Burger taking reps at 2B

[soxfaninfl]

Play him. Robert has had injury issues that have had nothing to do with Eloy and they did play together in the shortened 2020 season.

And put me in the camp that Eloy is just as important to the team as Robert. Not defensively but definitely with the bat.

[South Side Hit Men]

18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Have you ever watched him throw? 

It's just like Pollock over there over again...except Eloy is 3-5x likelier to get hurt and certainly more likely to injure Luis Robert inadvertently. 

Is it really a brilliant idea to have the likes of Eloy Sheets and Vaughn so close to completely screwing up one of the most important players in the AL Central (in terms of value to his franchise) with yet another injury? 

The Sox actually have a better record when Eloy doesn't play over his career.  He should have been traded after his hot streak last year, hope he can have a hot streak in June so he can be flipped for something of value that can also field 2B, RF or a SP.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said:

Play him. Robert has had injury issues that have had nothing to do with Eloy and they did play together in the shortened 2020 season.

And put me in the camp that Eloy is just as important to the team as Robert. Not defensively but definitely with the bat.

Then fWAR is completely pointless if one believes players like Eloy are of equal value...simply because even if he puts up Yordan Alvarez numbers, everything else in his game will almost completely negate those offensive positives. 

I mean, you could make the same type of argument that Burger has been just as impactful (ONLY on offense) when he's had opportunities these last two seasons. 

[Quin]

32 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The thing with Odor is that prior to last season, he was worth 2.6 1.0 and 1.3 in full seasons.

Only 29 and gives you multiple infield positions and likely at least a 1-1.5 fWAR season for a very affordable price. 

I know the bar should be closer to 2-2.5, but those players are much more expensive to sign in FA or trade for. What you can't do is be at NEGATIVE fWAR at so many positions. 

Virtually nobody thought Andrus would come close to a repeat, especially at a totally different position than where he's played his entire career. 

And that would be a one year band aid solution at best to surround the core of your rebuild with. 

2019: 1.0 fWAR

2020: -0.1 fWAR

2021: 1.3 fWAR

So, no?

[soxfaninfl]

You are making this argument when we have Sheets out there?

I am not suggesting a permanent, long-term fix. Obviously, this roster still needs work but I just think it’s the best option for now. I still have hopes for Colas after all but this all highlights the limitations created with the Benny signing and suspect draft choices.

[Quin]

52 minutes ago, Quin said:

2019: 1.0 fWAR

2020: -0.1 fWAR

2021: 1.3 fWAR

So, no?

To add to this: Mystery Player

2019: 1.8 fWAR

2020: 0.5 fWAR

2021: 1.8 fWAR

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Quin said:

2019: 1.0 fWAR

2020: -0.1 fWAR

2021: 1.3 fWAR

So, no?

You’re deliberately leaving 2018 out where he had 2.6.

We’re not talking someone making even a fraction of Moncada money here.

 

What happens when we do the same with Benintendi over his last 3-4 seasons and don’t just focus on his time last year playing a complementary role on an absolutely loaded Yankees’ team?  
 

You get more pricey Hahn misjudgements.

 

Hahn was way wrong on Pollock (coming off 3.0), way wrong on Benintendi…and yes, I would have taken Odor over Andrus/Sosa because the White Sox batting order can barely handle one rookie in Colas playing, let alone too.

 

[caulfield12]

28 minutes ago, Quin said:

To add to this: Mystery Player

2019: 1.8 fWAR

2020: 0.5 fWAR

2021: 1.8 fWAR

Leury Garcia in all likelihood .

[Quin]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

You’re deliberately leaving 2018 out where he had 2.6.

We’re not talking someone making even a fraction of Moncada money here.

 

What happens when we do the same with Benintendi over his last 3-4 seasons and don’t just focus on his time last year playing a complementary role on an absolutely loaded Yankees’ team?  
 

You get more pricey Hahn misjudgements.

 

Hahn was way wrong on Pollock (coming off 3.0), way wrong on Benintendi…and yes, I would have taken Odor over Andrus/Sosa because the White Sox batting order can barely handle one rookie in Colas playing, let alone too.

 

Ah, since you provided 3 seasons (while skipping his most recent season), I had assumed that you meant 2019-2021.

Because obviously 2018 is going to be more predictive of a player's 2023 than their 2022?

