Sox @ Tigers 12:40

[soxrwhite]

With Hendricks back the team is finally whole. Lets not give up in May. There is still time in this division.

[Snopek]

6 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

is this where you're at now, Sox fans airing their grievances, maybe a little reactionary at times, so you jump down people's throats for being pissed at the wrong thing? Lol

this team fucking sucks, front office sucks, and your post sucked

I have no idea what you’re talking about

[The Mighty Mite]

2 hours ago, baseballgalaly said:

This is where I land. I think the talent was there, but the Sox were unable to help these players reach their potential. 

I also wonder why players come to the Sox and all of the sudden forget how to hit HRs since TLR took over. 

Because the last hiiting coach wanted them to hit singles and not swing for the fences. Could be one of the reasons that Abreu only hit 15 homers last year and has none for the Astros this year.

Edited May 29, 2023 by The Mighty Mite

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Because the last hiiting coach wanted them to hit singles and not swing for the fences. Could be one of the reasons that Abreu only hit 15 homers last year and has none for the Astros this year.

One now...out ahead of Benintendi Tim Anderson Madrigal.

[The Mighty Mite]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

One now...out ahead of Benintendi Tim Anderson Madrigal.

Good for him, on a pace for 3 for the year.

[Highland]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Hawk hired Jim Fregosi who was experienced and was a good baseball man but had bad players. Jeff Torberg was also a good hire. 
Firing Renteria and bringing in TLR was one of the biggest blunders in White Sox history.

Fregosi and Torberg were a long time ago. Meanwhile, we have had Ventura and that dope from the late 90's.

[SonofaRoache]

40 minutes ago, soxrwhite said:

With Hendricks back the team is finally whole. Lets not give up in May. There is still time in this division.

Come on. This was supposed to be a champion, it's over. 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Highland said:

Fregosi and Torberg were a long time ago. Meanwhile, we have had Ventura and that dope from the late 90's.

Bevington?  Surely not Manuel, he was decent for most of his tenure.

[Harry Chappas]

2 hours ago, Joecredesjockstrap said:

That about sums it up with Grifol “scripted” makes more sense than common sense. 

I posted that right after the game.  My God they are inept. 

[The Mighty Mite]

16 minutes ago, Highland said:

Fregosi and Torberg were a long time ago. Meanwhile, we have had Ventura and that dope from the late 90's.

A long time for me is back in the 50s and 60s with Paul Richards, Al Lopez and Eddie Stanky who were all great managers especially Lopez who is the best Sox manager of all time. Chuck Tanner in the early 70s was pretty good also.

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by The Mighty Mite

[greg775]

Wonder what the Sox all time record in Detroit's new park (is it still called Comerica?) is. Sox are not built to win in big yard. Sox not built to win anywhere really but I can see why they consistently lose in Detroit.

Still can't believe nobody got fired during the 10 game losing streak. It cost the Sox any relevance and makes it a wasted season. Puke loss today.

[Stinky Stanky]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Our hitting coach was a career minor leaguer for 14 years and never made to the Major Leauges.

We're supposed to be going for the power that was missing the last some years.  That would explain part of it.  And no one ever confused Charlie Lau with Rod Carew either.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Stinky Stanky

[tray]

How was Vaughn "ruined" by having him play in the outfield ? AV needs a big leg kick to generate power and as a result he has a lot of swing and miss at outside sinkers. He is what we thought he was - a decent .250 hitter who should average about 20HR  per season and play average defense at 1B. Not bad at all bat at the same time, not an All-Star. So I don't blame Andrew for swinging and missing in the 10th because that is what he does a lot of when pitchers heed the scouting reports on him.

I also don't blame Tim for not throwing out a runner trying to score. That is a tough play to make for any short stop. Even if he catches it and transfers the ball cleanly, he may not have gotten the runner tagged out. Tim scored a run  that Steve Stone said no other Sox player could have.

Moncada is a vacuum cleaner at 3B. Another incredible play today.

Eloy had an appendectomy about 3 weeks ago yet despite that, he laid himself out on his sewn-up belly to slide in safely with  the go ahead run.

I did not like the way Robert played that ball in the 9th. If he keeps doing things like that, maybe he will end up in Right field. He has all the talent but he has to play smarter. Hold up and play some balls on the bounce.

Not sure why Graveman was taken out after a 6 pitch inning or why Grifol used Kelly after he was recently bombed.

Bad luck, poor playing and decision making but somehow, with reduced expectations for this team, I managed to enjoy most of the game. It is how you look at things as you get older. Trust me on this.

