WBWSF Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 42 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: If Yoan keeps playing like he is now , he won't get $10M after his current contract runs out for 2025. Guys who slug under .400 and OPS under .700 who play only a power position and only that position, who are hurt often do not make $10M. I'm not talking about IL stints. He moves around like he's always hurt and that's what we keeping hearing. If he keeps playing like this he won't be playing for anybody in 2025. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 4 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said: He was the #1 ranked MLB prospect and the #1 piece in the first rebuild trade in 2016 for Chris Sale. He was suppose to be a big contributor to those multiple championships, as well as being a perennial second base all-star for the Sox. His 2023 stat line of .245/.303/382/.684 and lifetime stat line of .253/.333/.423/.756 is not what the Sox signed up for and expected in return. It's time to close the book on "What could have been" and trade him! Enough is enough! Burger needs to be the 3B starter. Maybe on a different winning team, where they have more veteran leaders, maybe he can resurrect his career. Although I personally doubt he would even do it with the Dodgers. With all of Moncada's constant injuries and the non-stop discussion in this forum of his motivation and desire levels at nauseum...actually does make Moncada the most frustrating Sox player in my opinion. You can’t trade him. People need to stop suggesting to trade Moncada. He’s not tradable. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 At this point, give me the offense. Let's see what we have in Burger, we know what we have in Moncada. Turn him into a super sub, 3B, 2B and corner OF. f*** it. I'm over the "but he's such a great defender" (i was in this camp as well until now).. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said: Guys, if Gordon Beckham and his then .210/.600 average/OPS were able to hang around the majors from 2014-2019, Yoan Moncada will have absolutely no fucking problem hanging around the major league for a decade on defense alone. What Yoan Moncada actually is is the most overly criticized player in recent White Sox history, especially on this forum. He still sports a 3.3 WAR per 162. Is he overpaid? Hell yes. He is not worth $25 million. Is he going to have a problem getting $10 million a year until he's 35? Absolutely not. By that measure, Tatis is 7.8 fWAR/162, but the most dangerous contract in the history of the sport according to some. The problem is Moncada can't consistently stay on the field now and so much of that fWAR was driven by 2019's offense and 2021's defense. If I'm generous and extrapolate his averages for 2020 and 2023 out to 162, he's at basically 125 games played per season...which means the reality is he's much closer to a 2.6 player after six seasons. And most would take the under moving forward. At any rate, nobody would value Buxton on the open market today at 4.9 fWAR for 162, Mike Trout 9.3 and Acuna Jr. 6.0, for example, by that same metric. Acuna...maybe, but he's the best player in the game today in the absolute prime of his career and 100% over his knee injury now. Edited June 6, 2023 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 33 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: You can’t trade him. People need to stop suggesting to trade Moncada. He’s not tradable. He needs to be traded and he can be traded! It doesn't matter what they get back. He is a waste of a roster spot for the absurd amount of wasted money they pay him. The Sox should be willing to eat some of the remaining money and trade him for couple of prospects. Every single year there are always several hungry teams that will be desperate, in this case for a third baseman at the trade deadline wanting to go for it all. He is taking away a spot from Burger. Plus once you have Moncada gone along with a few others, you will see a huge clubhouse attitude, morale and excitement improvement on this team. He is making 17 million this year. Next year since you don't see to want to trade him, you will pay him 24 million in 2024. That would be dumb. If you don't trade him in 2024 then you will have to pay him 25 million in 2025 or use your Sox club option and buy him out for 5 million. It would be stupid to go another year at 24 million and then have to buy him out prior to 2025. