Harry Chappas Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 I'd start a post telling to fire the hitting coach but I don't even know who that is and this collection of players are not being coached out of this. This team has zero interest in playing for him and while Hahn hired him, and hopefully ends up getting both fired, Grifiol is in way over his head. The lineup and talk to Jerry comment is rather telling in that he did not say Hahn....also tells me KW is nowhere to be seen. Over the weekend he stated there was no plan for Monday's starting pitcher and that Anderson is the leadoff man....until the next day. This team is 11 games under, maybe 12 I don't really know but the time for urgency is now. As a professional franchise they need to look at the division and believe there is still an opportunity to win. Unfortunately it is the same mistakes and the same idiocy shown every day that shows a team that does not respect the manager, staff and most likely the entire organization. They are not flagrantly flaunting this but it's obvious and has been now for 2 years. Grifol is unable to get any more out of these players then I or any Soxtalk member. This season/window most likely ended after game 4 of the playoffs in 2021 but the division continues to get worse and it's there for anyone that wants it. Maybe it's Montoya, Guillen or Jirschele I don't know but what I do know is we are in the midst of year 22 of blowing a perfectly good opportunity to win a horseshit division. If you were a White Sox fan in the 90's you saw a good/great franchise lose to Oakland and then Cleveland who were powers.....then KW took over and not only are there are no AL Central powers but this franchise is in the toilet. I don't care if they go .500 and win the division, just get to the playoffs. No changes were made last year until it was too late, it's getting late again, maybe it already is but I don't think so. If they want to blow it up fine....but the idiot GM and incompetent manager need to be blown into the sun. Lynn showed yesterday that the talent is hiding under the rot of this organization. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 I firmly and vehemently disagree with the notion that this team is being dramatically held back by managing and that you can somehow see that because one starter had an excellent game against a team with its own offensive issues. 36 year olds who have lost fastball velocity but can still have an occasional good game aren’t being held back by their manager. This is just a plain old bad team. That doesn’t mean Pedro is any good, it just means that they’re a bad baseball team. I don’t care if it’s Bobby Cox, Joe Torre, Joe Maddon, or Kevin Cash. They’d still be bad. 7 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: I firmly and vehemently disagree with the notion that this team is being dramatically held back by managing and that you can somehow see that because one starter had an excellent game against a team with its own offensive issues. 36 year olds who have lost fastball velocity but can still have an occasional good game aren’t being held back by their manager. This is just a plain old bad team. That doesn’t mean Pedro is any good, it just means that they’re a bad baseball team. I don’t care if it’s Bobby Cox, Joe Torre, Joe Maddon, or Kevin Cash. They’d still be bad. OK, so who's responsible for the bad team? RICK FUCKIN HAHN. Pedro? Who cares. What does arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic do? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Firing anybody isn't going to help until there's new ownership. I don't think Grifol and the coaching staff are telling the players to swing at so many balls and hit the ball on the ground so much. At some point the players have to be accountable. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Just now, shago said: OK, so who's responsible for the bad team? RICK FUCKIN HAHN. Pedro? Who cares. What does arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic do? It might get me a better seat?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Just now, wegner said: It might get me a better seat?? Pretty sure you can buy a pretty good seat for nothing right now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 "Over the weekend he stated there was no plan for Monday's starting pitcher and that Anderson is the leadoff man....until the next day" This is nitpicking. That's how those situations should be handled until there is a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, wegner said: It might get me a better seat?? At the kiddie table? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted June 19, 2023 Author Share Posted June 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Balta1701 said: I firmly and vehemently disagree with the notion that this team is being dramatically held back by managing and that you can somehow see that because one starter had an excellent game against a team with its own offensive issues. 