[JoshPR]

1 hour ago, soxrwhite said:

With Hendricks back the team is finally whole. Lets not give up in May. There is still time in this division.

I admire your optimism. There's a really slight chance. Pedro needs to keep a consistent lineup to see if they finally get momentum. Guys like Robert have to step up on offense and Defense. 

[foxaparicio]

Hendricks was not all that great last year...

[Sleepy Harold]

5 minutes ago, foxaparicio said:

Hendricks was not all that 

Could've been due to the part where he was quite possibly pitching last year with cancer. 

[Harry Chappas]

4 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Could've been due to the part where he was quite possibly pitching last year with cancer. 

I hate to say this but this organization does not deserve Liam.  He is everything a majority of this organization is not, a winner,

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, soxrwhite said:

With Hendricks back the team is finally whole. Lets not give up in May. There is still time in this division.

Brooks, is that you?

[caulfield12]

33 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

I admire your optimism. There's a really slight chance. Pedro needs to keep a consistent lineup to see if they finally get momentum. Guys like Robert have to step up on offense and Defense. 

Hard to do when he wasn't allowed to play yesterday...he and Burger have been carrying the offense for most of May.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

45 minutes ago, tray said:

How was Vaughn "ruined" by having him play in the outfield ?

 

It's all about developing young talent.  Good organizations take a high draft pick and start him out in their minor league system where they are acclimated to professional baseball, observed and then allowed to work on areas they need improvement and taught fundamentals if lacking, and also the finer points of hitting and fielding their positions.  As they show they can handle the level of competition they are promoted to a higher level until after a couple of years or more they are ready for the major leagues.  There are exceptions of course, but those are usually the superstars with elite talent.

The Sox draft Vaughn, a good hitting 1B prospect and instead of developing him in the minor leagues, throw him into the fire in the majors on what is supposed to be a championship contending team, and instead of playing him at his natural position make him play a position he has never played before, forcing him to try to adjust to major league pitching while trying to learn a new position on a team that is expected to win now.

He should have been in the minors learning the finer points of playing defense at 1B for those first couple of years.  Instead now he's the starting first baseman after not having played there regularly for a couple of years and so it's no surprise that he hasn't played exceptionally well there defensively.   Still, he's leading the team in RBIs and his defense should improve with experience. He's still young so he may still reach his potential.

The point is that the White Sox organization does not develop it's young players the way competent organizations do.  Fortunately Vaughn wasn't ruined but his development was most likely delayed.  But that kind of handling can ruin a young player.

To make a long story short, this organization sucks.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

A long time for me is back in the 50s and 60s with Paul Richards, Al Lopez and Eddie Stanky who were all great managers especially Lopez who is the best Sox manager of all time.

Reviews statistics. Checks out.

• 1st White Sox Games over .500 (190: 840-650-5 .564)
• Tied 1st White Sox World Series Appearances
  • Fielder Jones (1906 - Chicago A. L 4 Chicago N. L. 2)
  • Pants Rowland (1917 - Chicago A. L. 4 New York N. L. 2)
  • Kid Gleason (1919 -  Cincinnati 5 Chicago A. L. 3)
  • Al Lopez (1959 - Los Angeles N. L. 4 Chicago A. L. 2)
  • Ozzie Guillen (2005 - Chicago A. L. 4 Houston 0)
• 2nd White Sox Games Managed & Won (1,495 - Jimmy Dykes #1 899-940-11)
• 5th White Sox Winning Percentage (Jones .592; Griffith .581; Rowland .578; Marion .565)

The only criticism my Grandfather had for not starting Pierce in the World Series. He pitched flawless in a relief role (3 Appearances, 4 Innings, 3 Ks, 1.000 WHIP, 0 ER or R. He started 33 games that season, and while he didn't have his typical best stuff that season, he was better than Dick Donovan during the season and World Series. Still blame that bullshit USC Football Field configurations for a distorted stadium and World Series experience.

https://sabr.org/journal/article/a-home-like-no-other-the-dodgers-in-l-a-memorial-coliseum/

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

Wonder what the Sox all time record in Detroit's new park (is it still called Comerica?) is. Sox are not built to win in big yard. Sox not built to win anywhere really but I can see why they consistently lose in Detroit.

Still can't believe nobody got fired during the 10 game losing streak. It cost the Sox any relevance and makes it a wasted season. Puke loss today.

Yes, you need to put your three best outfielders to cover the expansive field. Same with Colorado and San Francisco.

