Texsox Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 How many ways can we quantify that we are a bottom three franchise in baseball history? Toss in financial resources available and we're the worst. Absolute worst. We sucked for decades before modern analytics, we suck after. We flunked the eye test, now we can prove mathematically we are horrible. We flunked before free agency, we fail afterwards. We sucked before the DH, we suck after. Name any era in baseball and we sucked. Deadball? Sucked Steroids? Sucked We have a bottom farm system. We have employees at every level that couldn't find baseball jobs anywhere else. We take great players after their prime to watch them fail while collecting big checks. We take good players and make them bad. We take bad players and make them worst. We suck potential out of every draft pick except the lucky few who are able to leave quickly. Our stadium was a joke when first build with a death defying upper deck. Our owner openly shows distain for his players and fans. Everything about this franchise is an embarrassment to baseball, the city of Chicago, and America. Ok, the last part was hyperbole. No other major city has such a horrible franchise in any sport. I'm trying to figure out why I ever made fun of being a Cub fan. /Rant 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 (edited) Without a doubt the Chicago White Sox are a horrible and dysfunctional franchise especially for a team in a Major Market. Reinsdorf is the worst owner in professional sports and runs the White Sox like a small market team. In his 42 years as owner he has continuously alienated White Sox fans, from basically forcing Harry Caray to jump to the Cubs, to hiring Hawk as GM, to threatening a move to Florida to building a monstrosity of a stadium to the 1994 strike to the White Flag trade to the Ventura and TLR hirings and so many more too numerous to mention. We have people in positions with the franchise that aren’t doing the job and probably not even qualified as Reinsdorf never hires the best people, look at the track record with managers and GMs, look who is running the minor league system, Chris Getz for crying out loud. Look at the free agent signings through the years. I’m 77 and guessing we will never see another World Championship with Reinsdorf around and the more I think about it, 2005 was probably a fluke. I feel it in my old bones and no one should be shocked that the last stab in the back for White Sox fans will be that this colossal jerk sells the team to someone from another city. Edited June 11, 2023 by The Mighty Mite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBatadatz Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 Three-legged-stool concept. If any leg is weak, the stool tips over. Listed in the order of JR importance. - Leg 1: Financial Stability of Franchise: Check and double check. All investors around the table could NOT be happier. No fans, no problem...no rent. Strongest leg. - Leg 2: Competitiveness of franchise: Weak leg. Huge fail. But never mind....see Leg 1. - Leg 3: Fan satisfaction. Weakest leg. One of JR's first moves was to take the Sox off the air and went to magic-box-pay-to-watch. No big deal now, but the Sox lost a full generation of new fans, while alienating the entire fan base. So we have Leg 1 holding everything else up. To us fans, it's just a crooked mess. JR barely knows or cares that we exist, and that's been apparent for 40 plus years. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 The White Sox are 125 games under .500 during the Hahn Era, which will continue in some capacity as long as Jerry does. The White Sox are in danger of dropping below .500 (currently 94 games over .500) if Jerry lives into the 2030s. Cell Jerry Cell!!! MLB All Time Standings: (Place in standings among the Original 16 MLB Franchises in 1901) 9. .503 Atlanta +119 (9) 10. .503 Detroit + 95 (10) 11. .502 Chicago A. L. + 94 (11) 12. .501 Houston +20 13. .501 Pittsburgh +43 (12) 14. .498 Toronto -23 15. .498 Los Angeles A. L. -38 16. .488 Tampa Bay -85 17. .487 Oakland -478 (13) 22. .481 Minnesota -709 (14) 26. .473 Baltimore -1,008 (15) 27. .473 Philadelphia -1,167 (16) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 Our main problem is we won't sign young talent to large deals. Those guys can carry an average team all the way. We want to keep signing aging vets and hoping they can turn back the clock. That plan will continue to fail. And we will continue to be left behind by the big boys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Texsox said: How many ways can we quantify that we are a bottom three franchise in baseball history? Toss in financial resources available and we're the worst. Absolute worst. We sucked for decades before modern analytics, we suck after. We flunked the eye test, now we can prove mathematically we are horrible. We flunked before free agency, we fail afterwards. We sucked before the DH, we suck after. Name any era in baseball and we sucked. Deadball? Sucked Steroids? Sucked We have a bottom farm system. We have employees at every level that couldn't find baseball jobs anywhere else. We take great players after their prime to watch them fail while collecting big checks. We take good players and make them bad. We take bad players and make them worst. We suck potential out of every draft pick except the lucky few who are able to leave quickly. Our stadium was a joke when first build with a death defying upper deck. Our owner openly shows distain for his players and fans. Everything about this franchise is an embarrassment to baseball, the city of Chicago, and America. Ok, the last part was hyperbole. No other major city has such a horrible franchise in any sport. I'm trying to figure out why I ever made fun of being a Cub fan. /Rant People forget that from 1951 through 1967 the Sox were one of the best organizations in baseball. 