Sox vs Marlins 1:10

[The Grinder]

Didn't we have a Bob James as a reliever in the 1986 team

[tray]

The close loss is just baseball, just like the win that  the Sox recently got in NY when Rizzo grounded into a DP (Thanks Cubs!) You can't win 'em all. Sox are not out of contention for the Division on June 11. That one hurt, but let's relax a bit,

IMO, they Sox need to insure that they have a solid top of rotation (a One and two) heading into the next few years, so I would love for them to make Cease and Gio the pillars of it. I am guessing here but signing them up could very well prove to be a better bet than the Mets made. It just is not that easy to sign two pitchers of their caliber in their prime without laying out huge contracts.

[Lip Man 1]

2 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

Didn't we have a Bob James as a reliever in the 1986 team

"Bullet" Bob James' best season was in 1985. He was another brilliant "minor" trade pick up from Montreal for Vance Law by Roland Hemond. In 1985 he had 32 saves, a 2.13 ERA and struck out 88 guys in 110 innings pitched.

He also was indirectly one of the reasons the Sox got "Hawk" Harrelson as GM in 1986.

This excerpt from my chapter on that season for Dr. Fletcher's newest book that comes out next year on the 1990 club and the new stadium:

"The Sox were beating the Orioles 6-3 in the ninth inning on July 11 with “Bullet” Bob James on the mound working his second inning. James was another “minor” deal executed by Hemond that paid off in a big way as he was having a career season. Hemond got him from Montreal for Vance Law in December 1984. James would finish with 32 saves, a 2.13 ERA and 88 strike outs in 110 innings pitched.  

But on this day, after fielding a ground ball off the bat of Alan Wiggins, James had to leave with what turned out to be a knee injury that he really never recovered from and saw his career end in 1987.

LaRussa called on Mike Stanton, a journeyman pitcher picked up by the Sox on waivers from Seattle in late June, to close things out.

Stanton did not get a single hitter out, facing four men… giving up a single, walk, single and a three-run game winning home run from Fred Lynn. Baltimore scored four runs after two outs and won the game 7-6.

Up in the TV booth both Drysdale and Harrelson were commenting on the fact that if Stanton was the “best” the Sox could do there were issues that had to be addressed.

Both Reinsdorf and Einhorn were thinking along the same lines for several months.

Towards the end of the season Harrelson was talking with both men when Reinsdorf asked him what he thought about the state of the organization. “I think there are a lot of holes” was the reply.

Reinsdorf then asked what they were and Harrelson said, “Do you want me to write down what I think is the state of the organization?”

That is exactly what the owners wanted and Einhorn in particular said that was a real selling point telling the Chicago Tribune, “Of all the people we spoke to, he was the only one who submitted a plan and explained how it could be implemented.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tray]

TA is not a bad guy. A couple of missed plays might indicate that he is distracted by some personal issues or lost focus for some reason we don't understand. These players are human beings for C-sakes. He was a batting champion and can be an elitre defensive shortstop with his range and his arm. Let's cut him some slack.  When TA starts hitting and Eloy returns this line-up could be what we thought it could be.

[wegner]

8 minutes ago, tray said:

The close loss is just baseball, just like the win that  the Sox recently got in NY when Rizzo grounded into a DP (Thanks Cubs!) You can't win 'em all. Sox are not out of contention for the Division on June 11. That one hurt, but let's relax a bit,

IMO, they Sox need to insure that they have a solid top of rotation (a One and two) heading into the next few years, so I would love for them to make Cease and Gio the pillars of it. I am guessing here but signing them up could very well prove to be a better bet than the Mets made. It just is not that easy to sign two pitchers of their caliber in their prime without laying out huge contracts.

Unfortunately I believe their chance of signing a Giolito who is pitching well is very close to 0%

[Lip Man 1]

Just now, tray said:

TA is not a bad guy. A couple of missed plays might indicate that he is distracted by some personal issues or lost focus for some reason we don't understand. These players are human beings for C-sakes. He was a batting champion and can be an elitre defensive shortstop with his range and his arm. Let's cut him some slack.  When TA starts hitting and Eloy returns this line-up could be what we thought it could be.

If is the biggest little word in the English dictionary. TA's numbers for the last few seasons, not just the past few weeks or months indicates something is clearly wrong with him.

Regarding Eloy, he like TA, Grandal, Moncada et al can't go a single solitary month with having a serious injury. Again the facts from the past few years indicate this is an on-going issue that for whatever reason the White Sox can't solve.