36 year olds who have lost fastball velocity but can still have an occasional good game aren’t being held back by their manager. This is just a plain old bad team. That doesn’t mean Pedro is any good, it just means that they’re a bad baseball team. I don’t care if it’s Bobby Cox, Joe Torre, Joe Maddon, or Kevin Cash. They’d still be bad. It is a bad baseball team that is being out played by other bad baseball teams. There seems to be zero direction for this team and organization. The talent is there, it is very flawed but it is there and compared to other organizations there is more of it. I did not think the Dodgers or Mariners were better then the Sox for those three game series. The manager is now showing as he is being pushed by the media and the situation is not improving that he is not qualified for the job. Although I am not certain if that matters. I know they are not firing him and sadly I am not certain anything changes this offseason. I view the White Sox as circling the drain until Jerry dies. Until he is dead and they sell I think they head toward being a $100M salary that is what it is and nobody will give a s%*# about them except for a handful of fans and there is nothing we can do about it. Grifol is clueless and is getting nothing out of this team. This is Hahn's guy and both should be escorted out of town 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted June 19, 2023 Author Share Posted June 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said: "Over the weekend he stated there was no plan for Monday's starting pitcher and that Anderson is the leadoff man....until the next day" This is nitpicking. That's how those situations should be handled until there is a change. He should not admit that going into the weekend they had no plan as to how to handle the pitching rotation. They are 11 games under .500 and are conceding the game tonight because they needed Scholtens to pitch this weekend because until Saturday not one bullpen arm could go more the one inning a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: The talent is there, it is very flawed but it is there and compared to other organizations there is more of it. We’ve been saying this for years, but it feels less and less true as time goes on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 This organization clearly has a systemic problem. The under performing doesn’t even stop at the MLB level, our minor league system can’t develop a decent prospect either. I can’t begin to guess what the problem could be, but it’s clearly beyond firing 1 or 2 people. The entire organization needs a cleansing top to bottom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Is this the only thing Hahn said today? Are there any other quotes from the press conference not Jerry's paid guy? What is Tim's status? Why didn't you (Hahn) bring up a reliever on Friday, and Scholtens to start today? Where have all the Fegan's gone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 You know I was thinking about that 2005 win and I remember being so excited when Peter Gammons said the White Sox did this the right way. Little did I know then that what he obviously must have meant was the right way is.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 30 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: He should not admit that going into the weekend they had no plan as to how to handle the pitching rotation. They are 11 games under .500 and are conceding the game tonight because they needed Scholtens to pitch this weekend because until Saturday not one bullpen arm could go more the one inning a game. Starting pitching depth comes from above him, but on top of that there's no reason to tip it off either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 31 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: It is a bad baseball team that is being out played by other bad baseball teams. There seems to be zero direction for this team and organization. The talent is there, it is very flawed but it is there and compared to other organizations there is more of it. I did not think the Dodgers or Mariners were better then the Sox for those three game series. The manager is now showing as he is being pushed by the media and the situation is not improving that he is not qualified for the job. Although I am not certain if that matters. I know they are not firing him and sadly I am not certain anything changes this offseason. I view the White Sox as circling the drain until Jerry dies. Until he is dead and they sell I think they head toward being a $100M salary that is what it is and nobody will give a s%*# about them except for a handful of fans and there is nothing we can do about it. Grifol is clueless and is getting nothing out of this team. This is Hahn's guy and both should be escorted out of town If you're looking at a team that has Betts, Freeman, and Smith in their lineup and Gonsolin and Kershaw in the rotation, and not thinking "They're quite a bit better than us", you're just wrong. And if you're also not noting that team was missing Urias, Lux, Syndergaard, Hudson, Treinen, Tracy Thompson, Pepiot, and the big ones - Buehler and May for TJS - you're missing a key part of the point. The White Sox are dramatically healthier than the Dodgers, one of the healthiest teams in the league like people demanded for years, and they're still no where near as good. