Now injured: Crochet

[Chisoxfn]

8 hours ago, bmags said:

shoulder inflammation. 15 days.

 

Has he pitched since that Dodger game where his velo was down? 

[Chisoxfn]

8 hours ago, 2Deep said:

He's not dead yet.  Coming off TJ, this was always going to be a caution year.

Get him healthy with some innings under his belt for next year

He should spend some time in minors and bring him up later in the year and try and turn him into our closer starting next year. Ideally you have a few years of him dealing and / or turn him into something you can churn at next deadline for talent. 

[greg775]

No offense to baseball, but do any of you think the sport is soon to be extinct because of injuries? We've got zillions of players nobody's ever heard of just filling in for injuries players. So please answer, is baseball on the road to extinction?

Other points to consider. ...

-- Games are faster now which is good.

-- No pitchers in this new modern era will ever make the Hall again. Too many injuries will keep the K totals out of Hall range, Nobody cares about W/L anymore or ERA, so there are virtually no more Hall of Fame candidates toeing the slab.

-- No stolen base intrigue any more. Only Hall of Fame stat of interest will be HR hitters but careers are starting to die in early 30s so no longevity means no Hall of Fame.

Without heroes ... is baseball dying? When will it officially be dead or at least irrlelevant? Peace out.

All the Sox seemingly do is get hurt.

Edited June 21, 2023 by greg775

[South Side Hit Men]

Just now, greg775 said:

No offense to baseball, but do any of you think the sport is soon to be extinct because of injuries? We've got zillions of players nobody's ever heard of just filling in for injuries players. So please answer, is baseball on the road to extinction?

Other points to consider. ...

-- Games are faster now which is good.

-- No pitchers in this new modern era will ever make the Hall again. Too many injuries will keep the K totals out of Hall range, Nobody cares about W/L anymore or ERA, so there are virtually no more Hall of Fame candidates toeing the slab.

-- No stolen base intrigue any more. Only Hall of Fame stat of interest will be HR hitters but careers are starting to die in early 30s so no longevity means no Hall of Fame.

Without heroes ... is baseball dying? When will it officially be dead or at least irrlelevant? Peace out.

Baseball is dying because the owners have worked the past few decades to maximize revenue per attendee. Owners have shut down dozens of minor league markets, by and large moved all games to a pay cable/satellite model, rendered the regular season near meaningless for most teams by having a 12 team playoff farce mostly if not all on cable/pay TV, cancelled the 2020 season and tried the same with their latest lockout. Can't even walk up to the ticket window, vendor or concession stand with cash, excluding people who were able to attend in the past. 

World Series # of Americans, Average # of World Series Viewers & TV Rating

• 1973 207M Americans 30.7M & 30.7 Oakland 4-3 over New York Mets
• 1983 230M Americans 23.4M & 23.4 Baltimore 4-1 over Philadelphia
• 1993 259M Americans 24.7M & 17.3 Toronto 4-2 over Philadelphia
• 2003 291M Americans 20.1M & 12.8 Florida 4-2 over New York Yankees
• 2013 319M Americans 15.0M & 8.9 Boston 4-2 over Saint Louis
• 2022 338M Americans 11.8M & 6.1 Houston 4-2 over Philadelphia

[Lip Man 1]

Grifol was quoted as saying this is a "precautionary" move by the White Sox that he's only sore and they are taking it safe since he had TJS.

If you believe that I've got a bridge in NYC I can sell you.

 

[Balta1701]

6 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Grifol was quoted as saying this is a "precautionary" move by the White Sox that he's only sore and they are taking it safe since he had TJS.

If you believe that I've got a bridge in NYC I can sell you.

 

Shoulders in pitchers are so complicated that I wouldn’t ever bet either way when there’s pain. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s back in 15 days and they say he’s fine, I wouldn’t be surprised if the articles  6 weeks from now say he’s still having pain and they don’t know why.

But;, the fact that soreness in muscles that weren’t used at full power for a year is likely is why no other team in baseball would ramp a guy up to bring a full time big league pitcher only 13 months after the surgery. It’s bonkers.

[The Kids Can Play]

11 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

He should spend some time in minors and bring him up later in the year and try and turn him into our closer starting next year. Ideally you have a few years of him dealing and / or turn him into something you can churn at next deadline for talent. 

He definitely should go back to Charlotte. In fact if they didn't bring him back at all, I would be fine with that too. Maybe that's even a more sound decision. 

