Trading One Year Assets is Inevitable. Maybe even 2-yr

[tray]

Trades should not be made and will not be made because fans like or dislike a player for personal reasons.  There is too much of that in these posts.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, tray said:

Trades should not be made and will not be made because fans like or dislike a player for personal reasons.  There is too much of that in these posts.

?

[SouthSideGeorgia]

Yes.  Let’s stand pat on this deadline and the offseason. I love erosion of talent over time. We’ll need three new starting pitchers next year.

We got this!!!

Edited July 4, 2023 by SouthSideGeorgia

[scotty22hotty]

I'm not getting my hopes up for any good returns after seeing what the Royals got for the best RP available a month before the deadline. (Chapman 1.4 fWAR for the Rangers ranked 20 & 35 prospects)

Have to imagine if hahn was offered a top 50 for gio, he'd be gone already.

[greg775]

I would suspect the Sox try to get rid of everybody possible who makes a decent buck, excluding three hitters: Burger, Eloy and Robert. And maybe Vaughn. Everybody else will be shopped or shipped. Including all pitchers. Pitchers have lost their value in my mind cause they are all 3 to 5 inning wonders. If a guy can't go 6-7 innings in my mind he's not worth any commitment to $.

The reason? No fans are clamoring to keep any players except maybe Robert. So it's a prime way for the Sox to save money on salaries. Get rid of all making a decent dollar. When a team is going nowhere and is unlikeable it's easy for a GM to clean house.

If the Sox are ever going to play and win modern baseball they need to keep the three decent HR total guys though. Only holdup? You are trusting Hahn to make all the trades when he's probably going to be fired after the season. That's a dilemma.

Edited July 4, 2023 by greg775

[greg775]

On 5/24/2023 at 3:58 PM, GreenSox said:

It's a big ask, but I'd like to see more nuance from the FO beyond "going for it" or "tearing it all down."

That's what I wanted pre Sale trade. I thought with a good front office and scouts there was no need for the ridiculous tank/rebuild. I stand by my position and in this case indeed am willing to say the dreaded I told you so.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I would suspect the Sox try to get rid of everybody possible who makes a decent buck, excluding three hitters: Burger, Eloy and Robert. And maybe Vaughn. Everybody else will be shopped or shipped. Including all pitchers. Pitchers have lost their value in my mind cause they are all 3 to 5 inning wonders. If a guy can't go 6-7 innings in my mind he's not worth any commitment to $.

The reason? No fans are clamoring to keep any players except maybe Robert. So it's a prime way for the Sox to save money on salaries. Get rid of all making a decent dollar. When a team is going nowhere and is unlikeable it's easy for a GM to clean house.

If the Sox are ever going to play and win modern baseball they need to keep the three decent HR total guys though. Only holdup? You are trusting Hahn to make all the trades when he's probably going to be fired after the season. That's a dilemma.

Robert started the day with the 3rd highest fWAR in the game. 

I would hope they/fans would rather watch a star than see Hahn fail to execute yet another "slam dunk" trade that should be stocked in favor of the Sox.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

I would suspect the Sox try to get rid of everybody possible who makes a decent buck, excluding three hitters: Burger, Eloy and Robert. And maybe Vaughn. Everybody else will be shopped or shipped. Including all pitchers. Pitchers have lost their value in my mind cause they are all 3 to 5 inning wonders. If a guy can't go 6-7 innings in my mind he's not worth any commitment to $.

The reason? No fans are clamoring to keep any players except maybe Robert. So it's a prime way for the Sox to save money on salaries. Get rid of all making a decent dollar. When a team is going nowhere and is unlikeable it's easy for a GM to clean house.

If the Sox are ever going to play and win modern baseball they need to keep the three decent HR total guys though. Only holdup? You are trusting Hahn to make all the trades when he's probably going to be fired after the season. That's a dilemma.

I would be shocked if JR fired him...kicked him upstairs? Maybe...but fired...no. 

[SouthSideGeorgia]

I can’t wait to watch a starting five next year of Cease, Kopech, Nate Fisher, Jesse Scholtens and Chase Solesky. It’s going to be awesome. 
 

(ok, a little tongue in cheek, please)

[Lip Man 1]

3 hours ago, SouthSideGeorgia said:

I can’t wait to watch a starting five next year of Cease, Kopech, Nate Fisher, Jesse Scholtens and Chase Solesky. It’s going to be awesome. 
 