17 straight winning seasons which if memory serves is the fourth longest streak in MLB history, seven years with 90+ wins, consistent pennant contender, got the lions share of media attention in Chicago and had something like 86 All-Star members during that time period. It was the "Golden Age." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 The Rays are just incredible. I don’t know how you can look at whatever the heck they’re doing and think you shouldn’t change your operation immediately. This could be a world class franchise. Best name and logo out there 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 14 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: People forget that from 1951 through 1967 the Sox were one of the best organizations in baseball. 17 straight winning seasons which if memory serves is the fourth longest streak in MLB history, seven years with 90+ wins, consistent pennant contender, got the lions share of media attention in Chicago and had something like 86 All-Star members during that time period. It was the "Golden Age." Those were wonderful years including an AL pennant in 1959 and growing up with those teams make it so much harder to be a fan of the White Sox since then. I never experienced a losing season until I was 22 years old. Poor ownership has plagued the franchise down through the years, I don’t know how cheap the Old Roman was but the Black Sox scandal hurt the franchise for 30 years. Chuck Comiskey did a great job in the 50s especially with the hiring of Frank Lane, Paul Richards and Al Lopez, the Sox had a great farm system in those years and made some great trades also. Bill Veeck set the Sox back a bit trading away some very good young players in 1960. Arthur Allyn was owner when the Sox put together their 3 best consecutive seasons in history winning 94, 98 and 95 games in the mid 60s. After the 67 near miss with a pennant things went downhill drastically and Arthur sold the club to his brother John who just didn’t have the money to compete even though Dick Allen and company came close to a division title in 1972. Bill Veeck came back again in 1976 but just could not compete especially with free agency. Veeck sold to Reinsdorf and Einhorn in 1981 and when they brought Carlton Fisk aboard and then won the division in 1983 most Sox fans thought that the franchise was on its way to becoming a premier franchise for decades to come, we couldn’t have been more wrong. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 You only need two names on list of why the White Sox are one of the worst teams in baseball since 1981, when Jerry Reinsdorf bought the White Sox. 1. Jerry Reinsdorf - owner from 1981-2023 - 43 seasons 2. Rick Hahn - GM - 2013- 2023 - 11 seasons In the 43 seasons Jerry has been owner, here are his accomplishments: - Won the division 6 times and one wild card playoff appearance for a grand total of 7 playoffs in 42 years. Note: The Wild Card in 2020 was only due to the pandemic shortened season and that one year MLB took an extra wild card team, which was of course was the White Sox. - His teams never got past the first round round of the playoffs other than 2005, when they won the World Series. In the 10 seasons Rick Hahn has been the GM here are his accomplishments: - Two playoff appearances with first round losses in both playoffs. - W-L record - W 722- L 848 - Horrible farm system which was ranked 29th in 2022 and 26th in 2023. - Complete shameful debacle of the 2016 rebuild. - Horrible track record of drafting, bombed FA signings and constant botched/fleeced trades, Until these two POS clowns are gone, this team will always be a mediocre and dysfunctional embarrassment to the city, fans and baseball in general. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 How many ways can we find away for our top prospects to underperform? You would have thought between Moncado, Jimenez, Roberts, Madrigal and Vaughn one of them would have been a true superstar. at this point, it’s not even close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 I'm going with the New York Knicks as an even worse franchise. Bigger market (can't understate the low appeal of the midwest for millionaire 20-somethings), worse record, fewer championships, easier sport to win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 15 minutes ago, nrockway said: I'm going with the New York Knicks as an even worse franchise. Bigger market (can't understate the low appeal of the midwest for millionaire 20-somethings), worse record, fewer championships, easier sport to win. Yes, there are examples in and outside of baseball even more egregious than a lock Top 10 all time worst Jerry Reinsdorf. Would say John Fischer, James Dolan, Terry Pegula and Rocky Wirtz are in the current four scummiest owners. Today: MLB: Peter Angelos, Bob Castellini, John Fischer, Jerry Reinsdorf, John Stanton. NBA: James Dolan, Dan Gilbert NFL: Mike Bidwell, Mike Brown, Shelia Ford Hamp, Jimmy Haslam, Woody Johnson, McCaskey Family, Terry Pegula NHL: Terry Pegula, Rocky Wirtz Yesterday MLB: Jeff Loria, Marge Schott, Bud Selig, Wilpon Family NBA: Robert Sarver, Ted Stepien, Donald Sterling NFL: Al Davis, Bob Irsay, Art Modell, Jerry Richardson, Dan Snyder NHL: Harold Ballard, Bill Wirtz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: Yes, there are examples in and outside of baseball even more egregious than a lock Top 10 all time worst Jerry Reinsdorf. Would say John Fischer, James Dolan, Terry Pegula and Rocky Wirtz are in the current four scummiest owners. Today: MLB: Peter Angelos, Bob Castellini, John Fischer, Jerry Reinsdorf, John Stanton. NBA: James Dolan, Dan Gilbert NFL: Mike Bidwell, Mike Brown, Shelia Ford Hamp, Jimmy Haslam, Woody Johnson, McCaskey Family, Terry Pegula NHL: Terry Pegula, Rocky Wirtz Yesterday MLB: Jeff Loria, Marge Schott, Bud Selig, Wilpon Family NBA: Robert Sarver, Ted Stepien, Donald Sterling NFL: Al Davis, Bob Irsay, Art Modell, Jerry Richardson, Dan Snyder NHL: Harold Ballard, Bill Wirtz. As far as "bad owners" my definition only involves activities done or not done on the field impacting the team they own. Rocky Wirtz was wrong for example in the cover-up situation off the ice, but on the ice, he won three championships. Same thing with Al Davis, the man put winning above everything else and the Raiders record under his watch for a very long time was among the best in the NFL, plus three titles if I remember right. Hard to say he didn't give the fan base a best effort at winning. Edited June 11, 2023 by Lip Man 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 8 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: People forget that from 1951 through 1967 the Sox were one of the best organizations in baseball. 