Moncada 2023 Edition

[BigHurt3515]

Moncada should be hitting 7th at this point.

[pcq]

This is all news to me.

[Tomtom]

On 6/6/2023 at 12:00 PM, almagest said:

Moncada doesn't have a motivation problem. He has a back problem. That's why he's missed so much time, that's why he's lost power, that's why he grimaces when swinging, that's why his defense hasn't suffered.

Unfortunately, a back problem is way worse than a motivation problem, it's why he'll likely never reach his potential, and it's also why he's stuck here. No one is taking a guy making $20+ million/year with a bad back.

As I recall, Joe Crede's career ended because of a bad back!

[South Side Hit Men]

15 minutes ago, Tomtom said:

As I recall, Joe Crede's career ended because of a bad back!

Yes but Joe lived as a monk, swore off sex for his final three seasons in an attempt to maximize on-field performance.

Yoan Moncada made a music video, deserves no quarter.

[baseball_gal_aly]

I'm completely over anyone on the MLB roster improving. They are what they are at this point. 

Moncada got so lucky with the bouncy ball in 2019, as it propelled him to over $100M in career earnings. 

Even if he's out of baseball in a few years, he's set for life. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by baseballgalaly

[South Side Fireworks Man]

7 hours ago, WBWSF said:

Looks to me like Moncada has no more power. He might not hit another home run this year. Burger has power and Moncada has no power yet Moncada is in the starting lineup every day and Burger is on the bench most of the time.  This White Sox manager is lucky that JR didn't hire me as the GM.  I would have had a conversation with him and I would have told him to start Burger at third base until further notice. If he didn't do it I would have fired him. Its absolutely crazy to have Moncada starting every day while Burger is not playing. I can't remember anything like this with the team.

When slugging third baseman Bill Melton first came up to the Majors, his defense at 3B was terrible.  So bad that they even tried switching him to LF for a while.  Then a coach worked with him and made one little tweak to his defense.  

What they had him do was play a little farther back than usual, but as the pitcher went into his motion he would begin to creep forward so he would be in motion every time a ball was hit.  Bill became one of the better fielding third basemen in the league after this one small adjustment.   

Point is, Burger may not be a very good defensive third baseman right now, but he has shown signs of improvement and seems to be coachable.  If only the Sox had a good infield coach to work with him.  But he's not going to get better by sitting on the bench or mostly DHing when he does play.  At this point he needs to be playing everyday with a great percentage of the time at 3B.  You can always move Moncada back over to 3B for defense late in a close game.

That's how most teams would try to develop a young player.

[SoCalChiSox]

9 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

When slugging third baseman Bill Melton first came up to the Majors, his defense at 3B was terrible.  So bad that they even tried switching him to LF for a while.  Then a coach worked with him and made one little tweak to his defense.  

What they had him do was play a little farther back than usual, but as the pitcher went into his motion he would begin to creep forward so he would be in motion every time a ball was hit.  Bill became one of the better fielding third basemen in the league after this one small adjustment.   

Point is, Burger may not be a very good defensive third baseman right now, but he has shown signs of improvement and seems to be coachable.  If only the Sox had a good infield coach to work with him.  But he's not going to get better by sitting on the bench or mostly DHing when he does play.  At this point he needs to be playing everyday with a great percentage of the time at 3B.  You can always move Moncada back over to 3B for defense late in a close game.

That's how most teams would try to develop a young player.

Yeah.....I would put Burger back at 3B and Moncada at 2B. I realize Moncada wasn't comfortable at 2B earlier in his career but he's a better all around option there then the rest of the black hole at 2B and this is the only realistic way Jimenez and Burger can be in the lineup everyday particularly after Colas is back up. 

This team isn't going anywhere anyway so who cares if Burger is a butcher at 3B? Just let him play everyday, slug some HRs and it is what it is defensively. And if Moncada is unhappy he is moved to 2B, well too damn bad. Dude's gotta hit to keep his preferred spot.