(ok, a little tongue in cheek, please)

No they'll sign a few has been's, injury prone guys on cheap one year deals and hope to catch lightening in a bottle. 

[Bob Sacamano]

11 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

No they'll sign a few has been's, injury prone guys on cheap one year deals and hope to catch lightening in a bottle. 

But even if you rebuild/tear it down, you have to make those kind of deals anyway. Need bodies at the MLB level to play/possibly flip the next summer.

[zisk]

Gio pitched well last night. I'm gonna miss that guy. Even though he'll only be a 2-3 month rental, he should bring a solid 

return. 

[SouthSideGeorgia]

I am assuming IF we trade Giolito, then we have to return a controllable starting pitcher for him in return that can start this year. Already down Clevinger and Kopech, unless we decide to tank at this point, the Sox will need someone that can start now. 
 
That, or we have to swing starters on other trades also. 

Some teams that may require a Giolito rental and looking at the bottom of their Top 30 for a possible starting arm reaps the following:

 

Reds Lyon Richardson, 23, AA

Braves Luis De Avila, 22, AA

Braves Tanner Gordon, AAA

Braves Alan Ranger, 25, AA

LAD, Kyle Hurt, 25, AA

LAD, Landon Knack, 25, AA

MIA Patrick Monteverde, 25, AA

BAL Justin Armbruester, 24, AAA

BAL Noah Denoyer, 25, AAA

BAL Ryan Watson, 25, AAA

[whitesoxfan99]

15 minutes ago, SouthSideGeorgia said:

I am assuming IF we trade Giolito, then we have to return a controllable starting pitcher for him in return that can start this year. Already down Clevinger and Kopech, unless we decide to tank at this point, the Sox will need someone that can start now. 
 
That, or we have to swing starters on other trades also. 

Some teams that may require a Giolito rental and looking at the bottom of their Top 30 for a possible starting arm reaps the following:

 

Reds Lyon Richardson, 23, AA

Braves Luis De Avila, 22, AA

Braves Tanner Gordon, AAA

Braves Alan Ranger, 25, AA

LAD, Kyle Hurt, 25, AA

LAD, Landon Knack, 25, AA

MIA Patrick Monteverde, 25, AA

BAL Justin Armbruester, 24, AAA

BAL Noah Denoyer, 25, AAA

BAL Ryan Watson, 25, AAA

Not maximizing the talent return to get a major league ready arm would be really really dumb.  This team sucks and unless they increase payroll which isn’t going to happen has no realistic pathway to competing next year either.  
 

Get ready for a rotation of Cease, Kopech and 3 scrap heap or crappy starters like Scholtens next year plus year 4 of praying guys like Moncada and Jimenez are miraculously healthy and good.  

[Timmy U]

I may be Charlie Brown kicking the football here, but Matt Thompson’s last 3 starts have me mildly excited.  He may be a rotation piece next year? 

[zisk]

Unless the light comes back on soon, The Sox would be better off passing on Andersons option.

Use the money else where. Plus. some times when you trade a "debby downer" type, the team 

improves a bit thru a more positive atmosphere.

 

[Harry Chappas]

2 minutes ago, zisk said:

Unless the light comes back on soon, The Sox would be better off passing on Andersons option.

Use the money else where. Plus. some times when you trade a "debby downer" type, the team 

improves a bit thru a more positive atmosphere.

 

It's $14M they pissed that away on Leury.  You bring him back and hope for the best.  

[T R U]

On 7/4/2023 at 2:17 PM, scotty22hotty said:

I'm not getting my hopes up for any good returns after seeing what the Royals got for the best RP available a month before the deadline. (Chapman 1.4 fWAR for the Rangers ranked 20 & 35 prospects)

Have to imagine if hahn was offered a top 50 for gio, he'd be gone already.

Chapman is a bad human being who nobody wanted in the off-season when he could have been had for peanuts. He does not compare to a front of the rotation starting pitcher.

I would expect to get more for Giolito than the Reds got for Mahle last year.

 

[pcq]

7 minutes ago, T R U said:

Chapman is a bad human being who nobody wanted in the off-season when he could have been had for peanuts. He does not compare to a front of the rotation starting pitcher.