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said: You can’t trade him. People need to stop suggesting to trade Moncada. He’s not tradable. The only way you trade him is as a throw in with someone like TA or Robert and the Sox still paying part of his salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilehoopster Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 58 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: At this point, give me the offense. Let's see what we have in Burger, we know what we have in Moncada. Turn him into a super sub, 3B, 2B and corner OF. f*** it. I'm over the "but he's such a great defender" (i was in this camp as well until now).. Agree 100%. Also, list me as one of those who believe it’s much more about lack of motivation than about injury or a bad back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) None of us can properly judge Yoan's current health status. if this is who he is 100% healthy, then he is a platoon 3B go forward. The Sox Organization has managed all of their recent significant injuries for s%*#. Robert, Moncada, Grandal, Anderson, etc.. I understand the frustration, but based on comments and how he has appeared vs. LHP, he should be on the IL., or at bare minimum sit against LHS. Edited June 6, 2023 by South Side Hit Men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 22 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: He needs to be traded and he can be traded! It doesn't matter what they get back. He is a waste of a roster spot for the absurd amount of wasted money they pay him. The Sox should be willing to eat some of the remaining money and trade him for couple of prospects. Every single year there are always several hungry teams that will be desperate, in this case for a third baseman at the trade deadline wanting to go for it all. He is taking away a spot from Burger. Plus once you have Moncada gone along with a few others, you will see a huge clubhouse attitude, morale and excitement improvement on this team. He is making 17 million this year. Next year since you don't see to want to trade him, you will pay him 24 million in 2024. That would be dumb. If you don't trade him in 2024 then you will have to pay him 25 million in 2025 or use your Sox club option and buy him out for 5 million. It would be stupid to go another year at 24 million and then have to buy him out prior to 2025. I agree on the attitude but it’s also TA and Robert, all three of these guys look like they hate playing baseball and would rather be somewhere else. Eloy’s got a much better attitude but if the Sox put him back at DH where he belongs he will probably start sulking too. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: You can’t trade him. People need to stop suggesting to trade Moncada. He’s not tradable. Eh, everybody is tradeable, but the Sox aren't going to eat the money it would take. You just hope at some point he finds some consistent health and contact and returns to a 3-4 WAR player, not 1.5-2.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 If he is not healthy why isn't burger playing? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 I think Moncada's "potential" is way in the rear view mirror now. What you see is what you get. It hasn't worked with him for various reasons, not just a single one. Part of it is "bad luck" but I'd suggest a bigger part is his attitude, like others told me over the winter, people professionally connected to the Sox organization, he got his money (and like some others) now doesn't care as much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 9 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: I think Moncada's "potential" is way in the rear view mirror now. What you see is what you get. It hasn't worked with him for various reasons, not just a single one. Part of it is "bad luck" but I'd suggest a bigger part is his attitude, like others told me over the winter, people professionally connected to the Sox organization, he got his money (and like some others) now doesn't care as much. So those same professionals that traded for him, failed to develop him, failed to ID his supposed "mental weakness" and then handed him a big contract are now covering their ass. That's what you're hearing dude. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Still a good glove but he might be breaking down what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 4 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: At this point, give me the offense. Let's see what we have in Burger, we know what we have in Moncada. Turn him into a super sub, 3B, 2B and corner OF. f*** it. I'm over the "but he's such a great defender" (i was in this camp as well until now).. As soon as I liked this comment, the Yankees broadcasters remarked on how great YoYo's defensive positioning is ? Maybe I don't know anything about baseball (I'm new to this board because I'm sick of the Bulls...I learned quickly the Sox are hardly different however), but wouldn't this team be a lot better if you just moved every infielder over a position and put Burger at 3B? If Moncada is such a great defender, why not play him at a premium defensive position like shortstop? Similarly, don't you hide TA's mediocre defense a bit by putting him at 2B? Rather see Burger every day than some combination of Alberto/Gonzalez/Andrus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 8 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said: Guys, if Gordon Beckham and his then .210/.600 average/OPS were able to hang around the majors from 2014-2019, Yoan Moncada will have absolutely no fucking problem hanging around the major league for a decade on defense alone. What Yoan Moncada actually is is the most overly criticized player in recent White Sox history, especially on this forum. He still sports a 3.3 WAR per 162. Is he overpaid? Hell yes. He is not worth $25 million. Is