later changed their minds. 

 

This isn't so.

Mookie Betts 2023:

1. Right Field (32 Total Appearances, 26 Starts, 20 Complete Games, 231 Innings).
2. Second Base (9 Total Appearances, 7 Starts, 3 Complete Games, 56 Innings).
3. Shortstop (7 Total Appearances, 5 Starts, 2 Complete Games, 41 Innings).

Contraras hasn't started anywhere but C and DH this decade. No outfield not even for an inning in Saint Louis or even the Cubs in 2022 (played the final inning in LF and 3B in different games in 2021, zero in 2020.

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

When you look at Moncada's contract and realize having more versatility boosts his trade value... 

That and the fact that Burger suddenly has become a much more viable replacement option at third than he was at the end of 2022. 

Betts willingly moving to SS for the good of the team as a former MVP and even CF/RF Gold Glover while Moncada isn't even willing (seemingly) to consider it tells one a lot. 

Not only Betts, but Lux, Taylor and Muncy have been willing to move all over the diamond for the ultimate positional flexibility benefit of that franchise. 

Already addressed Betts above. 

Lux hasn't played this season, was primarily a 2B last year (102 Games at 2B, 28 in LF and 9 late inning defense substitutions at SS last season (0 starts).

Chris Taylor is a utility player in the mold of Leury Garcia (.644 OPS), with the difference that Taylor can hit (.764 OPS, .736 this age 33 season).

Muncy plays 3B this season (zero starts at 1B or 2B), and played 3B primarily in 2022 (84 Games / 713 Innings vs. 31 Games / 223 Innings at 2B).

 

[Quin]

1. Take Yoan Moncada from 3rd, where he's very, very good and move him to second, where he's bad.
2. Play Jake Burger at 3rd, where he's bad and Hanser Alberto is used as a defensive replacement.
3. ???
4. Profit.

I think I'd almost rather teach Burger to play second.

Or we teach Jake Burger to play catcher.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Quin said:

1. Take Yoan Moncada from 3rd, where he's very, very good and move him to second, where he's bad.
2. Play Jake Burger at 3rd, where he's bad and Hanser Alberto is used as a defensive replacement.
3. ???
4. Profit.

I think I'd almost rather teach Burger to play second.

Or we teach Jake Burger to play catcher.

Well he was working at second taking ground balls in practice last year. Don't know who's idea it was.

[elrockinMT]

6 hours ago, joejoesox said:

When Eloy comes back as the DH, you cannot platoon Sheets and Burger, that would be ridiculous and blowing an opportunity to have Yoan, Vaughn, Eloy, Burger, Robert , TA, Benintendi, Grandal and eventually Colas all in the same lineup

The only way you accomplish this is to move Yoan back to 2B and bring Andrus off the bench or play him when Moncada needs a day off

Will the Sox have the balls to do this? We will see how serious they are when the opportunity presents itself. 

I don’t it’s the right thing to do. He is an excellent defender at 3B and it takes awhile to get used to playing another position 

[JoshPR]

HELL NO

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

This isn't so.

Mookie Betts 2023:

1. Right Field (32 Total Appearances, 26 Starts, 20 Complete Games, 231 Innings).
2. Second Base (9 Total Appearances, 7 Starts, 3 Complete Games, 56 Innings).
3. Shortstop (7 Total Appearances, 5 Starts, 2 Complete Games, 41 Innings).

Contraras hasn't started anywhere but C and DH this decade. No outfield not even for an inning in Saint Louis or even the Cubs in 2022 (played the final inning in LF and 3B in different games in 2021, zero in 2020.

Already addressed Betts above. 

Lux hasn't played this season, was primarily a 2B last year (102 Games at 2B, 28 in LF and 9 late inning defense substitutions at SS last season (0 starts).

Chris Taylor is a utility player in the mold of Leury Garcia (.644 OPS), with the difference that Taylor can hit (.764 OPS, .736 this age 33 season).

Muncy plays 3B this season (zero starts at 1B or 2B), and played 3B primarily in 2022 (84 Games / 713 Innings vs. 31 Games / 223 Innings at 2B).

 

Look where they played 2021 and 2020 compared to now.  Lux a natural SS/2B and Muncy 1B DH and pretty sure C at one point. 

Look at the last two weeks for the Dodgers.  Nobody in a million years thought Betts would be getting starts at SS this spring training. 

 

Cardinals obviously changed their plan within a week... but they were planning to DH and corner outfield Contreras for Burleson to create more offense. 

Already sent top prospect in baseball Walker down because he was struggling so much in RF and at third... despite pretty decent offensive numbers. 

[caulfield12]

Let's just put it this way. 

Winning teams... players will volunteer to do what's best for the team. 

Moncada's interest is now focused on where he will be traded and his next FA deal.  It would behoove him to demonstrate some versataility if he's not going to be an 850-900 hitter ever again. 

Conversely, the White Sox will desperately need to continue developing the 3B skills of Burger, since the next 3-5 years will be all about young/cheap players and veteran retreads.  They already have 1B and DH pretty much covered... to the good or bad, we shall see. 

At any rate...opportunity cost. 

No matter what Moncada does, the return for him will always be about any financial savings they can eke out.  Making Burger into another Max Muncy provides more utility for the team and less for JR's wallet. 

(We also have already clearly demonstrated players like Narvaez and Semien can make dramatic defensive improvements away my from the Sox.  Tyler Flowers would be yet another.) 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

The best players on winning teams do not all offer whatever is best for the team in every scenario, that is silly.