17 straight winning seasons which if memory serves is the fourth longest streak in MLB history, seven years with 90+ wins, consistent pennant contender, got the lions share of media attention in Chicago and had something like 86 All-Star members during that time period. It was the "Golden Age." Hard to remember something from well before you were born. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 37 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said: Hard to remember something from well before you were born. Well I know stuff about the Sox from before I was born in 1955. I had the desire to learn it. It's called "history." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 7 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said: You only need two names on list of why the White Sox are one of the worst teams in baseball since 1981, when Jerry Reinsdorf bought the White Sox. 1. Jerry Reinsdorf - owner from 1981-2023 - 43 seasons 2. Rick Hahn - GM - 2013- 2023 - 11 seasons In the 43 seasons Jerry has been owner, here are his accomplishments: - Won the division 6 times and one wild card playoff appearance for a grand total of 7 playoffs in 42 years. Note: The Wild Card in 2020 was only due to the pandemic shortened season and that one year MLB took an extra wild card team, which was of course was the White Sox. - His teams never got past the first round round of the playoffs other than 2005, when they won the World Series. In the 10 seasons Rick Hahn has been the GM here are his accomplishments: - Two playoff appearances with first round losses in both playoffs. - W-L record - W 722- L 848 - Horrible farm system which was ranked 29th in 2022 and 26th in 2023. - Complete shameful debacle of the 2016 rebuild. - Horrible track record of drafting, bombed FA signings and constant botched/fleeced trades, Until these two POS clowns are gone, this team will always be a mediocre and dysfunctional embarrassment to the city, fans and baseball in general. Brooks needs to have a Sox face bag night. Imagine a team designed mask so you could disguise your loyalties. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpton Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 12 hours ago, SonofaRoache said: Our main problem is we won't sign young talent to large deals. Those guys can carry an average team all the way. We want to keep signing aging vets and hoping they can turn back the clock. That plan will continue to fail. And we will continue to be left behind by the big boys. To be fair they did do that with Moncada and look what that got them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 My rant goes back to 2011. Ozzie Guillen leaves the Sox in a PR nightmare. It was time for the team turn a page as they could no longer rest on the laurels of winning the 2005 World Series. They had a losing season in 2011, the third since 2005. So, the hiring of a manager was important. And what do they do? They hand the job over to Robin Ventura, a guy with no experience as a manager or coach. He roamed the dugout looking like he wanted to be somewhere else. In the 12 years since, the Sox have won one division title and two playoff games. For some reason, with little thought, they had handed the manager's job to Tony LaRussa. And now the rebuild is faltering. Maybe they can still win a weak division, but it is hard to be optimistic. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 4 hours ago, Chimpton said: To be fair they did do that with Moncada and look what that got them! But the veteran deals (Grandal/Keuchel/Lynn/Hendriks/Benintendi, etc.) basically were just as bad if not worse than Robert/Anderson/Moncada/Eloy. None of them have turned out well, except for Luis Robert at least not "costing" the Sox money or not paying off the $$$/fWAR return on investment. Someone will argue for Moncada (still), but it's hard to spin him as anything but a disappointment as the former #1 prospects in the entire sport. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpton Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: But the veteran deals (Grandal/Keuchel/Lynn/Hendriks/Benintendi, etc.) basically were just as bad if not worse than Robert/Anderson/Moncada/Eloy. None of them have turned out well, except for Luis Robert at least not "costing" the Sox money or not paying off the $$$/fWAR return on investment. Someone will argue for Moncada (still), but it's hard to spin him as anything but a disappointment as the former #1 prospects in the entire sport. Agreed, basically Hahn is not very good, whether it is with signing veterans or young players 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 11 hours ago, Big Hurtin said: Hard to remember something from well before you were born. Youngins. On the bright side in a few decades you could be explaining this s%*# to a grandchild who asked who were the White Sox and why did they go away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 11 hours ago, Chimpton said: To be fair they did do that with Moncada and look what that got them! I mean young established talent. Yoan was a prospect that hadn't developed when we brought him in. We signed him early trying to get a steal of a deal, but he hasn't reached his offensive potential or come close yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 yawn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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