Color my skeptical they will put anything together before the trade deadline. And then if Rick is smart he'll cut bait and admit his rebuild is broken and flushed down the toilet.

[Lip Man 1]

1 minute ago, wegner said:

Unfortunately I believe their chance of signing a Giolito who is pitching well is very close to 0%

Agreed. That ship sailed when the organization fought him over a 50-thousand dollar difference this past winter in arbitration. His comments and his agents comments after they did that ended that dream. 

[Lip Man 1]

12 minutes ago, tray said:

The close loss is just baseball, just like the win that  the Sox recently got in NY when Rizzo grounded into a DP (Thanks Cubs!) You can't win 'em all. Sox are not out of contention for the Division on June 11. That one hurt, but let's relax a bit,

IMO, they Sox need to insure that they have a solid top of rotation (a One and two) heading into the next few years, so I would love for them to make Cease and Gio the pillars of it. I am guessing here but signing them up could very well prove to be a better bet than the Mets made. It just is not that easy to sign two pitchers of their caliber in their prime without laying out huge contracts.

JR does not give out eight and nine figure long term deals to pitchers.

This just isn't happening.

And I think Cease's agent is Scott Boras. I could be wrong on that but if he is, and if Cease does pitch well the next two years, he's hitting the free agent market and will not be signing an extension with the Sox.

What could change that?

Of course if new ownership is in place anything can happen.  

[Stinky Stanky]

36 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

"Bullet" Bob James' best season was in 1985. He was another brilliant "minor" trade pick up from Montreal for Vance Law by Roland Hemond. In 1985 he had 32 saves, a 2.13 ERA and struck out 88 guys in 110 innings pitched.

He also was indirectly one of the reasons the Sox got "Hawk" Harrelson as GM in 1986.

This excerpt from my chapter on that season for Dr. Fletcher's newest book that comes out next year on the 1990 club and the new stadium:

"The Sox were beating the Orioles 6-3 in the ninth inning on July 11 with “Bullet” Bob James on the mound working his second inning. James was another “minor” deal executed by Hemond that paid off in a big way as he was having a career season. Hemond got him from Montreal for Vance Law in December 1984. James would finish with 32 saves, a 2.13 ERA and 88 strike outs in 110 innings pitched.  

But on this day, after fielding a ground ball off the bat of Alan Wiggins, James had to leave with what turned out to be a knee injury that he really never recovered from and saw his career end in 1987.

LaRussa called on Mike Stanton, a journeyman pitcher picked up by the Sox on waivers from Seattle in late June, to close things out.

Stanton did not get a single hitter out, facing four men… giving up a single, walk, single and a three-run game winning home run from Fred Lynn. Baltimore scored four runs after two outs and won the game 7-6.

Up in the TV booth both Drysdale and Harrelson were commenting on the fact that if Stanton was the “best” the Sox could do there were issues that had to be addressed.

Both Reinsdorf and Einhorn were thinking along the same lines for several months.

Towards the end of the season Harrelson was talking with both men when Reinsdorf asked him what he thought about the state of the organization. “I think there are a lot of holes” was the reply.

Reinsdorf then asked what they were and Harrelson said, “Do you want me to write down what I think is the state of the organization?”

That is exactly what the owners wanted and Einhorn in particular said that was a real selling point telling the Chicago Tribune, “Of all the people we spoke to, he was the only one who submitted a plan and explained how it could be implemented.”

 

James' weight was the cause of his breakdowns.  Ate himself out of a career.  But he was a find before the dinner table caught up with him, you're absolutely right.  And thanks for setting me straight on Hawk.  I always thought that he initiated the contact with the owners and you point out that it was the owners asking him first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Stinky Stanky

[Stinky Stanky]

5 hours ago, wegner said:

Graveman was no doubt getting hit hard with the 1st 2 hitters....maybe have someone up earlier??

I looked at the roster and couldn't find Someone.  Graveman is his best guy and has been unhittable for a month.  Middleton has been close.  Who did you have in mind?  We beat their best guy Friday.  It's baseball.  You gotta love the game.

[MEANS]

5 hours ago, The Beast said:

And yet, posters and White Sox fans keep coming back even if we are “finished” with this team.

Been on this board for close to 20 years…who cares

[Dan Pasqua]

Did we ever hear why TA didn't pinch hit?  I assume it was a complete day off but c'mon man if he could've redeemed himself that would've been a spot to do so.  In regards to yesterday's error, the runner moving from 2nd to 3rd did a job of distractingy TA when crossing in front of him.  

