White Sox last in the MLB in OBP (.292)

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

When I was a kid my dad must of taught me some pretty advanced, s%*# since the White Sox players can't seem to get it. When he was a kid he was on some all star ream coached by Rogers  Hornsby who hit .400 in the major leagues. My dad adapted his philosophy. Always look for patterns.99 percent of the time you sit on a fastball. With no strikes make the ball be in a small box you really like. With 1 strike the box gets a little bigger. With 2 strike you have to be defensive. If you're hitting too many groundballs focus on the bottom of the ball. You are by default, working counts.Too much air, focus on the top. Semns pretty simple. Sox hitters go up there flailing away like the just put $1 in their local batting cages. There was other stuff like using the batters box as a tool, but that was the just of it.

Yea I hear a lot about pitch recognition. But most of the time it's recognizing pitch sequencing, knowing what the pitcher throws and when he's likely to throw it. You have all the info you need. Rogers Hornsby didn't have all that info. Professional hitter not flailers.

You also have to know how they are going to pitch you.  SO you can tell yourself ok here comes a high FB lay off it or here comes the breaking ball outside take it.  They hang it you bang it.

[Mightygunja]

The Sox were 5th in baseball in obp and walks taken  in 2021 with essentially the same hitters.  What happened to them?

[zisk]

On 6/25/2023 at 11:39 AM, Timmy U said:

It is no coincidence that the Sox have lagged in data-driven analytics and that their opponents have outcompeted them.  There is a book on this entire group of hitters: throw them sliders out of the zone. They will swing. Rinse. Repeat.  I look forward to Colson Montgomery cuz he’s a little different, but Sosa, Colas, Popeye, and to some extent Ramos all fit that mold. Jury is out on Burke because his K rate is better than expected, but they are building another generation of the exact same thing. That is why I am vehemently opposed to them drafting Yohandy Morales.

You're wrong about Ramos, but the rest are all cut from the same cloth.

[T R U]

27 minutes ago, Mightygunja said:

The Sox were 5th in baseball in obp and walks taken  in 2021 with essentially the same hitters.  What happened to them?

An entire group of players don't all just lose it at the same time. This is an organizational issue. Coaching, Philosophy, Development, etc.

The culture in this franchise sucks. It needs an enema.

[The Kids Can Play]

23 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yea I hear a lot about pitch recognition. But most of the time it's recognizing pitch sequencing, knowing what the pitcher throws and when he's likely to throw it. You have all the info you need. Rogers Hornsby didn't have all that info. Professional hitter not flailers.

You also have to know how they are going to pitch you.  SO you can tell yourself ok here comes a high FB lay off it or here comes the breaking ball outside take it.  They hang it you bang it.

However at some point the Sox hitters also need to also understand what stats the opposing pitchers are looking at when they play the Sox and how they pitch to them:

0-Swing% - 30th

Swing % - 30th

Zone % - # of pitches in the zone - total pitches - 29th, which means least strikes thrown to them.

Ball % -  # of pitches thrown to hitters outside zone - 30th - which means most balls thrown to them outside the zone.

F-Strike % - 29th - swinging at first pitches.

This has been going on for years on all Sox teams. It's only going to change when we get a new front office that employs people from the outside, that came from a club where they teach these aspects in the minors, to teach how to be more patient and get better counts, which in turn will lead to more walks or better counts to hit the ball for productive power.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

However at some point the Sox hitters also need to also understand what stats the opposing pitchers are looking at when they play the Sox and how they pitch to them:

0-Swing% - 30th

Swing % - 30th

Zone % - # of pitches in the zone - total pitches - 29th, which means least strikes thrown to them.

Ball % -  # of pitches thrown to hitters outside zone - 30th - which means most balls thrown to them outside the zone.

F-Strike % - 29th - swinging at first pitches.

This has been going on for years on all Sox teams. It's only going to change when we get a new front office that employs people from the outside, that came from a club where they teach these aspects in the minors, to teach how to be more patient and get better counts, which in turn will lead to more walks or better counts to hit the ball for productive power.