White Sox records in Detroit through 5/28/23:

• All Time Record (1901-2023): 514-596 .463
• Tigers Bank Park (2000-2023): 105-105 .500
• Tigers Stadium (1912-1999): 364-425 .461
• Bennett Park (1901-1911): 45-66 .405

1 hour ago, tray said:

How was Vaughn "ruined" by having him play in the outfield ? AV needs a big leg kick to generate power and as a result he has a lot of swing and miss at outside sinkers. He is what we thought he was - a decent .250 hitter who should average about 20HR  per season and play average defense at 1B. Not bad at all bat at the same time, not an All-Star.

Hope all is well. I was excited watching the past two weeks until Saturday. Might not be a lot of wins the rest of the way.

Vaughn has room for improvement being 25, but he has to improve to be middle of the pack for a 1B in 2023.

• Current fWAR Rank: 44th out of 60.
• fWAR Rank among qualified starters (3.1 ABs per game): 25th out of 30 (24th Offense, 23rd Defense).
• Batting Average: 23rd out of 30.
• OBP: 24th out of 30.
• Slugging %: 19th out of 30.

Edited May 29, 2023 by South Side Hit Men

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

It's all about developing young talent.  Good organizations take a high draft pick and start him out in their minor league system where they are acclimated to professional baseball, observed and then allowed to work on areas they need improvement and taught fundamentals if lacking, and also the finer points of hitting and fielding their positions.  As they show they can handle the level of competition they are promoted to a higher level until after a couple of years or more they are ready for the major leagues.  There are exceptions of course, but those are usually the superstars with elite talent.

The Sox draft Vaughn, a good hitting 1B prospect and instead of developing him in the minor leagues, throw him into the fire in the majors on what is supposed to be a championship contending team, and instead of playing him at his natural position make him play a position he has never played before, forcing him to try to adjust to major league pitching while trying to learn a new position on a team that is expected to win now.

He should have been in the minors learning the finer points of playing defense at 1B for those first couple of years.  Instead now he's the starting first baseman after not having played there regularly for a couple of years and so it's no surprise that he hasn't played exceptionally well there defensively.   Still, he's leading the team in RBIs and his defense should improve with experience. He's still young so he may still reach his potential.

The point is that the White Sox organization does not develop it's young players the way competent organizations do.  Fortunately Vaughn wasn't ruined but his development was most likely delayed.  But that kind of handling can ruin a young player.

To make a long story short, this organization sucks.

There are numerous examples. 

Moving Viciedo Beckham and Josh Fields all over the place to meet current big league club needs. 

Giving up on Narvaez due to defensive concerns. 

Giving up on Semien way too quickly... pigeon holing as a utility guy with limited upside because of lingering questions about his defense. 

Giving up on Borchard without even giving him a full half season of playing time...because "competing"

Brian Anderson, same reason.  He wasn't forced toake any adjustments and got nlby with sheer athletic talent on defense but lots of bad mechanical flaws as a hitter. 

 

Drafting the likes of Sale Crochet Burdi Ring and Poreda to jump into pennant races or contribute more or less immediately without much time in the minors. 

Same with philosophy behind drafting McCulloch and Broadway in the first round... to join big league team as back end starters as quickly as possible. 

[pcq]

10 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Could've been due to the part where he was quite possibly pitching last year with cancer. 

The guy was stage four so I would not put too much on his shoulders. 

[The Kids Can Play]

15 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Our hitting coach was a career minor leaguer for 14 years and never made to the Major Leagues.

Good point and our manager who came from a worst organization than the Sox, where the Royals FO had no desire to hire Grifol to be the manager at KC and instead went to Tampa Bay for their next manager. Granted I know Matt Quatraro hasn't done well there yet, but he is working with even less talent than the White Sox.

They can fire Grifol and his entire coaching staff and that won't solve the overall main problem, Until they fire Rick Hahn nothing will change. His entire front office, scouts and coaches from low A to the major league level need to be eliminated. The White Sox blueprint for building a winning baseball club is a embarrassing joke and trainwreck. It's obviously not even close to the winning blueprints of the Rays, Dodgers, Braves and Yankees to name a few. 

[superchops70]

I am so sick of this philosophy that relievers can only pitch one inning no matter what. You look at our pitchers, starters included, and you never know if they're gonna bring their A game or their D/F game. It's a complete crapshoot. So if you get a reliever who appears to be on his A game, leave them in for two innings for Pete's sake, because when you bring in a brand new reliever in the next inning, it's going be a complete roll of the dice as to what kind of stuff they're going to have. It just makes absolutely no sense.