Lance Lynn

[caulfield12]

Tanner Bibee, btw, already has a 2.65 ERA...which is worlds better than anyone in the Sox current rotation...doing it as a rookie.

Investing an entire draft class in pitching, for example.

That's another unique approach that the White Sox have never considered.

 

And actually they have 13 starting pitchers, because Eli "Captain" Morgan could go back from swing man in the pen to starting, where he's equally comfortable.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

On 5/31/2023 at 9:31 PM, Rusty_Kuntz said:

Last time he saw 275 was about 2018.

 

He’s a heavenly boy

[Boopa1219]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The dumb ass traded for Kimbrel as his best idea.

The dumb ass picked up Kimbrel's option, passed on Rodon's QO.

The dumb ass received one weak ass Kimbrel offer for an even more overpriced reserve OFer.

The dumb ass can absolutely pick up Lynn's option if he somehow strings together a few decent starts against Central s%*# to close the season.

Never underestimate the damage Hahn can and will do to this White Sox organization.

The Kimbrel trade made a lot of sense and a lot of people here applauded it when it happened. And a lot of people here didn’t hate the Pollock trade when it happened either.

While those moves didn’t work out, the thought and process behind them made sense at the time. Like Lynn, acquiring him for a title run made a lot of sense but that time has passed and they need to cut bait. 

[caulfield12]

33 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

The Kimbrel trade made a lot of sense and a lot of people here applauded it when it happened. And a lot of people here didn’t hate the Pollock trade when it happened either.

While those moves didn’t work out, the thought and process behind them made sense at the time. Like Lynn, acquiring him for a title run made a lot of sense but that time has passed and they need to cut bait. 

The problem is that all of these veterans added to the core...Kimbrel (misleading first half numbers compared to the prior 2-3 seasons with the Red Sox and Cubs), Keuchel, Grandal, Abreu (last contract extension), Lynn, Hendriks, AJ Pollock, relievers like Kelly and Graveman...all of them were already (well) past their peak. 

(You can even make the same case that 2023 Benintendi might still be "young," but not in baseball terms and his remaining upside or ceiling.)

 

We lost Rodon AT his peak.

Traded Madrigal.

Are about to lose Giolito in his 20's as well...with Cease and Kopech not far behind.

The young players and veterans simply never hit their strides together at the same time.  Not even close to everything being synchronized roster-wise.

Edited June 2, 2023 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

46 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

The Kimbrel trade made a lot of sense and a lot of people here applauded it when it happened. And a lot of people here didn’t hate the Pollock trade when it happened either.

While those moves didn’t work out, the thought and process behind them made sense at the time. Like Lynn, acquiring him for a title run made a lot of sense but that time has passed and they need to cut bait. 

I thought that was a great move at the time.

A couple weeks later while trying to see why he was doing so bad all of a sudden I looked at more than the top line on his stats and realized my mistake. With the Cubs he had been sporting career low BABIP and HR/FB rates, things suggesting his first half was hugely lucky and his second half would probably be no where near that good. Had I bothered to look at anything other than his ERA, I would have suddenly been way more concerned. 

Then I realized…the millionaire GM missed that also. Never scrolled past the first line of his Fangraphs stats.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I thought that was a great move at the time.

A couple weeks later while trying to see why he was doing so bad all of a sudden I looked at more than the top line on his stats and realized my mistake. With the Cubs he had been sporting career low BABIP and HR/FB rates, things suggesting his first half was hugely lucky and his second half would probably be no where near that good. Had I bothered to look at anything other than his ERA, I would have suddenly been way more concerned. 

Then I realized…the millionaire GM missed that also. Never scrolled past the first line of his Fangraphs stats.

Hahn doesn't make trades in a vaccuum. They do have MLB scouts and an analytics dept. ( I think).

I know you aren't implying Hahn was solely responsible and the only input he had was his own view of Fangraphs.

Most of MLB probably came to the same conclusion you discovered in hindsight which is why the Cubs got only Madrigal and Heuer although that was a lot of years for a few months of Kimbrel. Plenty of time for them to get some value from those 2.

[flavum]

Scholtens was sent down.

Lynn should have been Keuchel’d.

[ScootsMcGoots]

8 minutes ago, flavum said:

Scholtens was sent down.

Lynn should have been Keuchel’d.

I think the difference is Lynn is actually a kind of leader (for the pitching staff, anyways), Keuchel became a clubhouse cancer.

[The Kids Can Play]

11 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I thought that was a great move at the time.