They also need to slow down his ramp up program. He is not only dealing with coming off TJS, but now a shoulder injury, that for a pitcher needs to be taken seriously. 

I would rather slow the pace down and get him back for the start of the 2024 season healthy and hopefully back to his early rookie form.

[Timmy U]

How long has he been sore? How shorthanded were they Sunday and Monday? The way this team deals with injuries -- not putting injured guys on the IL for days and weeks -- and then rushes players back before they're ready, it's scandalous. They're lucky they're not getting sued once a week.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Timmy U said:

How long has he been sore? How shorthanded were they Sunday and Monday? The way this team deals with injuries -- not putting injured guys on the IL for days and weeks -- and then rushes players back before they're ready, it's scandalous. They're lucky they're not getting sued once a week.

I can't believe the MLBPA hasn't looked into this matter already. 

[JoeCredeYes]

12 hours ago, greg775 said:

No offense to baseball, but do any of you think the sport is soon to be extinct because of injuries? We've got zillions of players nobody's ever heard of just filling in for injuries players. So please answer, is baseball on the road to extinction?

Other points to consider. ...

-- Games are faster now which is good.

-- No pitchers in this new modern era will ever make the Hall again. Too many injuries will keep the K totals out of Hall range, Nobody cares about W/L anymore or ERA, so there are virtually no more Hall of Fame candidates toeing the slab.

-- No stolen base intrigue any more. Only Hall of Fame stat of interest will be HR hitters but careers are starting to die in early 30s so no longevity means no Hall of Fame.

Without heroes ... is baseball dying? When will it officially be dead or at least irrlelevant? Peace out.

All the Sox seemingly do is get hurt.

I think MLB needs to take a serious look at the "Driveline" school and those like it and what they are doing to pitchers.  They claim they work in proper mechanics, but the weighted ball training and focus on velocity and spin probably has a correlation to increased arm injuries.  The flip side to that argument is modern medicine has allowed a larger swath of players to continue playing, whereas back before modern TJS if you blew out your elbow you were done for life, so only the genetic freaks were able to have long sustained careers.  Now we have more talent, but more injury prone players making the bigs. 

[South Side Hit Men]

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

All right so I couldn't take the time to write this on the phone. I can't get over how unbelievably nuts the White Sox's treatment of this pitcher has been. Let's just spell all this out.

1. This pitcher has played for the University of Tennessee in 2018-2019. He threw 63 then 65 innings in those seasons, respectively, with 1/3 of his outings being starts. He is a lefty throwing 100 mph. He throws 3 innings in the 2020 season due to COVID shutdowns, and thus he has thrown 130 innings in 3 years. The White Sox draft this guy 11th overall, giving him a multi-million dollar bonus. They take this valuable pitcher who hasn't thrown in a year, send him to their training camp site, and immediately bring him up into a big league playoff race where they make the 11th pick in the draft into a middle reliever/2nd lefty. He is put into a playoff game and leaves with an elbow injury.

2. This pitcher comes into 2021, coming off an injury, with a dramatic velocity drop, averaging 97 mph rather than 100. The White Sox ignored this velocity drop and put him back in the bullpen for a year. They turn their 11th pick into the draft into a middle reliever, burning a year pre-arbitration in the bullpen. 

3. The pitcher, unsurprisingly, hurts his elbow. When he comes back, he is brought back to the big leagues only 13 1/2 months after Tommy John Surgery - most pitchers who have this surgery have at least several months longer than this. His minor league rehab stint is...6 innings. He is immediately put back into the big league bullpen, where he throws terribly for a month without being sent down or given a break, and then he is put out to pitch on a day where his velocity is clearly down to the low 90s. He isn't pulled out of the game and takes the loss. He is revealed to have been pitching with shoulder pain, and they give him a cortisone shot.

 

Just read through this, can anyone actually believe this? It's controversial to draft closers in the first round, this team took a #11 pick with very little work and immediately shoved him into the bullpen as a middle reliever. Teams take great efforts to avoid pushing their draftees too far too fast, the White Sox had this guy in a playoff clinching game after throwing 9 innings in 2020. Teams get really nervous if guys show velocity drops, the White Sox had no issues with it. Teams are careful with guys coming off of Tommy John Surgery, the White Sox said "we need our middle reliever now!".

If I had to guess, I'd say that literally every one of the other 29 teams would have treated this guy differently at each of those three decision points. If anyone develops multiverse travel, I'd love a trip to a universe where someone else drafted this guy, because this just seems nuts when you go through it. 