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 16 minutes ago, wegner said: You know I was thinking about that 2005 win and I remember being so excited when Peter Gammons said the White Sox did this the right way. Little did I know then that what he obviously must have meant was the right way is.... Bah, the White Sox weren't the best run franchise in the big leagues under Kenny Williams, but they were quite good. They were one of the top 5 teams in wins in the 2000s, won 90 games 2 years in a row, would have gone to the playoffs almost every year except 2007 under the current format, they developed a lot of talent internally, and Kenny actually had big wins in both trades and free agency. It didn't always work, they also had big flops in both of those areas, they had years where they fell apart, and they developed an intolerable rift between management and coaching, but it wasn't bad and it wasn't lightning in a bottle. They were a decently run franchise, and decently run franchises sometimes put everything together. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 49 minutes ago, Snopek said: We’ve been saying this for years, but it feels less and less true as time goes on. This. I don’t think the talent is there. It never was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfaninfl Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) Okay, we have a bad team. Stating that is not the cure. The Sox need to let Grifol and Hahn go. The tone of this team is all wrong and has been since day 1. Otherwise, what are you saying? Every day I see the shuffling of the same players. No trades, no ‘hot seats’… just blah. I know it’s not even half of Grifol’s fault but for once(!), can this team put excellence on the field before all this other stuff? Send the message… otherwise, you are settling for mediocrity. This is why the team is in the shape it is. Need to expect excellence. If you don’t get it, find someone who will. It’s been this way since Ozzie left, honestly, from the minors on up. If I were a player, it would be hard to excel in such a blah environment. Excellence starts at the top, not with the players. Jerry, for the love of baseball, do something! Or maybe everyone is right and you are just fleecing this organization and its fans for everything you can before you go to other pastures. Edited June 19, 2023 by soxfaninfl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Imagine that Hahn is a multimillionaire driving this team into the ground 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 23 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said: Okay, we have a bad team. Stating that is not the cure. The Sox need to let Grifol go. The tone of this team is all wrong and has been since day 1. Otherwise, what are you saying? Every day I see the shuffling of the same players. No trades, no ‘hot seats’… just blah. I know it’s not even half of Grifol’s fault but for once(!), can this team put excellence on the field before all this other stuff? Send the message… otherwise, you are settling for mediocrity. This is why the team is in the shape it is. Need to expect excellence. If you don’t get it, find someone who will. It’s been this way since Ozzie left, honestly, from the minors on up. Time to try something else. There is unfortunately no solution to this that will make you happy. The White Sox will not be a good team for several years even if they do everything right. They are a bloody mess. They are a bad, expensive, old team at the big league level and their minor leagues are barren. Making a good speech or yelling motivating quotes will not change this. Fire Hahn, bring in someone better, let them pick their own coaches (I don’t care about Grifol), and fully start from scratch. Rip out all Hahn’s bad contracts, eat the money you have to, bring in as much talent as you can, improve the drafting and scouting and development and maybe by 2027 or 2028 the White Sox have a legitimate team if everything goes well. It’s that bad. And note, you say things have been bad since Ozzie was gone, with the exception of 2012 the other big change is that 2013 was Hahn’s first year. Not a coincidence/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfaninfl Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) I am not looking to be happy, just progress to a goal of getting better as an organization. Have to start somewhere. Somehow. Start by saying this is unacceptable. And I am not looking for fiery speeches. Looking for commitment, something this team severely lacks. Why do you think the team is in the condition it is? Edited June 19, 2023 by soxfaninfl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 22 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said: I am not looking to be happy, just progress to a goal of getting better as an organization. Have to start somewhere. Somehow. Start by saying this is unacceptable. And I am not looking for fiery speeches. Looking for commitment, something this team severely lacks. Why do you think the team is in the condition it is? Because Rick Hahn is terrible at all jobs other than convincing Jerry Reinsdorf that he’s fine. It’s literally that simple, when you have the worst GM in baseball this is how things look. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted June 20, 2023 Author Share Posted June 20, 2023 How is colas any worse then Burger and Frazier and if the answer is attitude that's a joke as just about every loser in this organization has a poor attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Just hire the AI. What’s the worst that can happen. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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