[Quin]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Leury Garcia in all likelihood .

Obviously.

If you want to go with bWAR for the absolute hell of it.

LG
2017: 1.0
2018: 0.9
2019: 1.3
2020: 0.7
2021: 2.1
2022: -1.0

RO
2017: -0.5
2018: -0.3
2019: -0.6
2020: -0.3
2021: -0.4
2022: 0.1

 

[Quin]

But this is besides the point:

Burger at 2B is stupid.

But Rougned Odor based on his 2018 (and not, for some reason, his 2022) would be stupid.

[caulfield12]

14 minutes ago, Quin said:

But this is besides the point:

Burger at 2B is stupid.

But Rougned Odor based on his 2018 (and not, for some reason, his 2022) would be stupid.

Then you can pretty much say the same for Moncada because of 2019…and another OBP dependent/defense-first season.

Not to mention long Covid.  And $24 and $25 million price tags in 2024/25.

 

But I will play along.  We would be better off this year with Leury because he can play everywhere on the field at least fairly competently and the odds of him being overexposed would be greatly diminished.

Instead, that sunk cost went in the direction of Alberto and Andrus, but nothing has been solved at all long-term.

[The Mighty Mite]

Right now I’m leaning for Jake to take over at first base with Vaughn and Sheets platooning as DH. I was expecting big things from AV but he’s regressing and where the hell are the home runs from him.

[Texsox]

Hahn should have known as soon as Vaughn was moved he'd turn to crap. 

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Hahn should have known as soon as Vaughn was moved he'd turn to crap. 

Well yeah, yesterday Vaughn might have turned some opinions around... granted against terrible pitching. 

[Snopek]

Ok new idea

 

[ChiSoxTrojan]

On 5/26/2023 at 11:20 AM, caulfield12 said:

The thing with Odor is that prior to last season, he was worth 2.6 1.0 and 1.3 in full seasons.

Only 29 and gives you multiple infield positions and likely at least a 1-1.5 fWAR season for a very affordable price. 

I know the bar should be closer to 2-2.5, but those players are much more expensive to sign in FA or trade for. What you can't do is be at NEGATIVE fWAR at so many positions. 

Virtually nobody thought Andrus would come close to a repeat, especially at a totally different position than where he's played his entire career. 

And that would be a one year band aid solution at best to surround the core of your rebuild with. 

Odor has a career .725 OPS against RHP. Not great, but it's better than Andrus's career .684 mark. With Alberto already signed, and other RH 2B options like Romy/Sosa also in consideration for a roster spot, they really just needed someone to hit against RHP. Odor wouldn't have been a flashy signing, but probably would have given them better overall performance at the position. He was the best LH infielder available towards the end of the offseason.

I think Hahn was trying to trade for a LH second baseman, which is why the Andrus signing was so late, but as usual he wasn't able to get a deal done. So he bet that Andrus's small sample size from last year outweighed the rest of his mediocre career, which is a bet that he is currently losing.

[JoeC]

Odor throws a mean right hook.

[JoeC]

Edited May 27, 2023 by JoeC

[ChiSoxTrojan]

As for the topic of this thread (Burger at 2B), I'm in the camp of preferring Burger at 3B and Moncada at 2B. I think having two competent defenders at 2B and 3B is better than having gold glove caliber defense at one position and a complete black hole at the other.

This is under the assumption that Burger would make a really, really bad 2B. He has surprising speed, I just don't see the athleticism that's required for 2B . Of course the Sox coaches are in a better position to judge his ability at the position, but I don't exactly trust them to make the decision that's best for the team over secondary concerns like worrying about hurting Moncada's feelings.

[Texsox]

I'm all for giving guys opportunities to improve their versatility and ultimately their paychecks. 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I'm all for giving guys opportunities to improve their versatility and ultimately their paychecks. 

For some reason, Moncada is the one player in the sport that can't ever be moved around. 

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

For some reason, Moncada is the one player in the sport that can't ever be moved around. 

Wasn't he moved to 3rd when we drafted Madrigal? 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Wasn't he moved to 3rd when we drafted Madrigal? 

Yes, I meant after he was moved to third and hasn't been moved since... as his defense at second was borderline terrible. 

[Balta1701]

10 hours ago, JoeC said:

Odor throws a mean right hook.

So does Clevinger.