[Stinky Stanky]

8 hours ago, WBWSF said:

Looks to me like Moncada has no more power. He might not hit another home run this year. Burger has power and Moncada has no power yet Moncada is in the starting lineup every day and Burger is on the bench most of the time.  This White Sox manager is lucky that JR didn't hire me as the GM.  I would have had a conversation with him and I would have told him to start Burger at third base until further notice. If he didn't do it I would have fired him. Its absolutely crazy to have Moncada starting every day while Burger is not playing. I can't remember anything like this with the team.

They're showcasing him for a trade. ?

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

When slugging third baseman Bill Melton first came up to the Majors, his defense at 3B was terrible.  So bad that they even tried switching him to LF for a while.  Then a coach worked with him and made one little tweak to his defense.  

What they had him do was play a little farther back than usual, but as the pitcher went into his motion he would begin to creep forward so he would be in motion every time a ball was hit.  Bill became one of the better fielding third basemen in the league after this one small adjustment.   

Point is, Burger may not be a very good defensive third baseman right now, but he has shown signs of improvement and seems to be coachable.  If only the Sox had a good infield coach to work with him.  But he's not going to get better by sitting on the bench or mostly DHing when he does play.  At this point he needs to be playing everyday with a great percentage of the time at 3B.  You can always move Moncada back over to 3B for defense late in a close game.

That's how most teams would try to develop a young player.

Robin Ventura and Alex Gordon both made tons of mistakes at 3B before ending up as Gold Glove caliber players at that spot as well as in LF through the assistance and mentoring of former Sox player Rusty Kuntz.

Burger has obviously done a better job THIS year before Moncada returned than any stretch of play in 2022.

 

It's the same kind of thinking that got the likes of Narvaez and Semien pushed out of the organization...either "we can't coach them up" or "they are what they are," but we know from numerous examples that players can make adjustments if they get full coaching support and just someone to believe in them, which sounds simplistic but has a lot of validity.

 

The Dodgers with Max Muncy having played pretty much every infield position but SS are the prime example of a player who profiles similarly to Burger from a physical standpoint.  He might never be a "plus" defender, but he can at least be pretty close to league average and his bat can carry his value at a position other than 1B/DH.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I'm not sure that's good enough for an everyday, set in concrete at one position, player anymore.

Me neither and frankly 2 WAR this season is quite a stretch , maybe 1.0 is also.

[TheBooneLoganEra]

3 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Yeah.....I would put Burger back at 3B and Moncada at 2B. I realize Moncada wasn't comfortable at 2B earlier in his career but he's a better all around option there then the rest of the black hole at 2B and this is the only realistic way Jimenez and Burger can be in the lineup everyday particularly after Colas is back up. 

This team isn't going anywhere anyway so who cares if Burger is a butcher at 3B? Just let him play everyday, slug some HRs and it is what it is defensively. And if Moncada is unhappy he is moved to 2B, well too damn bad. Dude's gotta hit to keep his preferred spot.

This all the way. 

[Lip Man 1]

5 hours ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

When slugging third baseman Bill Melton first came up to the Majors, his defense at 3B was terrible.  So bad that they even tried switching him to LF for a while.  Then a coach worked with him and made one little tweak to his defense.  

What they had him do was play a little farther back than usual, but as the pitcher went into his motion he would begin to creep forward so he would be in motion every time a ball was hit.  Bill became one of the better fielding third basemen in the league after this one small adjustment.   

Point is, Burger may not be a very good defensive third baseman right now, but he has shown signs of improvement and seems to be coachable.  If only the Sox had a good infield coach to work with him.  But he's not going to get better by sitting on the bench or mostly DHing when he does play.  At this point he needs to be playing everyday with a great percentage of the time at 3B.  You can always move Moncada back over to 3B for defense late in a close game.

That's how most teams would try to develop a young player.

Melton was so bad he had his nose broken in Baltimore when he lost a pop up in the lights and it nailed him square in the face. After working his ass off one season he actually had a higher fielding percentage than Brooks Robinson.

[TaylorStSox]

On 6/6/2023 at 2:46 PM, caulfield12 said:

By that measure, Tatis is 7.8 fWAR/162, but the most dangerous contract in the history of the sport according to some. 