Thats what I was talking about. Pitch sequencing. If they swing at crap the sequences are going to be crap until you prove you wont swing at crap.

[Tony]

9 hours ago, Mightygunja said:

The Sox were 5th in baseball in obp and walks taken  in 2021 with essentially the same hitters.  What happened to them?

Sports, but baseball especially, is a pendulum. Adjustments are made between hitters and pitchers, and advanced scouting and technology have come a very long way the last 15 years. Most of the league has caught up. 
 

The Sox…have not. 

[South Side Hit Men]

21 minutes ago, Tony said:

Sports, but baseball especially, is a pendulum. Adjustments are made between hitters and pitchers, and advanced scouting and technology have come a very long way the last 15 years. Most of the league has caught up. 
 

The Sox…have not. 

The best new managerial prospect, Joe Espada, who wasn't even interviewed by the pathetic White Sox in 2020 looked at this shitshow in 2022 and said, hard pass, I'll stay bench coach in 2023.

[zisk]

How about trading Moncada and Jimenez to Rockies for Kris Bryant and Palmquist. Time to shake this morbid bunch of hacks up a little.

[MikeKreevich]

Lots of talk on here of removing GM and manager.  Why no talk of replacing hitting coach?

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, zisk said:

How about trading Moncada and Jimenez to Rockies for Kris Bryant and Palmquist. Time to shake this morbid bunch of hacks up a little.

Kris Bryant has 5 years and $131 million remaining on his deal - after this season. Youd be taking on $140 million if you traded for him at the deadline. Moncada and Eloy have about $42 million remaining after August 1. I am too lazy to look up Palmquist but I struggle to think he’s worth $100 million.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, MikeKreevich said:

Lots of talk on here of removing GM and manager.  Why no talk of replacing hitting coach?

The hitting coach has been here 3 months. Yes things are clearly worse under this staff, but who hired these hitting coaches? 

[harkness99]

terrible offense this year.. but this losing approach has been festering for a least a decade.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, zisk said:

How about trading Moncada and Jimenez to Rockies for Kris Bryant and Palmquist. Time to shake this morbid bunch of hacks up a little.

MLB Trade Values:

Bryant + Palmquist = Negative $118.3M

Moncada + Eloy = Negative $20M

Rockies would need to eat Benintendi’s deal as well ($20.7M Negative) and include these minor league players to make it fair:

• 2B Amador $24.2M
• OF Fernandez $14.6M
• C Romo $13.1M
• OF Veen $12.2M
• RHP Vargas $7.8M
• SS Bernabel $5.0M

That’s the value of eating really bad contract money. That’s also why the Sox won’t be getting much beyond a bag of dicks at the deadline, because Jerry will be looking for teams to eat contracts, not spend prospects.

Not to mention the fact Hahn is involved, doesn’t know WTF he is doing.

[whitesoxfan99]

21 hours ago, Mightygunja said:

The Sox were 5th in baseball in obp and walks taken  in 2021 with essentially the same hitters.  What happened to them?

Abreu left, Grandal got old and Moncada is hurt and bad and Anderson sucks now.  They also had guys on the bench that year that took a fair amount of walks which isn't really the case now.  Basically, the guys who took a ton of walks that year are gone or bad now and then Anderson had a batting average driven OBP but he has no power now either because of injury or age. 

[Boopa1219]

13 hours ago, MikeKreevich said:

Lots of talk on here of removing GM and manager.  Why no talk of replacing hitting coach?

See Luis Robert, Andrew Benintendi and Jake Burger. Grandal is having a solid year too.

The problem is the profile of the players the Sox have acquired. Lots of guys who can’t control the zone, who swing a lot, who have no plate discipline and who hit a lot of ground balls. This is a veteran roster and a lot of these guys are set in their ways, Anderson and Andrus immediately come to mind.

A complete overhaul of the roster is needed.
 

[Chick Mercedes]

On 6/25/2023 at 10:48 AM, MikeKreevich said:

Why is no one calling for Jos'e Castro's head?

We tired

[Balta1701]

34 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

See Luis Robert, Andrew Benintendi and Jake Burger. Grandal is having a solid year too.