he going to have a problem getting $10 million a year until he's 35? Absolutely not. Take out 2019 and what do we get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: Eh, everybody is tradeable, but the Sox aren't going to eat the money it would take. You just hope at some point he finds some consistent health and contact and returns to a 3-4 WAR player, not 1.5-2.5. There is nothing wrong with Yoan being a 1.5-2 WAR player with upside for more. He’s absolutely overpaid, but that’s frankly irrelevant. He’s the best 3B option on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: So those same professionals that traded for him, failed to develop him, failed to ID his supposed "mental weakness" and then handed him a big contract are now covering their ass. That's what you're hearing dude. I can't reveal the six individuals I spoke with by name (obviously) but I can tell you they came from both inside and OUTSIDE the organization. They were candid in that the Sox needed to get rid of him (along with Anderson and Grandal) And because some of them who made that type of comment about Moncada weren't directly in the organization they have no dog in the hurt, nor do they have an ass to cover. Edited June 7, 2023 by Lip Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 4 hours ago, nrockway said: As soon as I liked this comment, the Yankees broadcasters remarked on how great YoYo's defensive positioning is ? Maybe I don't know anything about baseball (I'm new to this board because I'm sick of the Bulls...I learned quickly the Sox are hardly different however), but wouldn't this team be a lot better if you just moved every infielder over a position and put Burger at 3B? If Moncada is such a great defender, why not play him at a premium defensive position like shortstop? Similarly, don't you hide TA's mediocre defense a bit by putting him at 2B? Rather see Burger every day than some combination of Alberto/Gonzalez/Andrus. Moncada moving to SS is roughly the same likelihood as an Ohtani signing this off season by the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBooneLoganEra Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 7 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: I can't reveal the six individuals I spoke with by name (obviously) but I can tell you they came from both inside and OUTSIDE the organization. They were candid in that the Sox needed to get rid of him (along with Anderson and Grandal) And because some of them who made that type of comment about Moncada weren't directly in the organization they have no dog in the hurt, nor do they have an ass to cover. I've heard the same regarding all three players you mentioned. Specifically Grandal. If they could've gotten rid of him already they would have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Give me the offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 17 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said: I agree on the attitude but it’s also TA and Robert, all three of these guys look like they hate playing baseball and would rather be somewhere else. Eloy’s got a much better attitude but if the Sox put him back at DH where he belongs he will probably start sulking too. It would be nice some day to have a team of players who just play hard, have fun and show an enthusiasm and energy on the field and in the dugout. The style of play that showed the fans and their teammates, they appreciate they are simply playing a kid's game for big money. That is why guys like Burger, Hendricks and Giolito are invaluable to the team....just for their energy, enthusiasm and effort. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 12 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: There is nothing wrong with Yoan being a 1.5-2 WAR player with upside for more. He’s absolutely overpaid, but that’s frankly irrelevant. He’s the best 3B option on the team. I'm not sure that's good enough for an everyday, set in concrete at one position, player anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Looks to me like Moncada has no more power. He might not hit another home run this year. Burger has power and Moncada has no power yet Moncada is in the starting lineup every day and Burger is on the bench most of the time. This White Sox manager is lucky that JR didn't hire me as the GM. I would have had a conversation with him and I would have told him to start Burger at third base until further notice. If he didn't do it I would have fired him. Its absolutely crazy to have Moncada starting every day while Burger is not playing. I can't remember anything like this with the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 20 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: At this point, give me the offense. Let's see what we have in Burger, we know what we have in Moncada. Turn him into a super sub, 3B, 2B and corner OF. f*** it. I'm over the "but he's such a great defender" (i was in this camp as well until now).. I'm with you on this move all day long!. It's just too bad our loser manager isn't seeing the logic of this move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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