The problem is Moncada can't consistently stay on the field now and so much of that fWAR was driven by 2019's offense and 2021's defense.  If I'm generous and extrapolate his averages for 2020 and 2023 out to 162, he's at basically 125 games played per season...which means the reality is he's much closer to a 2.6 player after six seasons. And most would take the under moving forward. 

At any rate, nobody would value Buxton on the open market today at 4.9 fWAR for 162, Mike Trout 9.3 and Acuna Jr. 6.0, for example, by that same metric. 

Acuna...maybe, but he's the best player in the game today in the absolute prime of his career and 100% over his knee injury now. 

Good thing the Sox haven't committed $350M to Yoan Moncada, good thing he's never had a season ending shoulder injury, and good thing he hasn't been suspended 80 games for taking PED's. Your hard on for some of these players is beyond creepy. I hope you don't actually try to interact with these players because the obsession is as weird as your creeping in China. 

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Good thing the Sox haven't committed $350M to Yoan Moncada, good thing he's never had a season ending shoulder injury, and good thing he hasn't been suspended 80 games for taking PED's. Your hard on for some of these players is beyond creepy. I hope you don't actually try to interact with these players because the obsession is as weird as your creeping in China. 

LoL.

My school has had between 15-20 students for Oxford/Cambridge accepted for each of the last two years, and roughly twenty for the Top 20 US universities, as ranked by US News & World Report.  The average IB score is between 38 and 39.

But thanks for condemning every single person who works outside the US, lol.

You do realize that not EVERYONE is a "digit nomad" working in Thailand, Indonesia/Bali or the Philippines, right?

Try to come up with a more inventive attack at least.  And stay off Yahoo News and those ChatGPT-generated articles about traveling or living abroad.

 

 

I mean, it would be really, absolutely terrible if the White Sox had a nearly Gold Glove caliber RF (OAA 95th percentile, jumps 98 percentile, arm strength 99th percentile) on pace for 37 homers despite missing the first 20 games of the season at a salary of only $7 million, lol...

 

 

 

[greg775]

Moncada's bat has been abysmal. Those of us who care about batting average stat laugh at the fact he's had only 1 year with a BA over .263. horrid. His RBI totals for those of us who follow RBI are not gawd awful, but pedestrian for sure. He's hit 34 homers over the past four seasons. Basically he is stealing money as a hitter.

However he's a dandy fielder.

I'd try my hardest to get rid of him. Sox should try to get 2-3 warm pitching bodies for him if anybody's willing to pay him.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

9 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Melton was so bad he had his nose broken in Baltimore when he lost a pop up in the lights and it nailed him square in the face. After working his ass off one season he actually had a higher fielding percentage than Brooks Robinson.

I remember that.  I was watching the game on TV with my Dad and he would bring up that play for years to come.

[CentralChamps21]

2023 edition of lots of guys falling short. 2023 OPS compared to career:

Anderson -132

Benintendi -90

Jimenez -86

Moncada -77

Grandal -72

Vaughn -21

Robert +9

[South Side Hit Men]

Funny how the more recent best players in White Sox history are trashed on the way out by the organization, and also a vocal minority of the fan base.

Top 5 Greatest White Sox Position Players of All Time (White Sox fWAR):

1. 72.6 / 2,422 G Luke Appling SS
2. 68.1 / 1,959 G Frank Thomas DH
3. 64.2 / 1,670 G Eddie Collins 2B
4. 43.8 / 2,115 G Nellie Fox 2B
5. 41.8 / 1,373 G Minnie Minoso LF

Top 5 White Sox Position Players Reinsdorf Era (White Sox fWAR):

1. 68.1 / 1,959 G Frank Thomas DH (2nd All Time)
2. 39.2 / 1,254 G Robin Ventura 3B (6th All Time)
3. 30.1 / 1,421 G Carlton Fisk C (11th All Time)
4. 27.4 / 1,270 G Jose Abreu 1B (12th All Time)
5. 24.6 / 2,268 G Paul Konerko 1B (14th All Time)

Top 5 White Sox Position Players Rick Hahn Era (White Sox fWAR):

(Players higher with less games played)