[Lip Man 1]

2 minutes ago, Dan Pasqua said:

Did we ever hear why TA didn't pinch hit?  I assume it was a complete day off but c'mon man if he could've redeemed himself that would've been a spot to do so.  In regards to yesterday's error, the runner moving from 2nd to 3rd did a job of distractingy TA when crossing in front of him.  

Grifol said it was his normal scheduled day off so my guess is he was sticking to that script regardless of circumstances.  

[wegner]

9 hours ago, Stinky Stanky said:

I looked at the roster and couldn't find Someone.  Graveman is his best guy and has been unhittable for a month.  Middleton has been close.  Who did you have in mind?  We beat their best guy Friday.  It's baseball.  You gotta love the game.

Actually I don't have to love the last 2 days. Every pitcher has bad days. Graveman did not have his best stuff today. That "someone" today must've been Bummer since he came in after Graveman gave up the lead.

Now if you are arguing that Graveman is your closer and you go with him no matter what, like you would with Liam then fine. I don't agree, but ok.

Edited June 12, 2023 by wegner

[wegner]

3 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Grifol said it was his normal scheduled day off so my guess is he was sticking to that script regardless of circumstances.  

It was also a scheduled off day when he put in Tim late in a game that went into extras earlier this season so he's not consistent with that. My guess is that he was "rewarding" Elvis for his great play in the top of the 9th.

[Harry Chappas]

Totally forgot about Eloy.....he was abetter option in the 9th 

[Lip Man 1]

27 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

Totally forgot about Eloy.....he was abetter option in the 9th 

He's "unavailable" yet again according to Grifol for another few days.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, tray said:

TA is not a bad guy. A couple of missed plays might indicate that he is distracted by some personal issues or lost focus for some reason we don't understand. These players are human beings for C-sakes. He was a batting champion and can be an elitre defensive shortstop with his range and his arm. Let's cut him some slack.  When TA starts hitting and Eloy returns this line-up could be what we thought it could be.

Stats on Anderson for the last year (6/9/22 through 6/9/23) are sobering:

85 games played, 1 home run, 16 RBI's, 12 ground into double plays, .256 batting average, .293 on base percentage, .301 slugging percentage, .594 OPS.

The dropoff has been dramatic. 

I don't take credit for these stats by the way saw them posted elsewhere. 

Like I said something is clearly wrong and I personally think it goes beyond injuries. 

 

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, pcq said:

Bobby Jones was Nate Jones twin cousin. They had the same father but their mothers were sisters. 

Then there would have had to be international bonus money tied to him...

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Dan Pasqua said:

Did we ever hear why TA didn't pinch hit?  I assume it was a complete day off but c'mon man if he could've redeemed himself that would've been a spot to do so.  In regards to yesterday's error, the runner moving from 2nd to 3rd did a job of momentarily distracting TA when crossing in front of him.  

Jason?

Even Anderson simply said it was a faster baserunner and he was thinking too far ahead and rushed the throw...probably flashbacks to similar play/s or muscle memory.

He did have ONE that worked out well this year, but at least 3-4 that turned into absolute disasters.

[greg775]

Uh oh. We lose again in heartbreaking fashion after the Saturday game. Will the mentally weak Sox drop another 10 in a row after blowing that game Sat?

[caulfield12]

11 hours ago, tray said:

The close loss is just baseball, just like the win that  the Sox recently got in NY when Rizzo grounded into a DP (Thanks Cubs!) You can't win 'em all. Sox are not out of contention for the Division on June 11. That one hurt, but let's relax a bit,

IMO, they Sox need to insure that they have a solid top of rotation (a One and two) heading into the next few years, so I would love for them to make Cease and Gio the pillars of it. I am guessing here but signing them up could very well prove to be a better bet than the Mets made. It just is not that easy to sign two pitchers of their caliber in their prime without laying out huge contracts.

Giolito has already passed the point of no return in terms of staying. 

Cease and Kopech are the only remote possibilities left. 

They probably aren't even willing to go be Lucas half of $131 million... let alone $100. 

Jose Berrios was going to be in the same free class before the Twins gave up on signing him to prioritze Buxton and then Correa. 

 

Jose Berrios signed a 7 year / $131,000,000 contract with the Toronto Blue Jays, including a $5,000,000 signing bonus, $131,000,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $18,714,286. In 2023, Berrios will earn a base salary of $15,000,000, while carrying a total salary of $15,714,285.