A couple weeks later while trying to see why he was doing so bad all of a sudden I looked at more than the top line on his stats and realized my mistake. With the Cubs he had been sporting career low BABIP and HR/FB rates, things suggesting his first half was hugely lucky and his second half would probably be no where near that good. Had I bothered to look at anything other than his ERA, I would have suddenly been way more concerned. 

Then I realized…the millionaire GM missed that also. Never scrolled past the first line of his Fangraphs stats.

I don't agree it was a good idea at the time. As Caulfield pointed out: Kimbrel had misleading first half numbers compared to the prior 2-3 seasons with the Cubs.

2019 - Cubs - 6.53 ERA

2020 - Cubs - 5.28 ERA

All I know is, of all my friends and family who are Cubs fans...they were ecstatic to get rid of Kimbrel. 

Yes Madrigal hasn't done well since leaving the Sox and obviously being sent down to Cubs AAA. However at the time the Cubs traded for Nick, he had two good years with us at BA .317, OBP 358. If were were going to trade Madrigal and Heuer, then we should have gotten more, or given the Cubs less in that trade. 

Keep in mind, on several other teams in MLB, Madrigal would still be on a roster. Sadly for Nick, he plays on the Cubs with Nico Hoerner and Dansby Swanson. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

30 minutes ago, flavum said:

Scholtens was sent down.

Lynn should have been Keuchel’d.

No corresponding addition to the roster as of yet, though. Clevinger off the IL?

[flavum]

7 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

No corresponding addition to the roster as of yet, though. Clevinger off the IL?

Clevinger is starting tonight

(his pic was up on the Sox site as the starter a little while ago. Now it’s TBD. Probably still him.)

Edited June 2, 2023 by flavum

[Kyyle23]

5 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I don't agree it was a good idea at the time. As Caulfield pointed out: Kimbrel had misleading first half numbers compared to the prior 2-3 seasons with the Cubs.

2019 - Cubs - 6.53 ERA

2020 - Cubs - 5.28 ERA

All I know is, of all my friends and family who are Cubs fans...they were ecstatic to get rid of Kimbrel. 

Yes Madrigal hasn't done well since leaving the Sox and obviously being sent down to Cubs AAA. However at the time the Cubs traded for Nick, he had two good years with us at BA .317, OBP 358. If were were going to trade Madrigal and Heuer, then we should have gotten more, or given the Cubs less in that trade. 

Keep in mind, on several other teams in MLB, Madrigal would still be on a roster. Sadly for Nick, he plays on the Cubs with Nico Hoerner and Dansby Swanson. 

The two years with us both ended in injury.  And we were all starting to get real nervous about his baseball IQ especially running the bases.  The BA was nice but it never meant anything because he got hurt 

edit: forgot he came back in 2020 but he only played 29 games.  Point is he missed significant time 

[Boopa1219]

On 6/1/2023 at 7:31 PM, caulfield12 said:

Tanner Bibee, btw, already has a 2.65 ERA...which is worlds better than anyone in the Sox current rotation...doing it as a rookie.

Investing an entire draft class in pitching, for example.

That's another unique approach that the White Sox have never considered.

 

And actually they have 13 starting pitchers, because Eli "Captain" Morgan could go back from swing man in the pen to starting, where he's equally comfortable.

I would say that they just did that. 

[caulfield12]

30 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

I would say that they just did that. 

https://www.soxon35th.com/2022-mlb-draft-all-white-sox-draft-picks/

Four picks in first ten rounds were position players but the majority front-loaded with pitchers. 

[MiddleCoastBias]

Lance Lynn kicks rocks.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

Wrong thread

Edited June 8, 2023 by FourEyesShottenhoffer

[Texsox]

I think the Madrigal trade was about as even as could be expected. Both teams knew they had time bombs on their hands. I suspect they also knew they were receiving time bombs. Thinking we could get another half season at current level out of Kimbrel wasn't the worse prediction. Knowing Nicky wasn't going to play more than 60 or 70 games a year was another solid prediction. 

Good trade for both teams. 

[SouthSideGeorgia]

The year Dallas Keuchel was DFA after:

8 starts for Sox in 2022,
2-5, 7.88 ERA, 32 innings, 49 hits, 6 HR, 20 Walks, 0.323 batting avg. 

Lance Lynn in 13 games:
4-6, 6.72 ERA, 72.1 innings, 84 hits, 16 home Runs, 29 walks, 0.285 BA

 

It may not be quite as bad as Keuchel, but the only reasons Lynn hasn’t been DFA’d is the money, the fact that Lynn isn’t a dugout cancer like Keuchel, and the fact that we have no one obviously ready to take over for Lynn. 
 