1. 27.4 / 1,270 G Jose Abreu 1B (12th All Time) - (3 R. Ventura, F. Jones, G. Davis)
2. 19.3 / 815 G Tim Anderson SS (27th All Time) - (3 J. Jackson, C. Lemon, H. Felsch)
3. 14.3 / 491 G Adam Eaton CF (42nd All Time) - (1 Dick Allen)
4. 14.2 / 667 G Yoan Moncada 3B (43rd All Time) - (6 J. Jackson, Z. Bonura, D. Allen, D. Burford, T. Raines, A. Eaton)
5. 8.6 / 281 G Luis Robert CF (73rd All Time) - (Zero)

[coldwatersox]

I am fatigued reading about Moncada. He was grossly overpaid up front and due to the effects of human nature he lacks motivation and desire --- at least that is my interpretation of his rather casual performance on the field. As most of us posting here, I do not know Moncada on a personal level and my reading of his personality might be unfair and inaccurate. But, what I see on the ball field is a rather mediocre player who has had only a single season (2019) of impressive statistics. My preference would be to package him in a trade with possibly Vaughn or Roberts in return for multiple AAA level pitching prospects. Burger goes to third base on a daily basis, Sheets plays first if Vaugn is traded, and Colas plays centerfield if Roberts is traded. 

[Johno]

it’s getting to a point where i absolutely know that moncado will NOT get a hit when he’s up.   maybe a demotion to Triple A needs to happen 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Johno said:

it’s getting to a point where i absolutely know that moncado will NOT get a hit when he’s up.   maybe a demotion to Triple A needs to happen 

Ummm... 

[TaylorStSox]

19 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

LoL.

My school has had between 15-20 students for Oxford/Cambridge accepted for each of the last two years, and roughly twenty for the Top 20 US universities, as ranked by US News & World Report.  The average IB score is between 38 and 39.

But thanks for condemning every single person who works outside the US, lol.

You do realize that not EVERYONE is a "digit nomad" working in Thailand, Indonesia/Bali or the Philippines, right?

Try to come up with a more inventive attack at least.  And stay off Yahoo News and those ChatGPT-generated articles about traveling or living abroad.

 

 

I mean, it would be really, absolutely terrible if the White Sox had a nearly Gold Glove caliber RF (OAA 95th percentile, jumps 98 percentile, arm strength 99th percentile) on pace for 37 homers despite missing the first 20 games of the season at a salary of only $7 million, lol...

 

 

 

I apologize for making it personal. I was out of line. However, I saw that Lip liked your post and it's making me kind of regret apologizing. 

[caulfield12]

44 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I apologize for making it personal. I was out of line. However, I saw that Lip liked your post and it's making me kind of regret apologizing. 

LoL.  Okay, fair enough.

Well, everyone over 50 years old needs to stick together at SoxTalk...we don't mesh well with Millennials/Gen Z.

 

It's one of the reasons (generation gap)  I'm shocked Benetti is so well-liked by younger posters, but, then again, ANYTHING is better than either listening to Gordon Beckham or Connor McKnight's chipper/peppy "just happy to be here" shtick.

[MikeKreevich]

Am I the only one who thinks that Moncada is not very bright?

As for Binetti, I long for the day he moves on to a National sports network.

[Rusty_Kuntz]

On 6/7/2023 at 8:55 PM, caulfield12 said:

Robin Ventura and Alex Gordon both made tons of mistakes at 3B before ending up as Gold Glove caliber players at that spot as well as in LF through the assistance and mentoring of former Sox player Rusty Kuntz.

Burger has obviously done a better job THIS year before Moncada returned than any stretch of play in 2022.

 

It's the same kind of thinking that got the likes of Narvaez and Semien pushed out of the organization...either "we can't coach them up" or "they are what they are," but we know from numerous examples that players can make adjustments if they get full coaching support and just someone to believe in them, which sounds simplistic but has a lot of validity.

 

The Dodgers with Max Muncy having played pretty much every infield position but SS are the prime example of a player who profiles similarly to Burger from a physical standpoint.  He might never be a "plus" defender, but he can at least be pretty close to league average and his bat can carry his value at a position other than 1B/DH.

Thanks for the shout out!