I would expect to get more for Giolito than the Reds got for Mahle last year.

 

Jimmy Cordero joins the wife-hater's club out for the season. 

[whitesoxfan99]

6 minutes ago, T R U said:

Chapman is a bad human being who nobody wanted in the off-season when he could have been had for peanuts. He does not compare to a front of the rotation starting pitcher.

I would expect to get more for Giolito than the Reds got for Mahle last year.

 

Giolito is probably a touch better than Mahle was last year (despite some worse peripherals) but Mahle also had an extra year of control.

[spiderman]

On 5/15/2023 at 7:56 PM, SouthSideGeorgia said:

With some assumptions (losing Giolito, not picking up Lance Lynn and Joe Kelly option)

Sox save potentially $43.525 million from ‘23 to ‘24. 

But increases in Sox players contracts are $29 million from ‘23 to ‘24. Chunk of that is Moncada and Benintendi contracts increases  

Therefore, a savings of only $14.525 million next year. 

And Sox still need to sign potentially 2 starters, catcher, 2b and bullpen arms next year. Maybe we stand pat at bullpen, catcher and 2b… but you still have to get two starters. 

The farm is devoid of starting pitching at the highest level maybe besides Davis Martin for next season. Then you have arbitration eligible players also that will make more money next year like Cease, Kopech and now Vaughn. ?

With our losing record, there is no way we don’t trade away assets. No way. There such a pending bloated payroll that the Sox have to get under control for a bad team. It’s inevitable.

No doubt we try trading away one year assets like Giolito, Middleton, Lopez, Grandal, Andrus, and Alberto. But only half may have any value. Based on where we stand and where we project next year, you also have to consider trading 2-yr assets like Anderson, Hendriks, Graveman, Clevinger, and Lynn. 
 

This is a pretty big crunch coming up and Sox need to free up payroll. It’s coming…

Aren't Anderson, Hendriks, Graveman, Clevinger, and Lynn all on club options for next season? I don't think they would bring back Clevinger and Lynn for sure. Probably not Hendriks either. I think Anderson should be exercised since it's only a small raise and I'd rather gamble on him getting things figured out.

I would expect the White Sox will require two well regarded prospects for Giolito. One of them needs to be a starting pitcher that they would expect to be in the rotation next season. Right now, that rotation is dangerously thin with Cease and probably Kopech/Crochet (both of whom are not reliable). Although it would make a lot of sense to get Giolito signed, but he's unlikely to sign without testing free agency and the White Sox are not known for offering long-term deals to pitchers.

They will have some payroll flexibility, but a lot of holes to fill without much help coming from the minors. They will need help at C, 2B, RF and potentially creative solutions at 3B/SS. Jimenez, Burger, Colas and Remillard will all likely be in the mix, but it's really concerning to continue bringing back most of the same offense that struggles to score runs. A bigger shakeup is necessary with the poor performance and injury concerns.

On the pitching side, they will need to add 1-2 starters in free agency and probably 1-2 bullpen arms, although I think all of us are hoping they stop giving relievers multi-year deals.

I don't expect this team to rebuild, but "reload". However, they are doing it with only some payroll flexibility, and that's assuming they don't cut payroll after seeing attendance drop drastically this year.

[T R U]

18 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

Giolito is probably a touch better than Mahle was last year (despite some worse peripherals) but Mahle also had an extra year of control.

It will depend on how many suitors there are and who they are as well. Hopefully, it lines up right for us.

[TheBooneLoganEra]

Exchanging Lucas Giolito and Joey Ortiz from the Orioles seems to be a no brainer for both clubs. If you can steal another prospect in the deal great. 

Package TA with a bullpen arm to get some mlb ready starting pitching in return. 

Shop your bullpen and see what you can get. But none of this keep them down for service time nonsense. Bring them to the big league club right away to let them bond here. It'll give us something to watch in the second half and maybe serve as a wake up call to some of the others. 

I realistically expect none of this to happen. 

[SoCalChiSox]

Get Rushing from the Dodgers. 

Left handed catcher with real pop and will likely stick at the position. 

[TheBooneLoganEra]

6 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Get Rushing from the Dodgers. 

Left handed catcher with real pop and will likely stick at the position. 

I like him a lot. Prob not ready til 2025.