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

All right so I couldn't take the time to write this on the phone. I can't get over how unbelievably nuts the White Sox's treatment of this pitcher has been. Let's just spell all this out.

1. This pitcher has played for the University of Tennessee in 2018-2019. He threw 63 then 65 innings in those seasons, respectively, with 1/3 of his outings being starts. He is a lefty throwing 100 mph. He throws 3 innings in the 2020 season due to COVID shutdowns, and thus he has thrown 130 innings in 3 years. The White Sox draft this guy 11th overall, giving him a multi-million dollar bonus. They take this valuable pitcher who hasn't thrown in a year, send him to their training camp site, and immediately bring him up into a big league playoff race where they make the 11th pick in the draft into a middle reliever/2nd lefty. He is put into a playoff game and leaves with an elbow injury.

2. This pitcher comes into 2021, coming off an injury, with a dramatic velocity drop, averaging 97 mph rather than 100. The White Sox ignored this velocity drop and put him back in the bullpen for a year. They turn their 11th pick into the draft into a middle reliever, burning a year pre-arbitration in the bullpen. 

3. The pitcher, unsurprisingly, hurts his elbow. When he comes back, he is brought back to the big leagues only 13 1/2 months after Tommy John Surgery - most pitchers who have this surgery have at least several months longer than this. His minor league rehab stint is...6 innings. He is immediately put back into the big league bullpen, where he throws terribly for a month without being sent down or given a break, and then he is put out to pitch on a day where his velocity is clearly down to the low 90s. He isn't pulled out of the game and takes the loss. He is revealed to have been pitching with shoulder pain, and they give him a cortisone shot.

Just read through this, can anyone actually believe this? It's controversial to draft closers in the first round, this team took a #11 pick with very little work and immediately shoved him into the bullpen as a middle reliever. Teams take great efforts to avoid pushing their draftees too far too fast, the White Sox had this guy in a playoff clinching game after throwing 9 innings in 2020. Teams get really nervous if guys show velocity drops, the White Sox had no issues with it. Teams are careful with guys coming off of Tommy John Surgery, the White Sox said "we need our middle reliever now!".

If I had to guess, I'd say that literally every one of the other 29 teams would have treated this guy differently at each of those three decision points. If anyone develops multiverse travel, I'd love a trip to a universe where someone else drafted this guy, because this just seems nuts when you go through it. 

And Hahn was there every step of the way. Game 3 Oakland was Hahn's plan. Tony may have pushed Hahn around, but in the end Hahn approved of the 2021 plan. Pedro isn't pushing anyone around, so Hahn led the 2023 plan unequivocally.

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

And Hahn was there every step of the way. Game 3 Oakland was Hahn's plan. Tony may have pushed Hahn around, but in the end Hahn approved of the 2021 plan. Pedro isn't pushing anyone around, so Hahn led the 2023 plan unequivocally.

That's a great point. Item 1 is Renteria, Item 2 is LaRussa, Item 3 is Pedro. A baffling and risky decision that no other franchise in baseball would make, one of them made under each coach! 

Someone really hates this player.

[GreenSox]

They  are treating Crochet like he's a 34 year old journeyman middle reliever.
That's not fair to Crochet.
It makes me sad.

They did a similar thing in 2016.  They used their 2nd  first round pick for Burdi (who was only a reliever) just a week or  so after trading for a broken down Shields.  Lesss than 2 weeks after being drafted, he pitches, 1 game in Az, then 2 weeks in high A, 6 weeks in AA, then AAA then injured.  Of course,  in the middle of all of that, they announce a major rebuild. 

Atrocious. 

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

They  are treating Crochet like he's a 34 year old journeyman middle reliever.
That's not fair to Crochet.
It makes me sad.

They did a similar thing in 2016.  They used their 2nd  first round pick for Burdi (who was only a reliever) just a week or  so after trading for a broken down Shields.  Lesss than 2 weeks after being drafted, he pitches, 1 game in Az, then 2 weeks in high A, 6 weeks in AA, then AAA then injured.  Of course,  in the middle of all of that, they announce a major rebuild. 

Atrocious. 

It goes all the way back to Sale, Ring and Poreda. 

Sale worked out for the Sox, obviously...but that's five relievers drafted in the first round to fill immediate needs at the big league level. 

I bet there's not a single other team to draft that many (collegiate)  relievers that high in the draft...over such a time frame.