White Sox’ trade-deadline decisions will depend on ability to compete in playoffs, not just for AL Central crown

[chitownsportsfan]

WTF is he talking about? The club is on pace for 70 wins, does he live in reality? The only thing they are competing for is a top 5 draft pick.

[Y2Jimmy0]

8 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

That might be a solid argument if the Sox were in a stronger division. The winner of the Central division has no respect from the betting sportsbooks.

Currently as of today, the odds to win the 2023 World Series from BetRivers:

Braves             +475
Dodgers          +525
Rays                +550
Astros             +625
Rangers        +1200
Yankees        +1400
Blue Jays       +1600
Padres          +2100
Twins            +2200
White Sox  +15000

Ok so the Sox got hot and won the Central, they would still be the last seeded team in the playoffs and worst odds of teams to win the World Series. It's absolutely not worth losing out on being sellers at the trade deadline and attempting to improve this horrible baseball roster. 

 

They wouldn't be the last seed. They'd be the #3 seed and hosting the #6 seed at Guaranteed Rate Field 

[The Kids Can Play]

3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They wouldn't be the last seed. They'd be the #3 seed and hosting the #6 seed at Guaranteed Rate Field 

Yes I know that playoff seeding rule. My bad, I phrased my comment wrong. I was trying to say, relative to best chances to win the World Series. 

What I should have said and would be a fact is, the Sox would be the worst team in the field.

[Dick Allen]

14 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Reinforce what exactly? 

They basically will be down to Robert Cease and Kopech... 

 

Not a matter of reinforcing but tearing down completely. 

But Hahn will never acknowledge that publicly. 

Reinforcing mediocrity. That's Rick's specialty. This current roster has been bad for a far longer time than it was good. Even when it was good, it was short. They can't be this dumb. They have to know, don't they?

[T R U]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They wouldn't be the last seed. They'd be the #3 seed and hosting the #6 seed at Guaranteed Rate Field 

It doesn't matter, the White Sox or ANY AL Central team for that matter is not winning 4 straight series against very good teams no matter how hot they are at the time.

Were not talking about an 88-90 win team, this is going to be a bad team coming out of this division.

[Dick Allen]

They were already crying about the Sox "tough schedule" after the All Star break. Do playoff teams have everyone associated with them always point out stretches when they are playing good teams? If you can't beat a good team, how are you going to do in the playoffs?

[wegner]

6 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I actually disagree with this. If you get in the playoffs, you can win the title. Any baseball team can go on a heater and win a title. Getting in is still the hard part. 

I have a tendency to agree with you. I know that team in 2020 had a bunch of flaws and not much starting pitching, but if they would've got past Oakland, you really never know how far they would've gone. Abreu could've got hot and carried them.

[wegner]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

WTF is he talking about? The club is on pace for 70 wins, does he live in reality? The only thing they are competing for is a top 5 draft pick.

C'mon man....they could be 4 1/2 games out after tonight.

[South Side Hit Men]

46 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Reinforcing mediocrity. That's Rick's specialty. This current roster has been bad for a far longer time than it was good. Even when it was good, it was short. They can't be this dumb. They have to know, don't they?

Getting to the level of mediocrity would be a major upgrade over the Hahn era, and something Hahn is incapable of pulling off.

The Sox are a bottom five abysmal organization under Rick Hahn, and will never rise above that under Rick Hahn GM or if he is promoted to KW's role.

If Hahn and the Sox went 90-72 the next seven years, they would still be 3 games under .500 during his tenure.

 

[bmags]

Hahn gonna go all out and trade TA, Giolito ...but trade for bullpen.

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Reinforcing mediocrity. That's Rick's specialty. This current roster has been bad for a far longer time than it was good. Even when it was good, it was short. They can't be this dumb. They have to know, don't they?

I legitimately think they think the roster is above average. They live in delusionville.  

[Snopek]

3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I legitimately think they think the roster is above average. They live in delusionville.  

They seem to zero in on like the 90th percentile outcome of each player and plan around that. I understand the importance of identifying the ceilings of players, but I get a sense that they rely on them reaching those ceilings. Hence the no depth, no backup plans, etc. Instead all you have to do is both pan out and stay healthy. And since there's technically no way to know that it won't happen, they get to keep believing it will. Great fun.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

It makes no sense to not sell. 

[maggliopipe]

I do wonder if the blowback following the '97 White Flag trade has any bearing on how they handle this deadline. Based on these Hahn quotes, no, but at that time they were like 3.5 games out of first, traded two studs, and heard all about it for years. Having said that, the obvious move this year is to sell sell sell, unfortunately. Hopefully JR still doesn't care about public perception and it happens. 

[flavum]

4 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

It makes no sense to not sell. 

Really hoping for 2-5 the next 7 to be 33-48 at the 81 game mark. Need the Twins to be at least 40-41 then too. That should solidify the Sox being sellers. Sox aren’t going to be 7 games better than the Twins after that, even if they go 4-3 in the remaining head to head games. And going 5-2 or better is a pipe dream. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

I hope they go on a 14 game losing streak or something so they can't delude themselves. 