At this point, I am honestly wondering why not give the starts to Scholtens. It doesn’t seem like it could be that bad. Only things lynn give you is he’s an innings eater… but who cares with an ERA like that?!?

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

I think the Madrigal trade was about as even as could be expected. Both teams knew they had time bombs on their hands. I suspect they also knew they were receiving time bombs. Thinking we could get another half season at current level out of Kimbrel wasn't the worse prediction. Knowing Nicky wasn't going to play more than 60 or 70 games a year was another solid prediction. 

Good trade for both teams. 

Until you consider the QO for Kimbrel, then the trade for Pollock (look at his OPS THIS year for Seattle), and then basically being "forced" into forking out $75 million for Benintendi due the lack of capable outfield prospects (other than Colas, in theory) in the minors...not to mention Eloy's "highway to the danger zone" act in LF.

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, SouthSideGeorgia said:

The year Dallas Keuchel was DFA after:

8 starts for Sox in 2022,
2-5, 7.88 ERA, 32 innings, 49 hits, 6 HR, 20 Walks, 0.323 batting avg. 

Lance Lynn in 13 games:
4-6, 6.72 ERA, 72.1 innings, 84 hits, 16 home Runs, 29 walks, 0.285 BA

It may not be quite as bad as Keuchel, but the only reasons Lynn hasn’t been DFA’d is the money, the fact that Lynn isn’t a dugout cancer like Keuchel, and the fact that we have no one obviously ready to take over for Lynn. 
 

At this point, I am honestly wondering why not give the starts to Scholtens. It doesn’t seem like it could be that bad. Only things lynn give you is he’s an innings eater… but who cares with an ERA like that?!?

I think he could be either IL'd if he is hurt, or also to allow him to work some side sessions until he can possibly perform effectively.

No need to DFA him unless they know internally he is a cancer in the clubhouse. With the Moncada incident this week and the 3rd Base coach incident last year, not sure if those are the exceptions or his MO over 2 plus seasons.

If he provides two appearances a week, even up or down by 5+ runs, and eats up 4-6 innings until he can possibly return to the rotation, he would still provide value saving more effective guys for more important appearances. Crochet could be the multi-inning guy for close games, the other six are for one inning appearances.

[ron883]

Lance Lynn's schtick gets old when he plays like s%*#. He also has horrible takes on everything. I'm sick of this dude. 

[soxrwhite]

Maybe he will have a good second half. Could happen.

[Texsox]

10 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Until you consider the QO for Kimbrel, then the trade for Pollock (look at his OPS THIS year for Seattle), and then basically being "forced" into forking out $75 million for Benintendi due the lack of capable outfield prospects (other than Colas, in theory) in the minors...not to mention Eloy's "highway to the danger zone" act in LF.

I'm not following you. You seen to be making a different point. Mine was both teams unloaded time bombs that weren't going to pan out long term for either team. Taking a chance on Kimbrel having one great season when we potentially needed one great season wasn't the worst decision. 

Now if you want to discuss how we got into that jam and left that jam, then yes, it was a bad situation. 

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I'm not following you. You seen to be making a different point. Mine was both teams unloaded time bombs that weren't going to pan out long term for either team. Taking a chance on Kimbrel having one great season when we potentially needed one great season wasn't the worst decision. 

Now if you want to discuss how we got into that jam and left that jam, then yes, it was a bad situation. 

There’s always a bigger picture.

Dumping Valentin, Lee and Ordonez led to the greatest season in White Sox history because of how that money was reallocated across numerous key veteran contributors who combined to have the season of their lives.

From a talent standpoint, illogical, almost.  But from a team/chemistry and financial standpoint, it was almost magical.

That $65 million payroll from 18 years ago is almost the yearly salary for just two star players right now.

Edited June 9, 2023 by caulfield12

[Quin]

On 6/1/2023 at 8:31 PM, caulfield12 said:

Tanner Bibee, btw, already has a 2.65 ERA...which is worlds better than anyone in the Sox current rotation...doing it as a rookie.

Investing an entire draft class in pitching, for example.

That's another unique approach that the White Sox have never considered.

 

And actually they have 13 starting pitchers, because Eli "Captain" Morgan could go back from swing man in the pen to starting, where he's equally comfortable.

It was a short draft, but 2020 still happened.