 

And there's really no way they can justify building around Cease/Kopech/Robert next year either. Those guys should be traded too. 

I wouldn't trade them until the winter though. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

9 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

I hope they go on a 14 game losing streak or something so they can't delude themselves. 

 

And there's really no way they can justify building around Cease/Kopech/Robert next year either. Those guys should be traded too. 

I wouldn't trade them until the winter though. 

Robert at least has like 5 years or something. Cease would be selling low and idk what Kopech gets you back, and you still need some arms.  I'd hold onto all 3 unless someone blew your socks off (not likely)

[hankchifan]

17 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Change in tune from Hahn's late May press conference.

Sounds like there is resignation that this season is over after losing 4 of 6 out west, not to mentioned continued attrition with the roster.

Vinnie Duber providing the 411.

https://allchgo.com/2023/06/19/white-sox-trade-deadline-decisions-will-depend-on-ability-to-compete-in-playoffs-not-just-for-al-central-crown/

Two Hahn quotes:

 

 

Laying the ground for a major salary dump, as there is no realistic chance that the Sox will make an impact in October.

[Lip Man 1]

2 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Laying the ground for a major salary dump, as there is no realistic chance that the Sox will make an impact in October.

And when it does happen (as well it should) Hahn will blame everything but himself and the incompetent front office. 

[Tony]

8 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I actually disagree with this. If you get in the playoffs, you can win the title. Any baseball team can go on a heater and win a title. Getting in is still the hard part. 

This is obviously true in the factual sense of "You can't win a World Series without making the playoffs." 

But as others have mentioned, including Hahn....the AL Central can't seem to have anyone that wants to play above .500 at this point. How is the winner of the AL Central going to stack up against Texas, Tampa, Baltimore, or the Braves, Phillies, etc...? Yes, getting to the playoffs is the goal, because you can't reach your ultimate goal without doing that first, but I can at least give a small tip of the hat to Hahn for his quotes above, as he's telling the fan base "Listen, we got to the playoffs in 2020 and 2021, and we all saw what happened. A First Round exit isn't saving anyones job, that's not the goal, and if we think that's all this team is capable of, we're not investing more resources into this bunch because that isn't what we're shooting for." 

Obviously that is received much more positive if he wasn't absolutely terrible at his job and got the Sox into this mess, but I do agree with his sentiment given how the standings look, as well as the performance of the 2023 White Sox. 

[bmags]

8 minutes ago, Tony said:

This is obviously true in the factual sense of "You can't win a World Series without making the playoffs." 

But as others have mentioned, including Hahn....the AL Central can't seem to have anyone that wants to play above .500 at this point. How is the winner of the AL Central going to stack up against Texas, Tampa, Baltimore, or the Braves, Phillies, etc...? Yes, getting to the playoffs is the goal, because you can't reach your ultimate goal without doing that first, but I can at least give a small tip of the hat to Hahn for his quotes above, as he's telling the fan base "Listen, we got to the playoffs in 2020 and 2021, and we all saw what happened. A First Round exit isn't saving anyones job, that's not the goal, and if we think that's all this team is capable of, we're not investing more resources into this bunch because that isn't what we're shooting for." 

Obviously that is received much more positive if he wasn't absolutely terrible at his job and got the Sox into this mess, but I do agree with his sentiment given how the standings look, as well as the performance of the 2023 White Sox. 

I think my bet would be that at the end of the year the winner of the ALC ends up with a normal, respectable record. 88 wins or so. probably CLE finding some otherworldly pitching, hotter hitting, and a weak ass division to beat up on. Like usual. I think it's highly unlikely we send a division winner with only 81-83 wins.

[baseball_gal_aly]

15 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Robert at least has like 5 years or something. Cease would be selling low and idk what Kopech gets you back, and you still need some arms.  I'd hold onto all 3 unless someone blew your socks off (not likely)

Robert signed 8 years when he came up. He has 4.5 years left on that deal. He's about at max value rn. 

I'd wait until this winter for Cease and maybe hang on to Kopech until the 2024 TDL when he's more established.  I think Cease will pitch better to close out the year and have the 2nd best stats of his career. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by baseballgalaly

[baseball_gal_aly]

Just now, bmags said:

I think my bet would be that at the end of the year the winner of the ALC ends up with a normal, respectable record. 88 wins or so. probably CLE finding some otherworldly pitching, hotter hitting, and a weak ass division to beat up on. Like usual. I think it's highly unlikely we send a division winner with only 81-83 wins.

I think it's very possible the ALC winner has 79 wins. 

[bmags]

I actually don't really want them to sell. Hahn is terrible at it. We are extremely likely to get a Q.O. for Giolito. And it's more fun for me that jerry pays players salaries than players are traded for s%*# returns to save money.

[baseball_gal_aly]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I actually don't really want them to sell. Hahn is terrible at it. We are extremely likely to get a Q.O. for Giolito. And it's more fun for me that jerry pays players salaries than players are traded for s%*# returns to save money.

They need to fire Hahn and Grifol first. Then they can sell. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by baseballgalaly